Week 11: Raiders vs. Bengals - here kitty kitty

[oakdb36]

2 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

+1 When teams are blowing it all up, they're often starting with nothing.

We'd be starting with a franchise LT in place and a pair of very good DEs. These are some of the most important positions in the sport, and theoretically it should be simpler to build around them.

We can rebuild around them but not on a quick fix. They are still young.

[Darbsk]

17 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

The offense a new QB would step into.

Might even trade Waller while he has good value. Let Moreau get an opportunity to start and see if he can be a building block worth a 2nd contract. Waller is turning 30 next year.

I think if we were to go that route keeping Waller might be a good investment for a new QB. You don't want to chuck in a new rookie QB and have no weapons and only a LT, that's something like the Jets do then wonder why said rookie looks terrible and gets the confidence beat out of him.

If we went rebuild route, I think getting a stop gap QB in place for a year (assuming we trade Carr for assets) whilst we add to the Offence could be sensible. We basically have Waller and Renfrow as reliable support. None of the others produce consistently (Edwards, Jones) or stay healthy (Jacobs). We've also only got one reliable Olineman in Miller so it's a terrible situation to throw a young QB into. If we're thinking of getting a new rookie QB in then we absolutely have to give him something to work with and protect him or you're just going to Darnold him IMO.

 

[oakdb36]

10 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I think if we were to go that route keeping Waller might be a good investment for a new QB. You don't want to chuck in a new rookie QB and have no weapons and only a LT, that's something like the Jets do then wonder why said rookie looks terrible and gets the confidence beat out of him.

If we went rebuild route, I think getting a stop gap QB in place for a year (assuming we trade Carr for assets) whilst we add to the Offence could be sensible. We basically have Waller and Renfrow as reliable support. None of the others produce consistently (Edwards, Jones) or stay healthy (Jacobs). We've also only got one reliable Olineman in Miller so it's a terrible situation to throw a young QB into. If we're thinking of getting a new rookie QB in then we absolutely have to give him something to work with and protect him or you're just going to Darnold him IMO.

 

Agree and that's what the 2022 offseason should be about. Adding pieces to surround a new QB in 2023. The Waller thing is just that due to age he might not be playing at that level for much longer. I can also understand keeping him to help the new QB, even if it's not a long term solution.

But it's probably because i think Moreau could be a good starting TE if given the opportunity.

Edited November 22, 2021 by oakdb36

[Darbsk]

4 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Agree and that's what the 2022 offseason should be about. Adding pieces to surround a new QB in 2023. The Waller thing is just that due to age he might not be playing at that level for much longer. I can also understand keeping him to help the new QB, even if it's not a long term solution.

But it's probably because i think Moreau could be a good starting TE if given the opportunity.

Moreau looks a really solid player and you may be right, he might blossom if given more opportunity. So long as we don't just go out and drop a rookie into the mess! I think 2023 is the year to aim for if we're going down that route.

I can't believe we're likely heading into yet another rebuild...... 😔

[big_palooka]

17 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I can't believe we're likely heading into yet another rebuild...... 😔

I think you've had to have built something in order to have a re-build. This feels like more of the same the last 2 decades. At least there is some legit talent on the team now. 

[Darbsk]

Just now, big_palooka said:

I think you've had to have built something in order to have a re-build. This feels like more of the same the last 2 decades. At least there is some legit talent on the team now. 

Well, we seemed to have built a house of cards that is all falling down 😂

 

[oakdb36]

1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

Well, we seemed to have built a house of cards that is all falling down 😂

 

Gruden built a strong offensive system to maximize the players. He never got the red zone offense to work well but now that he's gone, it's even worse. But the offense issue isn't red zone offense now, it can't even get to the red zone. 3rd down% is the worst it has been since 2014. They were top 10 the last 2 years. To be fair, Olson isn't even an average OC, he's a terrible one.

[oakdb36]

Jacobs + Drake = 14 carries for 60 yards, 4.3/carry. Why tf don't you run it more instead of those ridiculous short passing plays?

[Darbsk]

20 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Gruden built a strong offensive system to maximize the players. He never got the red zone offense to work well but now that he's gone, it's even worse. But the offense issue isn't red zone offense now, it can't even get to the red zone. 3rd down% is the worst it has been since 2014. They were top 10 the last 2 years. To be fair, Olson isn't even an average OC, he's a terrible one.

I can kind of see what you're saying here, but what is the OL built to maximise because it isn't Pass Protection or Run Blocking by the seems of it. Where is this supposed depth at WR as we're only down Ruggs? 

I did see the vision whilst we had Ruggs for the first few weeks and it seemed to be taking shape but we still had so many holes. Also the 'vision' on D was totally abandoned after being all-time franchise bad and it's only this year it's had any semblance of decency about it. I think given the resources, @big_palooka is right, we haven't built a heck of a lot really........

[RaidersAreOne]

Glad I didn't watch this one.

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

Trade Carr for picks. Sign a stopgap, install a system and draft a QB in 2023. 2022 is another losing season.

Let mariota play then draft a rookie qb to sit a year and learn 

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 hours ago, Nightmare said:

I realize that perfectly well. You can tell teams don't respect our deep threat now with Ruggs out. Jackson just isn't on the same level and teams can sit underneath and try to limit Waller and Renfrow.

That doesn't excuse Bryan Edwards getting no targets in a game. There's just no logical reason for that.

I like Edwards and agree that he should be targeted.  It's hard to know why he wasn't targeted without the footage of him on every route he ran.  

[oakdb36]

40 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I can kind of see what you're saying here, but what is the OL built to maximise because it isn't Pass Protection or Run Blocking by the seems of it. Where is this supposed depth at WR as we're only down Ruggs? 

I did see the vision whilst we had Ruggs for the first few weeks and it seemed to be taking shape but we still had so many holes. Also the 'vision' on D was totally abandoned after being all-time franchise bad and it's only this year it's had any semblance of decency about it. I think given the resources, @big_palooka is right, we haven't built a heck of a lot really........

I said the system. Didn't mention the players. A system is meant to get the most of what you got. If there are weaknesses, you find a way to work around that. Everything is falling down now because Greg Olson can't work around anything. His answer is deploying the same offense he always has.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

14 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Another uneducated fan spouting off trash.  

It's Carr's fault because our HC was fired, our most explosive WR and only legit deep threat is in jail and has been replaced with flat out garbage, all of our 1st round picks over the last few years are bums, can't sign a quality FA if our life depended on it, our Oline is garbage, we can't stop the run or tackle and all of our coaches are flat out terrible.  Our D has reverted to their old self and the team has flat out quit.  The season is over and you want to blame Carr.  You guys are seriously as dense as they come...

 

I’m 50/50 whether Carr stays or goes. However, I think if there’s a complete rebuild, I think Carr deserves to go to a better situation to show he can be a winner with a team with a better roster. It would be good to have a different QB and a fresh start for him and the Raiders. This of course is just my opinion.

[oakdb36]

Denver re-signed Sutton and Patrick and will be going after Rodgers/Wilson this offseason. We need to accept we won't do anything next year and plan for the future.