Sources: This is likely Roethlisberger's final season

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, biggie. said:

I think what's amazing is how he looked like a total phenom as a rookie and won a SB in just his second year, but he never truly elevated his game to the next level. Not once named All-Pro and played poorly in all three Super Bowls.

I really wanted to argue this. But then I looked at his stats, I think you are right.  Still a scary QB to defend if you are down by 4 with 2 minutes left.

[biggie.]

33 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I really wanted to argue this. But then I looked at his stats, I think you are right.  Still a scary QB to defend if you are down by 4 with 2 minutes left.

And to be perfectly honest, when you factor in the physical tools he had it's a bit disappointing that he never became an elite player.

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, biggie. said:

I think what's amazing is how he looked like a total phenom as a rookie and won a SB in just his second year, but he never truly elevated his game to the next level. Not once named All-Pro and played poorly in all three Super Bowls.

Admittedly it's been almost 20 years, but that's not how I remember his rookie season at all. The 04 Steelers ran the ball more than any team since the Walter Payton Bears. And not the ones that won the superbowl, the ones that had nothing going for them on offense except Walter Payton. They had the best defense in football, and one of the best of Cowher's tenure. Ben was 100% a game manager that year. He did it excellently, don't get me wrong. And it got him OROTY with the competition basically being Michael Clayton. But I don't think there were any misunderstandings of what he was that year. He was a game manager on one of the best rosters in football, but he wasn't getting pro-bowl votes or all-pro nominations. No one gave him GOAT hype like we saw when Rodgers or Mahomes burst on the scene. And the two playoff games didn't help either.

Maybe I'm taking phenom too literally. But I remember his rookie year, and no one quite wanting to put him as a top 10 QB, as everyone was gun shy about what was being asked of him. It was excellent coaching by the Steelers, honestly, to put him in an ideal situation. But it was noticed, when people were evaluating/comparing him to others. The game wasn't as pass happy yet, but an almost 2 to 1 run/pass ratio was still pretty nutty at the time.

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

Admittedly it's been almost 20 years, but that's not how I remember his rookie season at all. The 04 Steelers ran the ball more than any team since the Walter Payton Bears. And not the ones that won the superbowl, the ones that had nothing going for them on offense except Walter Payton. They had the best defense in football, and one of the best of Cowher's tenure. Ben was 100% a game manager that year. He did it excellently, don't get me wrong. And it got him OROTY with the competition basically being Michael Clayton. But I don't think there were any misunderstandings of what he was that year. He was a game manager on one of the best rosters in football, but he wasn't getting pro-bowl votes or all-pro nominations. No one gave him GOAT hype like we saw when Rodgers or Mahomes burst on the scene. And the two playoff games didn't help either.

Maybe I'm taking phenom too literally. But I remember his rookie year, and no one quite wanting to put him as a top 10 QB, as everyone was gun shy about what was being asked of him. It was excellent coaching by the Steelers, honestly, to put him in an ideal situation. But it was noticed, when people were evaluating/comparing him to others. The game wasn't as pass happy yet, but an almost 2 to 1 run/pass ratio was still pretty nutty at the time.

I called him a glorified game manager for like the first 3 years.

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, biggie. said:

I think what's amazing is how he looked like a total phenom as a rookie and won a SB in just his second year, but he never truly elevated his game to the next level. Not once named All-Pro and played poorly in all three Super Bowls.

He played in the same conference as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

1 hour ago, biggie. said:

And to be perfectly honest, when you factor in the physical tools he had it's a bit disappointing that he never became an elite player.

???? He was consistently a top-5 QB for the majority of his career.

Edited December 5, 2021 by JAF-N72EX

[NeptunePenguins]

Big Ben was just outside the big 4 in my opinion throughout his career. Never elite, but he likely would've been my 5th choice, above say Eli, Rivers, Romo, Ryan, Stafford ect. Any of the 5 guys could have had a better season than Big Ben one random year, but I believe overall Ben was the best QB of the bunch. 

[Soko]

6 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Aye, it's time for this gunslinger to ride off into the sunset. 

He'll be able to have played his HOF career all for one team. That's always pretty special. First ballot HOFer unquestionably, and the best QB that the Pittsburgh Steelers has ever had. 

Negative.

[NeptunePenguins]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Negative.

Perhaps he doesn't if Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben himself all retire the same year? Or does strength of class even matter for that kind of stuff?

[Soko]

13 minutes ago, NeptunePenguins said:

Perhaps he doesn't if Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben himself all retire the same year? Or does strength of class even matter for that kind of stuff?

Certainly would matter. I’m not even on board for Ben being a HOFer, let alone first ballot. 

[NeptunePenguins]

10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Certainly would matter. I’m not even on board for Ben being a HOFer, let alone first ballot. 

Wait you don't think he is a HOFer? Not even one of those old man ballot ones? 

[JAF-N72EX]

17 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I’m not even on board for Ben being a HOFer, let alone first ballot.

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

45 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Negative.

Edited December 5, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Soko]

20 minutes ago, NeptunePenguins said:

Wait you don't think he is a HOFer? Not even one of those old man ballot ones? 

Nope. Never an elite player at his position, never in discussion (not even once, like a Matt Ryan) for best at his position. Wouldn’t get the nod from me.

Very well may happen, FWIW. Ben wouldn’t be the first guy in there that is undeserving.

[CKSteeler]

Put a guy like Drew Brees in Pittsburgh with the offensive coaches Roethlisberger has had rather than Sean Payton, outside his comfy little dome, and a whole lot of people think very, very differently about Drew Brees. But there's no arguing with the stats without context people.

If the best offensive mind you had to work with your entire career now coaches high school football because no one else in the league wanted anything to do with him, maybe you weren't always put in the best position to succeed as an individual player.

[notthatbluestuff]

17 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Put a guy like Drew Brees in Pittsburgh with the offensive coaches Roethlisberger has had rather than Sean Payton, outside his comfy little dome, and a whole lot of people think very, very differently about Drew Brees. But there's no arguing with the stats without context people.

If the best offensive mind you had to work with your entire career now coaches high school football because no one else in the league wanted anything to do with him, maybe you weren't always put in the best position to succeed as an individual player.

Arians?