Trey Lances devolopment (it failed)

[Forge]

3 hours ago, JIllg said:

I mean, there were definitely Mac dudes in the organization, I think. That or it was a very precisely done PR job last year. It didn’t feel that way though. Too muddled.  I think that it’s pretty clear that the Mac dudes weren’t at the top, but I’m sure they existed. I mean, one of our coaches specifically decided to go to Miami to coach new Jimmy G that hasn’t been super hot in the NFL yet. Not to use draft assets to get their own guy. New Jimmy G. There was a type in the building. Trying to identify who dropped the Lance rumors is silly though. Scangarello is certainly possible along with several other guys that left the building. 

In fairness to the bolded, I don't know that McD had much of a choice. Tua is still a Grier pick and even before the hire they were doubling down on the "we believe in him". I'm assuming that was something that came with the job. 

If you have 20 minutes, I'd give the podcast a listen. Its actually not bad. Was never sure if scange was any good as a coach, but he's a solid listen. 

[straighthate]

Thanks @Forge, just didn’t know when it was said or in what context. Obviously that stuff, like quotes from 3 years ago can be used to push a narrative about a situation today. 
 

All this stuff is just what happens during the boring parts of the off-season. Everyone has to speculate to create a story. As a guy who wanted Jones (not at 3, didn’t want to trade in the first place) I’m definitely not giving up on Lance over off-season rumors. He looked good enough last year to see there’s something there. Just hope he has what it takes between the ears to be a great QB and they can get his accuracy under control. 
 

I also heard a story the other day that the Niners never wanted any of the QBs. Traded up because they thought they could trade back and get a huge haul. I actually said that after the trade as my bold prediction and got laughed at. Who knows if any truth to that story, but if true, what a swing and miss. 

[Chrissooner49er]

I like Mac Jones....  🤔

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I like Mac Jones....  🤔

I like him as a middle of the pack QB. I don't see him ever being a tier or two above what he is currently. His arm or lack there of will always limit him in some capacity. He has other intangibles that are noteworthy. But none outerworldly enoufh to push him into that franchise QB stratosphere. If he stick with Belichick he'll have a run or two or three. But he's very much in that Cousins/Tannehill territory of QB for me personally.

[GW21]

3 hours ago, straighthate said:

I also heard a story the other day that the Niners never wanted any of the QBs. Traded up because they thought they could trade back and get a huge haul. I actually said that after the trade as my bold prediction and got laughed at. Who knows if any truth to that story, but if true, what a swing and miss. 

I don't think this was ever in the cards. We overpaid to get up to 3 and Lynch and Shanny admitted to that after the trade was made. I don't think we could have even got back to where we were without taking a loss personally. 

[Forge]

 

[49erurtaza]

43 minutes ago, Forge said:

 

I think this seems probably closest to the truth of where lance is right now. Which isn't a bad thing, he needs to play. His rawness doesn't stop us from winning. I'm excited for this season.

[N4L]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:05 AM, N4L said:

Ironically, his issues have been physical. He has not been accurate because his mechanics were out of sync. Mentally, he was seeing the field very well and his decision making has always been elite. Its why he went an entire 16 game season without throwing an interception.

He understands the offense and knows what/how to do, its just a matter of getting his body to do it. He is in the middle of a massive mechanical overhaul and so it can take some time to get your eyes, feet, hips, and arm all tied together properly when you are making so many changes all at once. 

In his first start his footwork reverted to some bad habits and it made it hard for him to execute physically what he wanted to mentally. Its why I can watch that game and feel so great about how he will turn out in the long run. 

Its actually pretty hilarious that the prospect who was touted as the one with elite physical traits is actually the one who has struggled physically, while McCorkle is having success because he has similar processing skills, but his mind and his body are tied together in a way that Trey's are not right now.

So I think that everyone who tries to enter into the Mac vs Trey debate needs to understand that Trey has every bit of the "elite processing" that makes Mac a successful NFL QB, but that he is light weight physically unable to utilize that information in the same manner as Mac (for the time being) simply because he has not built up the requisite muscle memory. It comes with repetition.

Trey's physical traits are in the 99th percentile, but physical traits do not make you a mechanically sound QB. It is very rare for a QB with his physical traits to have such a great grasp on the mental side of the game so quickly. Usually, they have let their physical traits shine on the lower levels of football and have not developed the ability to read defenses in the same manner that Trey already can. Its actually the opposite in his case. He is very inexperienced, but the guy gets to his third read like a 10 year vet. Its why I am so encouraged by his lone start which was a game where he was wildly inaccurate and we lost lol 

So, I really dont care how McCorkle has looked in NE because there is a very reasonable path for Trey completely break the NFL

Im just gonna quote this again

 

There may be mistakes in the heat of the battle, but I have supreme confidence in Trey to eventually tie his mind and his body together properly. Right now there is a disconnect, but I can absolutely tell he is processing the game quickly, its just a matter of being able to get his body to do what he wants it to.

I can see why Forge says that is being "slow" while I can clearly see a level of full field processing that shows me he has what it takes from a mental standpoint.

