Kirk Cousins is, by every traditional measure, an excellent QB. So why doesn't he win more?

[Calamity_Cometh]

2 hours ago, Dome said:

oh god

Traumatized, maybe?

[Tk3]

Interesting that people forgive Stafford for his record because his team was bad, but people don't give the same benefit to Cousins

Cousins is not an elite QB. But Cousins CAN be a Super Bowl winning QB on a good team MUCH easier than many "potential QBs of the future" out there 

[Mox]

2 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

Interesting that people forgive Stafford for his record because his team was bad, but people don't give the same benefit to Cousins

Cousins is not an elite QB. But Cousins CAN be a Super Bowl winning QB on a good team MUCH easier than many "potential QBs of the future" out there 

Well one guy played for the Lions. The other came to a 13-3 team and proceeded to miss the playoffs.

[Dome]

35 minutes ago, Calamity_Cometh said:

Traumatized, maybe?

 

3 hours ago, Dome said:

 

[Calamity_Cometh]

2 minutes ago, Dome said:

 

 

I live in Minny and have watched some pretty big moments involving the Saints and Vikings over the years. Quality entertainment. Must be the Mississippi River connection.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Stats don’t take into account momentum in football games. Not all touchdowns, sacks, turnovers, and 3 and outs are created equally.

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Stats don’t take into account momentum in football games. Not all touchdowns, sacks, turnovers, and 3 and outs are created equally.

I think there’s a lot of luck involved with momentum and the Vikes are probably the most cursed franchise. So it is just never in our favor, that’s not a Kirk Cousins issue. How many Super Bowls did Fran Tarkenton lose?

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, Tk3 said:

Interesting that people forgive Stafford for his record because his team was bad, but people don't give the same benefit to Cousins

Cousins is not an elite QB. But Cousins CAN be a Super Bowl winning QB on a good team MUCH easier than many "potential QBs of the future" out there 

There is a huge gap between the Vikings of the past 4 years and the Lions the decade that Stafford was there. The Vikings are certainly not some uber talented team, but the Lions were 0-16 pre-Stafford, and now 0-8-1 post-Stafford. Those do not equate.

Every year, the Vikings have had Dalvin Cook, at least 2 high end WRs, and with the exception of 2020, a defense in the top half of the league in scoring. Cousins doesn't have a perfect set up, but anyone acting like the supporting cast is just dragging Cousins down is kidding themselves.

[vikingsrule]

10 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

There is a huge gap between the Vikings of the past 4 years and the Lions the decade that Stafford was there. The Vikings are certainly not some uber talented team, but the Lions were 0-16 pre-Stafford, and now 0-8-1 post-Stafford. Those do not equate.

Every year, the Vikings have had Dalvin Cook, at least 2 high end WRs, and with the exception of 2020, a defense in the top half of the league in scoring. Cousins doesn't have a perfect set up, but anyone acting like the supporting cast is just dragging Cousins down is kidding themselves.

If you include coaching and philosophy as supporting cast, then yes those are clearly holding him back if he’s handicapped from audibles and is generally not able to influence the direction of the offense. I think that’s a major problem for an established QB who’s in the top half of the league and obviously highly regarded by the team cutting his large pay checks. 
 

Cousins is really good at play action and designed rollouts, we hardly do that this year. Another example of supporting cast not helping Cousins out.

[Jakuvious]

7 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

If you include coaching and philosophy as supporting cast, then yes those are clearly holding him back if he’s handicapped from audibles and is generally not able to influence the direction of the offense. I think that’s a major problem for an established QB who’s in the top half of the league and obviously highly regarded by the team cutting his large pay checks. 
 

Cousins is really good at play action and designed rollouts, we hardly do that this year. Another example of supporting cast not helping Cousins out.

There is a chicken or the egg element to this, though. Is he being held back because he has less control over the offense, or is he given less control over the offense because he has demonstrated that he doesn't deserve that trust?

I know fans hate thinking this way, but most of the time there are reasons we cannot see for coaching decisions we don't understand, beyond, coaches are dumb.

[ILoveTheVikings]

5 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Well one guy played for the Lions. The other came to a 13-3 team and proceeded to miss the playoffs.

Points given up in losses: 27 ppg

Points given up in wins: 15.38 ppg

 

That 27ppg in losses would rank 6th worst this year behind the Jets, Lions, Falcons, Texans and Washington.

[incognito_man]

My immediate answer just reading the title is that perhaps "traditional" measures suck.

[Jakuvious]

7 minutes ago, ILoveTheVikings said:

Points given up in losses: 27 ppg

Points given up in wins: 15.38 ppg

 

That 27ppg in losses would rank 6th worst this year behind the Jets, Lions, Falcons, Texans and Washington.

Chiefs have allowed 33 PPG in losses. Cowboys have allowed 30.5 PPG. Pats have allowed 25 PPG. Did you know the Dolphins would be #1 in the NFL in scoring D if we only count games they won? Like, of course teams are going to allow more points when they lose games. 

[vikingsrule]

14 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

There is a chicken or the egg element to this, though. Is he being held back because he has less control over the offense, or is he given less control over the offense because he has demonstrated that he doesn't deserve that trust?

I know fans hate thinking this way, but most of the time there are reasons we cannot see for coaching decisions we don't understand, beyond, coaches are dumb.

That’s probably true in some ways. But you can’t ignore Zimmer and his philosophy towards coaching. I don’t think he’s capable of change here. He’s not taken ownership of the offense but has mostly hired “friends” to run his offense. Turner and Kubiak. And now Kubiaks kid. There’s an element of nepotism and desiring coaches who run offenses from the 1990s. 
 

Stefanksi and Shurmur both got chances but mostly ran conservative offenses. They tried DeFillippo and he was awful, didn’t have Cousins at the time. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by vikingsrule

[ILoveTheVikings]

6 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Chiefs have allowed 33 PPG in losses. Cowboys have allowed 30.5 PPG. Pats have allowed 25 PPG. Did you know the Dolphins would be #1 in the NFL in scoring D if we only count games they won? Like, of course teams are going to allow more points when they lose games. 

Good thing we've established that Cousins isn't as good as Mahomes or Brady.