Mastercheddaar Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Ok guys, Reading a few stories about a growing rift between Hue and the FO. It sounds like Hue knew about the QB dumpster fire and wanted something done. Sashi gave him Kizer... My question is this, what are the biggest successes of money ball vs the biggest fails. Pro - Myles Garrett. Dude is a home run hit! When he is on the field our defense improves. Con - Kenny Britt. We could have had Pryor back. Yeah the stats were basically the same but Pryor would be a lot better of a player on our team. Comment on your own pro v con of Sashi. I really want to see how many positives we can come up with. I have a sinking feeling that this Front Office is mostly to blame for this team. That is all Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Jamies Collins a plus then resigning him loaded ammo next year a plus Run defense a plus Getting Kevin Zeitler and Tretter to sign they could've gone elsewhere Con Kenny Britt Not overpaying Pryor (even though hes going to get benched in Washington) thats really it you can't fix everything in two years Extra Again they came in and their first move was going receivers in the first round with Corey Coleman who no one expected would injured this consistently nobody saw that coming Our offense looks terrible without its number 1 playmaker but no one could've seen that coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Pros: Stockpiling ammunition via the draft. More draft picks=higher probability of success Building a roster from a foundation. The Front 7 looks legit. Lots of young players who show promise. Trading for proven players like Jamie Collins Evaluating talent/production vs. Salary Cons: Breaking the cardinal rule of "when you need a franchise QB and he's available, you never pass on him"...TWICE (Wentz/Watson, maybe even Jimmy G if he pans out) Signing Kenny Britt Letting Mitchel Schwartz go Trading back for lower picks/overvaluing future picks when blue chip talent is available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Breaking the cardinal rule of "when you need a franchise QB and he's available, you never pass on him"...TWICE (Wentz/Watson, maybe even Jimmy G if he pans out) This is silly to me. No one knows who will be franchise QBs. You pass on prospects not franchise quarterbacks. Should we have taken Trubisky #1 overall besides Garrett? That is the better question than Watson who wasn't seen as much of a franchise QB as Trubisky. How about Mahomes? It's easy top say you should have taken X when they are already in the league and doing well but when they are just prospects it is much tougher. Some of us loved Goff, Wentz, Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Manziel, Webb, Kaaya, Lynch, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Garoppolo, RGIII, etc... but just picking out the quarterbacks who ended up doing well and ignoring passing on quarterbacks who were just as good of prospects but not as successful in the league seems pretty unfair. I think they have done good with adding future picks. I like firing a coach who wasn't doing well (Horton) and replacing him with a coach who is getting a lot more out of the talent that he has. Hopefully it works for the offense too if they make a move. I don't like that we are where we are at the moment. Whether it is on Hue, the QB situation or the talent around the QB. Whatever is the biggest issue on offense that is what I have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: This is silly to me. No one knows who will be franchise QBs. You pass on prospects not franchise quarterbacks. It's their job to evaluate them and do their due diligence. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Should we have taken Trubisky #1 overall besides Garrett? If he's a Franchise QB, then absolutely 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: That is the better question than Watson who wasn't seen as much of a franchise QB as Trubisky. Besides me of course. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: How about Mahomes? If he's a Franchise QB, then absolutely. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: It's easy top say you should have taken X when they are already in the league and doing well but when they are just prospects it is much tougher. I was banging on that drum pretty hard for Watson all offseason. You won't get any sympathy for me here. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Some of us loved Goff, Wentz, Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Manziel, Webb, Kaaya, Lynch, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Garoppolo, RGIII, etc... but just picking out the quarterbacks who ended up doing well and ignoring passing on quarterbacks who were just as good of prospects but not as successful in the league seems pretty unfair. Considering I loved Watson, hardly unfair. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I think they have done good with adding future picks. I said that in the Pro section. However, we'll see what they do with them. If they piss them away ala Gilbert/Manziel/Phil Taylor/maybe even Corey Coleman when they could have had guys like Julio Jones, Anthony Barr, Derek Carr, Khalil Mack, Wentz, and Watson, then it won't be a good job at adding future picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 26 minutes ago, MWil23 said: It's their job to evaluate them and do their due diligence. It is still a guessing game no matter who you are. 26 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Considering I loved Watson, hardly unfair. What if you loved Blake Bortles or RGIII? They obviously can't select every QB that every fan likes. Yes they have failed but they never failed to draft a franchise QB they failed to draft a potential franchise QB that worked out and the quarterbacks they did draft failed to become (at this point) franchise quarterbacks. You just don't ever really pass up drafting a franchise QB because there isn't a certainty that they are a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 45 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: It is still a guessing game no matter who you are. To some extent, absolutely. 50/50 in the first round probably no matter what position, but especially QBs. 45 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: What if you loved Blake Bortles or RGIII? I didn't. I hated both as prospects. 45 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: They obviously can't select every QB that every fan likes. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm saying that they're not getting a pass from me, since as a casual fan who watches a lot of football, I could see that Watson is a legit Franchise QBOTF. They don't get a pass from me, nor should they. Missing on him is ridiculous. 45 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Yes they have failed but they never failed to draft a franchise QB they failed to draft a potential franchise QB that worked out and the quarterbacks they did draft failed to become (at this point) franchise quarterbacks. So? Then I guess NO ONE SHOULD EVER be held accountable for a bad draft pick/passing on someone. 