Should the Seahawks clean house?

[BugzBunny101]

if Seahawks dont fire petey sunshine - Wilson is leaving.

 

But yeah. clean house and convince Wilson to stay.

[FrantikRam]

They have some players.

Not sure how much cap space they can make..

But offensively, they just need one offensive linemen and Carroll fired.

Defensively, they need to improve their pass rush and get some NFL caliber CBs.

But in my eyes, they're just four starters and a HC away from being a super bowl contender. I wouldn't blow it all up for that.

[SHONUFF]

People on this forum think it's so easy to draft a pro bowl qb. New coach, new gm behind Wilson. Go young on defense and rebuild the trenches. 

My guess is Wagner would be gone. He's great all, but due something 18 mil next year. Part of the problem is that Carroll refuses to play his draft picks and opts for aging average vets. Carroll and Schneider are done though. 

[drew39k]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:25 PM, ET80 said:

As far as the question - yes. Rebuild. Fire Carroll (maybe he goes back to USC...?) get max value for Russ to springboard this rebuild, see if anyone will take on that Jamal Adams contract, offer up anyone not named DK for whatever resource you can get.

It could be a fast rebuild with the right HC and GM building from scratch. 

It's only a fast rebuild if you are able to identify draft and develop a franchise QB, something few leadership groups have been able to do, let alone consistently.

[CP3MVP]

How long is Pete gonna continue to live off those first 3 draft classes? Lol

[BroncoSojia]

Yes they should. They should also trade Russ to the Broncos as a thank you for Superbowl 48.

[SBLIII]

20 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

How long is Pete gonna continue to live off those first 3 draft classes? Lol

which is the whole problem. He had once in a lifetime luck. After that I didn't see a plan. Not from Pete, not from their FO. It's also really hard for me to say it's anything other than insane luck when you draft 4 hall of famers in 3 years and a bunch of other quality starters.

[CP3MVP]

1 hour ago, SBLIII said:

which is the whole problem. He had once in a lifetime luck. After that I didn't see a plan. Not from Pete, not from their FO. It's also really hard for me to say it's anything other than insane luck when you draft 4 hall of famers in 3 years and a bunch of other quality starters.

The further away he’s gotten from college the worst the drafts have been 

[Chiefs_5627]

I'd imagine coaching philosophies eventually stop resonating with the team and I think this is basically the case. I think Seattle gets a fresh offensive mind to coach the team and Russ has a resurgence.

[KingOfNewYork]

Hopefully Carroll and his vanilla defense exit the NFL expeditiously 

[animaltested]

So been thinking about this one a lot. To be honest, it's a moot point. Caroll and Schnider both signed extensions in in the offseason, and by all accounts there seems to be a power vacuum up on the executive level. Like, Pete essentially runs the ship; and I cant see himself firing himself. 

"Familiarity breeds content"

For Seahawks fans, we have basically seen the same types of struggles for 4-5 years. Declining defense, blown draft capital, lack of impact players added in the draft, poor free agency strategy, inefficient use of cap space. Yet Seattle still managed to achieve success. As bad as it seemed Pete and John bungled the draft; they havent. They are basically middle of the road as far as AV per draft since 2013. They have done a great job using the wavier wire + saavy low assets trades to fillout holes on the roster. To me the biggest issue has been focusing too much on drafting high floor players; and guys they think can step into to early roles. Penny, Collier, Blair being the 3 biggest misses lately. 

For 2021; its been a very weird year. By most metrics, Seattle is the exact team they were last year (that won 11 games). The BIGGEST issue this year has been offense. The defense is currently 7th in PPG this year (20.9). You'd think the offense lead by Russell Wilson could muster 21 PPG but.... nope. Watching the team they look like a mess, BUT honestly, there is one glaring issue that is affecting the entire team... 3rd down offense. 

Russell Wilson has been a FANTASTIC passer on 1st and 2nd down. 

1st: 57/77 74% : 9.49 YPA : 100.4 RATE (5 sacks)

2nd 53/74 71.6% : 9.04 YPA : 123.4 RATE (4 sacks)

BUT

3rd 13/37 35% : 5.76 YPA : 62.7 RATE (11 sacks)

This has led to Seattle being:

32nd in Plays Per Game

32nd in Plays per Drive

31st in Yard per Drive

27th in Scoring per Drive

32nd in Possession per Drive

 

This falls squarely on Shane Waldrons shoulders. Dude has been terrible this year. Offense + Russ seems completely unprepared to handle what defenses are throwing at them. Before Russ's injury, the biggest issue was Waldron's failure to adjust to defenses. Seattle started games hot; then finished cold. Right now, it's a combination of Waldron's playcalling and Seattles execution. 

Russ's level of play has been declining the last year and a half. Over the last 17 games Russ has been incredibly mediocre. 

