Jump to content

Week 11: Raiders vs. Bengals - here kitty kitty


big_palooka

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You have to understand my point and that is we should not move on from Carr without a legit upgrade in place.  Similar to what KC did with Mahomes/Smith or Rogers/Farve.  

Let's say that we clean house an hire a new GM.  He trades Carr to the Bears, Saints, Packers etc. (teams with quality talent). Carr takes them to the playoffs and our new GM does not have a replacement in place or signs a bum like Dalton as a stop gap and is banking on finding his replacement via the draft. 

If Carr has success and our drafted Qb is a bust, odds suggest that most 1st round QB's are big time busts or downgrades over Carr the optics of a move like that will be catastrophic and will lead to that new GM being fired in two to three years.  Hence another rebuild.... Rinse and repeat until we find stability at QB.  

As you have pointed out that Carr is not the reason we are being held back, he is one of the bright spots on a roster devoid of talent.  This is not a coaching staff or roster that will allow a young rookie QB to flourish.  Terrible Oline and D, no run game and bottom tier WR's across the board.  I would venture to say that TLaw has similar to if not better O weapons than we have and he is not playing well in Jax.  He is a "generational talent" and is looking below average because of terrible coaching being thrust onto a team that is not ready for a rookie QB.  That is a similar situation to what we have in LV with no talent and constant turnover at the HC position. 

I am all for drafting a replacement and hopefully we can find one over the next two to three seasons but until that happens we need to keep Carr because without him this is a 3 win team at best.  We need to hire a new GM/HC combo nail draft picks, bring in some young quality FA, have stability at the HC position and then hand the reigns over to a young signal caller.  

Once all of that happens then we can move on but until then moving on from Carr without an upgrade in place, on a team devoid of talent and depth is the recipe for disaster.

Fundamentally, I agree. 

I would point out, however, we're not in a position particularly similar to those Chiefs or Packers regimes below the surface. 

Alex Smith was cheap and on the last year of his deal by the time Mahomes was drafted. The Packers only somewhat knew what they had in Rodgers, Favre just played the retirement card one too many times and had no realistic trade value left. 

I don't think we need an upgrade on Carr, however. I'd be willing to roll the dice on Mariota for a year, signing another FA placeholder, and drafting for the future, using Carr's trade reimbursement for ammo. My biggest issue is timing. It sucks. This team should have been built around him, and it wasn't. Heck, I'd argue we did the polar opposite. But he's going to be a fairly expensive keep. 

I also don't know if I want the Jeff Garcia effect, where Carr outperforms younger QBs and keeps them far away from the field. It runs the risk of diminishing returns and prolonging the inevitable, which isn't a whole long way off with Carr's age and injury history. 

Again, we're going into another rebuild. Carr would be our bridge QB while we flounder in mediocrity, when he could be the missing piece someone would give a small fortune for. We can find some older QB to come in as a stable bridge guy. Heck, maybe a Matt Ryan type who is nearing the end of the road. Let Carr go try and win a Superbowl, not keep him here propping up a bad team and wasting what's left of his career on a rebuild. 

I don't want to see him go because I don't believe in him. I believe in him, and that's why I want to see him go. Carr in New Orleans would likely be chasing rings for the remainder of his career, not waiting for a team to form and hopefully make the playoffs in a few years. And letting him go will almost assuredly net us plenty of compensation to use around a bridge guy and eventually our QBOTF. 

We don't have to screw the pooch like the Jets or Jaguars. Them deciding to start rookies without any semblance of a proven QB on the roster was incredibly dumb. But we don't need Carr for that role, and I hope we send him off to a competent contender, reap the benefits of his trade, and let someone else toil in the dumpster for a few years. The freed up cap space and draft ammo would, imo, do more for us long term than Carr will be able to, and it does right by him. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's be clear here.... Carr isn't winning a Superbowl. The dude cannot play in Nov/Dec. and he would wilt under the pressure of a playoff atmosphere. Every big game the Raiders have been a part of, he's wilted under the pressure of it. 

I would have no fear in where I send him nor do I think he "deserves" to play with a contender. He's never going to be more than he is right now.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was Carrs worst 3 game stretch I can remember. Obviously some outside distractions, and not having ruggs hurt our Offensive identity, but at some point, Carr needs to just step up. He says it himself, no one cares, just win. He knows it, but doesnt do anything. 
Wish he would call a players only meeting, and just snap the F out of it, but that doesnt seem like its going to happen.

Watching the game, I got serious retirement vibes from Carr. He has checked out of the season IMO. Maybe he can snap out of it, but man last 3 weeks have been tough to watch. Giants game I had no problem given the benefit of doubt. But the last 2 have been brutal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Let's be clear here.... Carr isn't winning a Superbowl. The dude cannot play in Nov/Dec. and he would wilt under the pressure of a playoff atmosphere. Every big game the Raiders have been a part of, he's wilted under the pressure of it. 