Getting to his third read very quickly but then taking his time with a slightly long release and inconsistent footwork to actually get the ball there, would be considered "slow", but would show that he is actually very quick to think on his feet. 

He seems to be very smooooooth once he gets a handle on things. The game will slow down for him at some point. It wont happen until this new muscle memory becomes second nature to him. 

That is not an instantaneous process, it probably wont even happen completely until his second or perhaps even third full season starting if we are being completely honest. Thats fine.

This kid is such a rare combination of football IQ, physical traits, and mindset - and he is surrounded by one of the best surrounding casts (minus the OL) that it is hard for me to imagine him failing

Edited May 10, 2022 by N4L

[49ersfan]

The only rookie year i can find comparable in the last decade to Lance is Mahomes. 

Not saying Lance will turn into Mahomes. But its the most obvious, maybe the only rookie year comparison in the last decade. 

Was there this much consternation in 2018 when Mahomes was taking over for Smith?

Lance's lows weren't any lower than any of the other 5 rookie QB's. His highs were just as high if not higher. Just don't see that big of an issue

Edited May 10, 2022 by 49ersfan

[NcFinest9erFan]

4 hours ago, 49ersfan said:

The only rookie year i can find comparable in the last decade to Lance is Mahomes. 

Not saying Lance will turn into Mahomes. But its the most obvious, maybe the only rookie year comparison in the last decade. 

Was there this much consternation in 2018 when Mahomes was taking over for Smith?

Lance's lows weren't any lower than any of the other 5 rookie QB's. His highs were just as high if not higher. Just don't see that big of an issue

I wish I remember if there was anything on this..

I didn't watch much of Mahomes before that year's draft but when I go back and re watch, ya know it wasn't as bad as ppl made him out to be as a prospect...

[Forge]

 

[757-NINER]

8 hours ago, Forge said:

 

And that's the rub with inexperience. You're never going to be truly 'ready' by sitting. Only way to gain experience and be 'ready' is to go through it. Sometimes sitting and playing behind the incumbent, getting bits of playing time here and there helps with development. But you never will grow into the role without continuous live game reps and failing....repeatedly.

I think Lance's first two years will be filled with peaks and valleys. Lots of valleys if I were a betting man. He's going to have some rough moments & games where many will be wondering wtf this regime was thinking giving up what they did to get him. But I think when the light comes on for him, it will be something special to behold. Just have to exercise patience and understand his starting point doesn't define his trajectory.

[adamq]

Call me crazy but I think Kyle would have taken Mac if he was so in love with him.. 

 

"But the fans!!!!!!"

 

Who cares, the people making football decisions sure don't. Their jobs depend on wins, not what idiots on Twitter spew. 

Pretty sure Giants fans stuck around after they took Daniel Jones, so that's not an excuse either.

[J-ALL-DAY]

59 minutes ago, adamq said:

Call me crazy but I think Kyle would have taken Mac if he was so in love with him.. 

 

"But the fans!!!!!!"

 

Who cares, the people making football decisions sure don't. Their jobs depend on wins, not what idiots on Twitter spew. 

Pretty sure Giants fans stuck around after they took Daniel Jones, so that's not an excuse either.

Of course he would have taken Mac if he wanted to but even though I wavered a bit at one point last year, I had a good read of the situation and had a good feeling Lance was going to be the pick. It is not a coincidence that the trade happened a few days after Allbright reported if any team wants Lance that they will have to jump the Falcons and get to #3. Word got out in league circles of the interest the Falcons had in Lance. Then Shanny had Lance go work with Beck for a bit and that was another tell tale sign. Later on, Barrows reported that he tried to reach out to some of Mac's old coaches and they said the Niners had not reached out to them so he thought that was weird since teams do all this background checks and interviews of prospects they are interested in.

Shanny runs this team and if he wanted Mac, then he would be the QB right now. I have no doubt he was high on Mac and was intrigued with him but he wanted to go BIG with this move. He wanted a true game changer at the QB position and he was completely mesmerized with Allen's performance against us and knew he had to have something that looks like THAT. 

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Of course he would have taken Mac if he wanted to but even though I wavered a bit at one point last year, I had a good read of the situation and had a good feeling Lance was going to be the pick. It is not a coincidence that the trade happened a few days after Allbright reported if any team wants Lance that they will have to jump the Falcons and get to #3. Word got out in league circles of the interest the Falcons had in Lance. Then Shanny had Lance go work with Beck for a bit and that was another tell tale sign. Later on, Barrows reported that he tried to reach out to some of Mac's old coaches and they said the Niners had not reached out to them so he thought that was weird since teams do all this background checks and interviews of prospects they are interested in.

Shanny runs this team and if he wanted Mac, then he would be the QB right now. I have no doubt he was high on Mac and was intrigued with him but he wanted to go BIG with this move. He wanted a true game changer at the QB position and he was completely mesmerized with Allen's performance against us and knew he had to have something that looks like THAT. 

 

Me and J, displaying the strength to never waver in who the 49ers were picking