65% Completion %

26/11 TD/INT

50 Sacks

10 Fumbles

That's just not good enough for Seattle to maintain success.

Honestly, Seattle would probably be somewhere around 5-5; 6-4 right now if they merely converted 8-10% more 3rd downs per game. The biggest issue the defense is facing right now is being on the field for 75% of the game. 

Anyway; I think Seattle should just move on from KNJ, Solari & Waldron. (What they did in 2018 dumping Richards, Cable & Bevell)

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks' Offense are broken | Film Room - YouTube

Samuel Gold does a good breakdown of whats wrong here. Honestly, it SHOULD be an easy fix; be better on 3rd down. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by animaltested

[Sugashane]

On 11/25/2021 at 12:25 PM, SHONUFF said:

People on this forum think it's so easy to draft a pro bowl qb.

As a Bears fan I vehemently disagree. Lol 

[stl4life07]

One of two things things has to happen. Either Russ needs to get out of Seattle and go to lets say the Saints with Payton and that offense hopefully with Thomas but also Kamara and a solid OL when its healthy OR Pete needs to leave and the Seahawks need to go hard after one of the bright offensive minds like Riley from OU, Bieinemy of the Chiefs, Daboll of the Bills, or Moore of the Cowboys. As constituted right now the Seahawks are capped in terms of what they can do. Yes their ceiling is playoffs but they wont even get back to the NFCCG let alone a Superbowl as long as Russ and Pete are still together with this roster. One has to go. Btw I mentioned the Saints as a place Russ should go and I know the Saints gave Taysom that contract which was mistake but he isnt the answer for the Saints. Admit that mistake and go get a real QB. I cant take the Saints seriously either until they get a real QB. Jameis had a chance to show that he was the answer but sadly he got hurt with a really bad injury and I dont think he will fully be back to what he was this season until at least 2023 and the question is, are Saints fans willing to wait that long just to see if Jameis is the answer? If I was Saints fan Id say no. Some QBs are worth waiting for, Jameis isnt one of them ESPECIALLY when you might have Russ and ARod looking for a way out of their current situations in the offseason. 

If Im the Seahawks its an easy choice. Get rid of Pete. Its hard to find a QB like Russ. He hardly miss any games over his career, he make plays especially in crunch time to help win games, and he is all about the team. He is high character. He couldve easily got frustrated and went off the rails years ago when he consistently even till now has to play behind a crappy OL and watch the team botch high draft pick after high draft pick. I think one year the Seahawks FO and coaches thought it was genius to turn a DL to an OL. When you are in a division with the Donald, Jones, and Bosa and all that the Rams, Cards, and Niners in general present as a team in terms of rushing the passer the last thing the Seahawks need is to experiment on the OL. They need real dudes up front to help protect Russ. They failed him over and over again. Then the offensive scheme to just run deep and let Russ run around then throw it deep is lousy. Going deep the play takes time to develop and again with a bad OL its impossible to continuously do that without getting the QB hit a ton every game. 

Then I look at the defense. Pete specialty is defense. We know they will never be the legion of boom again. My issue is why Pete continuously try to keep what they did back then alive? They dont have the special players on that side of the ball anymore. They need to adapt. A desperate move was to get Adams and they gave up alot for him. I like Adams being a former LSU Tiger. He isnt going to change life for the defense. If they had a defense that had alot of the pieces already in place and THEN they go get him as the final piece then I could understand. The defense just isnt good but they do have their moments when they play a bad team or a team that might be struggling for a quarter or two offensively. As soon as they play a great offense or an offense that might get their rhythm going in the game that defense gets shredded easily.

So again Pete has to go and keep Russ. Bring in a real offensive minded coach, start to draft well, fix the OL and defense and I think the Seahawks will be back to being real contenders in the NFC. If the Seahawks keep Pete and let Russ walk then its going to be a very very long painful watch for this organization bc now you still have to deal with Pete and his constant mistakes with this team PLUS trying to find a replacement for Russ which that in itself will be a struggle. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by stl4life07

[LoFi]

I think the Seahawks have needed to re-think their relationship with Pete Carroll for awhile now. At the very least, Carroll should of had his player acquisition privileges striped long ago. Their GM, Schneider doesn't have final say over player acquisition. Carroll has the ability to override him at any time, Carroll's relationship here is also unique in that he hired him personally. Usually the HC doesn't have the ability to hire the teams GM without any interference from management.