I would have no fear in where I send him nor do I think he "deserves" to play with a contender. He's never going to be more than he is right now.

 

 

Saints they have an oline a run game and play indoors. Would Sean Payton want him tho ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carr can talk about wanting to only play for the Raiders but himself and the Raiders need a fresh start and the Raiders need a fresh face and voice at QB. This is really the same ol song and dance with Carr. Plays lights out gets you excited then November hits and his play takes a huge nose dive. He’s always been shaky in big games so even if the Raiders can get there you really can’t count on him. I think he’s done the best he can and honestly tip of the cap to him. We read this book over and over and we know the end and no matter how many times you read it the ending is not gonna change. Carr is not gonna change. 
 

One thing is you can’t be scared as a franchise to let go. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

The oline is a weakness. That's not part of the system. That's the reality of the situation. Putting together a system (the scheme, the plays, the game plan) to work around the weakness is what i talked about earlier. Getting rid of some players on the oline isn't a system. It's life managing a roster. The Raiders had a functioning offense to start the season with an oline playing worse than it is now. Yet, here we are, scoring 14 points/game over the last 3. To which you will say, we've lost Ruggs. Well, Ruggs did basically nothing last year and the offense was much better than it is now. Losing Arnette, who was on IR i should add, doesn't even need a mention when talking about the offense. You can choose not to put the blame on Olson but he has years of history behind him and it's exactly what we're seeing now. Ineffective.

Good post, and I agree with a lot of that.

But, if you're going to build a system and neglect the foundations (like the OL) it's a flawed system. With regard Ruggs and Arnette I think the issue for the team is as much the reason why they were cut, maybe moreso than what they actually brought to the team, a true gut punch for the team chemistry. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

Saints they have an oline a run game and play indoors. Would Sean Payton want him tho ?

My gut says absolutely. 

Payton's offense has a lot of effective dink and dunk elements. And he loves QBs that don't throw picks. 

Carr doesn't usually throw many INTs until we get desperate and sloppy as a team, as many QBs do. 

Carr is somewhere between game manager and franchise QB. I think Payton would work wonders with that. Heck, he had Ol' Crab legs looking pretty dang good, and dude was a turnover machine and absolute bust beforehand. One of Sean's early criticisms of Winston was him going off script, and Carr doesn't often do that. 

Carr is no Drew Brees, but he's also not a Teddy Bridgewater or Jameis Winston either. That offense and playcalling, yeah, I bet Sean would ditch Crab legs in a heartbeat if we offered Carr up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Carr can talk about wanting to only play for the Raiders but himself and the Raiders need a fresh start and the Raiders need a fresh face and voice at QB. This is really the same ol song and dance with Carr. Plays lights out gets you excited then November hits and his play takes a huge nose dive. He’s always been shaky in big games so even if the Raiders can get there you really can’t count on him. I think he’s done the best he can and honestly tip of the cap to him. We read this book over and over and we know the end and no matter how many times you read it the ending is not gonna change. Carr is not gonna change. 
 

One thing is you can’t be scared as a franchise to let go. 

I agree with this 100%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Good post, and I agree with a lot of that.

But, if you're going to build a system and neglect the foundations (like the OL) it's a flawed system. With regard Ruggs and Arnette I think the issue for the team is as much the reason why they were cut, maybe moreso than what they actually brought to the team, a true gut punch for the team chemistry. 

Hell yes. Games are won and lost in the trenches. The new regime, if there is one, needs to build the trenches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Carr can talk about wanting to only play for the Raiders but himself and the Raiders need a fresh start and the Raiders need a fresh face and voice at QB. This is really the same ol song and dance with Carr. Plays lights out gets you excited then November hits and his play takes a huge nose dive. He’s always been shaky in big games so even if the Raiders can get there you really can’t count on him. I think he’s done the best he can and honestly tip of the cap to him. We read this book over and over and we know the end and no matter how many times you read it the ending is not gonna change. Carr is not gonna change. 
 

One thing is you can’t be scared as a franchise to let go. 

Yup I wrote this back in September when someone decided to start a Carr appreciation thread after 2 games..

Quote

Carr looks like he found what was missing in his game heart, will, fearlessness could never put my finger on what to call it, that being said we've seen this movie before the last 2 years fast start, 2nd half collapse then blame only the defense when Carr was bad too. So before we go handing out roses let's get past midseason. Another note the deep ball to Ruggs was perfectly thrown I hope that means Carr has been working on his deep ball in the past he put way to much air under those passes if he has look out.

Unfortunately that heart didn't last long.

Edited by raidr4life
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...