45 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: You just don't ever really pass up drafting a franchise QB because there isn't a certainty that they are a franchise QB. There's NEVER a certainty about any prospect, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, MWil23 said: That's not what I'm getting at. I'm saying that they're not getting a pass from me, since as a casual fan who watches a lot of football, I could see that Watson is a legit Franchise QBOTF. They don't get a pass from me, nor should they. Missing on him is ridiculous. The Bears, 49ers, Jaguars, and Jets passed on him too meaning a lot of teams didn't suspect Watson to be as good as you did. 19 minutes ago, MWil23 said: So? Then I guess NO ONE SHOULD EVER be held accountable for a bad draft pick/passing on someone. On any specific pick? No. Overall picks under their regime, absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Bottom line, they did evaluate all of the QBs in both of the prior 2 drafts, none of the round 1 guys presented the right balance of low risk/value to be selected. I completely agreed with the front office on every single one of them. I did not want them either (nor did I want Kizer for that matter where he was selected, but that is another story). I have no doubt that we will get our guy in 2018 (hopefully he works out). I hope its with Houston's pick and not our own as I want Barkley with that pick. How do you go about making the team better? How about drafting a generational player with your first pick 2 years in a row. If Garrett can stay healthy, and they get Barkley and some fluke injury doesn't screw him up, we will have done just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatgerman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, MWil23 said: It's their job to evaluate them and do their due diligence. If he's a Franchise QB, then absolutely Besides me of course. If he's a Franchise QB, then absolutely. I was banging on that drum pretty hard for Watson all offseason. You won't get any sympathy for me here. Considering I loved Watson, hardly unfair. I said that in the Pro section. However, we'll see what they do with them. If they piss them away ala Gilbert/Manziel/Phil Taylor/maybe even Corey Coleman when they could have had guys like Julio Jones, Anthony Barr, Derek Carr, Khalil Mack, Wentz, and Watson, then it won't be a good job at adding future picks. Im still suspicious of Watson. He might just be the next RG3: amazing first season, but figured out by year two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Mastercheddaar said: Ok guys, Reading a few stories about a growing rift between Hue and the FO. It sounds like Hue knew about the QB dumpster fire and wanted something done. Sashi gave him Kizer... My question is this, what are the biggest successes of money ball vs the biggest fails. Pro - Myles Garrett. Dude is a home run hit! When he is on the field our defense improves. Con - Kenny Britt. We could have had Pryor back. Yeah the stats were basically the same but Pryor would be a lot better of a player on our team. Comment on your own pro v con of Sashi. I really want to see how many positives we can come up with. I have a sinking feeling that this Front Office is mostly to blame for this team. That is all Mastercheddaar There is nothing wrong with using metrics as a tool to help a FO assess talent for the draft and who to sign in FA, but to rely on metrics 100% is just plain stupid, you still need a FO that can clearly assess talent. Our FO using metrics, decided Wentz could not possibly be a franchise QB, while Philly's FO decided he would be one or they do not make the trade. Ditto for Watson. Instead our FO decided using metrics, that Kizer could be a franchise QB and he is about as far away from being a franchise qB as you can get??? Money ball in the movies, suggested that metrics alone decided all their trades, but in real world, it is a movie guys not reality. Oakland's GM, Billy Beane was a talented judge of ability, he, in real life, never depended on Metrics 100%, it was just a tool he used to assist him in making judgement calls on talent and that is how every decent GM uses metrics. I seriously doubt, metrics account for more than 30% of the reason why a baseball team drafts a player, they still rely on 70% of what their scouts and their own ability to assess talent, tells them. Garrett, hardly was based on metrics, he was clearly the #1 talent in the draft and everybody knew it. Your sinking feeling is right on, our FO is totally incompetent as shown by the NFL record setting of a likely 1-31 record. However, I would not totally blame them for all this mess, after all, our owner hired them, showing just how incompetent he is at assessing GM talent. When your GM has a 1-31 record for all his efforts, there cannot be one thing he does right, he is worse than Matt Millen of the Lions was and I never thought I would see another GM as bad as he was, and Sachi is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Pro: Helping the pass rush with guys like Ogbah, Collins, Garrett Getting a 2nd for an Osweiller salary dump was a pretty wily move A Harvard Law degree - I bet that made his mom proud Cons: Falling in love with draft picks at the expense of grabbing the #1 overall need and piece every smart team rebuilds around: a franchise QB. The Wentz and Watson whiffs look bigger by the day Squandering good pieces (like trading D Davis for a guy who didn't make the team, cutting Haden when you could have gotten something for him Apparently in Harvard Law school, they didn't teach that you need to submit official documents by the deadline, or the deal is null and void - you aren't the football guy, you are the business exec, and you can't get a trade in on time?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 hours ago, dawgdish said: Pro: Helping the pass rush with guys like Ogbah, Collins, Garrett Getting a 2nd for an Osweiller salary dump was a pretty wily move A Harvard Law degree - I bet that made his mom proud Cons: Falling in love with draft picks at the expense of grabbing the #1 overall need and piece every smart team rebuilds around: a franchise QB. The Wentz and Watson whiffs look bigger by the day Squandering good pieces (like trading D Davis for a guy who didn't make the team, cutting Haden when you could have gotten something for him Apparently in Harvard Law school, they didn't teach that you need to submit official documents by the deadline, or the deal is null and void - you aren't the football guy, you are the business exec, and you can't get a trade in on time?!?!?! Questionable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Giving sashi and the nerds credit for Garrett is like giving grigson credit for Andrew luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 19 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Giving sashi and the nerds credit for Garrett is like giving grigson credit for Andrew luck. Grigson won exec of the year for that. Ri-damn-diculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.