The Seahawks draft classes since 2013 have been pretty spotty, or outright bad. Carroll came into the NFL with inside knowledge of the college players and a scheme that maximized players that were previously undervalued. Big corners, fast undersized linebackers a safety that straddled the line between linebacker and safety, and small, undersized pass rushers that were quick and agile. It's not a surprise that the Seahawks ended up drafting many players that Pete Carroll either scouted, or played against in college. Irvin, Sherman, Baldwin, Browner, Golden Tate, Malcolm Smith, Thurmond, Kearse, Wagner,  and Thomas are all players that I know of that Carroll had intimate knowledge of from his college days. Virtually all of the LOB sans Chancellor, all of the starting wide receivers and I'm not even going to touch on the guys he traded for such as Lynch. 

As Carroll's insider knowledge of the college game waned, so did the Seahawks ability to find impact players. Then, what came next was questionable trades. Seattle gave up the farm for players such as Harvin, Graham and Jamal Adams. In addition to this they gave up substantial draft capital for players such as Clowney, and Sheldon Richardson. None of these players quite fit into Carroll's system and instead they were pigeon holed into roles which they weren't fit for. The fact that Seattle insisted on using Jimmy Graham as an inline blocker still blows my mind. It's mind numbingly stupid.

In addition to the bad trades the Seahawks also made some very questionable draft decisions. Huge reaches, often times passing on gimmie players in positions of need for the likes of Raashad Penny or Collier. 

Seattle's woes are also in large part due to coaching problems. Pete Carroll is not a great in game coach. He's often slow to adjust to changes and his offensive/defensive game planning is overly conservative. His clock management is suspect and he's relied on Russell Wilson's 4th quarter heroics to bail him out over the last few years. The defense has been declining almost every year since 2015, and since 2015 the Seahawks have only won 3 playoff games and only one game in the last 4 years. Who were those games against? 

The Eagles, a team that was fielding a 40 year old McCown, The Lions, a team that was fielding a Matt Stafford with a throwing hand injury and ankle sprain, and the Vikings led by Teddy Bridgewater. Do you see a quality playoff win here? I don't. The Minnesota game should have been a loss but the kicker shanked an easy go ahead 30 yard field goal in the final seconds of the 4th quarter. Carroll then decided to hire said kicker... Realistically the Seahawks playoff record since the 2014 Super Bowl run should be 2-7, not 3-6, all of which are wins against journeyman QB's or injured QB's. The doesn't seem like a great resume, especially since teams such as the 2015 Seahawks had one of the highest recorded overall DVOA's in PFF history. The Seahawks have woefully underachieved since 2015 underneath Pete Carroll. Despite the regular season record looking good, there have been some major chinks in the armor. It's all been a veneer that has been slowly peeling away, and now you're seeing the Seahawks for what they are: 

A team that hasn't drafted well for years, a team that makes really poor coaching decisions on game day, and a team that has been in a slow tailspin for awhile now. 

In addition to all of the above, Russell Wilson has also been off. Over the last 17 games his statline looks more similar to Baker Mayfield than Aaron Rodgers. He's not a complete QB and he has not developed completely as a passer. Teams learned that they could game Wilson at the LOS in the second half of last season. Right now in obvious passing situations and third downs, Wilson has among the worst QB ratings and worse success rate in the NFL. Teams are showing one look and then often times falling to a Tampa 2 style of defense. Wilson is having a hard time exploiting the defense underneath and utilizing his TE's to attack the seams. He's struggling at pre-snap reads and often times he's ignoring the checkdowns in favor of the long, rainbow balls. If you can take away the deep ball from Wilson long enough he presses and makes stupid mistakes, he tunnel visions. 
At the end of the day, this is a dysfunctional relationship between QB and coach. Carroll is among what I consider to be one of the worst offensive minds in the NFL. When Schottenheimer came to the Seahawks, he wasn't even able to bring his own playbook. Coincidentally, Waldrons playbook looks very similar to Bevell's, Bates and Schottenheimers. Matt Hasselbeck even reverted to a backyard style of player and attempted to drive the ball deep under Carroll, a QB known for the WCO methodical, short timing routes and a mediocre arm. I think Carroll's offense has stunted Wilson's development as a passer. 

At the end of the day, Carroll is reminding me a lot of the McCarthy era in GB just before he was canned. Lots of dysfunction and frustration on the Seahawks right now. Seattle also has a fantastic QB that has been struggling over the last season. I think it's time for the Seahawks to say goodbye to Pete Carroll. He's 70 years old, going on 71, and Seattle has one of the best talents at QB position in the NFL, despite his 17 game string of mediocre games. They need to hire somebody that will help Wilson thrive, and give him structure to work around. Along with this they need to give him somebody that will actually protect their asset with an offensive line. Wilson is never going to get these things underneath the current regime.

[MWil23]

Blow it up. Trade Russ to Cleveland for Mayfield and some picks, leave their offensive skill guys intact, use picks and cap space to build up the OL and defensive areas, move on from Carroll, and be ready to rebound going forward after you move on from Baker as your bridge guy in limbo time.