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Is Belichick a lock for coach of the year if the Patriots are the AFC’s 1-seed?


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18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

At the risk of getting a paragraph or two of sarcasm for a simple question, how many #1s do you think there are in the league? Just wondering because it’s interesting to see the other fans’ opinions on Jackson. UDFA that has had a ton of takeaways (not going to look, but have to think that he has some sort of record for interceptions from an UDFA in their first few years) but only recently took over the #1 role that NE’s liked to run with. 

Prior to this season, everyone would be on board with you. Seemed to be greatly benefiting from not having to be the main corner and letting Gilmore work. This year’s Jackson’s playing spectacularly in that role, although I wouldn’t call him shutdown in the Gilmore, Ramsey, Jaire sense. You don’t throw him on Diggs and expect Diggs to be quiet, the way you did with Gilmore. But I’d definitely view him as a high end corner, certainly #1 on most teams. 

I'll try to be as sarcasm free as possible, but no promises.

I won't pretend I have the most trained or discerning eye when it comes to scouting defensive back technique and talent. It's just a mix of reading what those who are ostensibly more learned than I are saying, and then just what my eyes see on the field. That said...

Without combing through every name, I'd guess there are really only, eh...3? and certainly not more than 5 CBs who I'd consider like, a true #1, shutdown-type corner. But even after that, I think Jackson's name is probably towards the bottom of the top 10, or maybe top 15 range. Ramsey, Jaire, Gilmore, White, Diggs, Humphrey, Lattimore, Howard, Ward all strike me as better. And then I dunno how other guys who come to mind are doing this year, maybe better maybe not: Peters, Jackson, Bradberry, Moore, Murphy, etc. I think he's in the mix there somewhere, probably a tad higher than most.

He seems like he just doesn't have top-end man coverage skills. He has pretty good CB size but I don't notice him using it all that well to go up against receivers. Now, the interceptions. This is a thorny one. On one hand, I won't lie. MOST of them I've seen, are of the variety that I chalk up to other factors: Luck, a bounce, or a QB just throwing a mind-numbingly stupid ball right at him. However, on the other hand, the sheer number of them is absolutely impressive and has to be more than complete luck. He's obviously gotta be a pretty heads-up guy out there, good hands, and good reaction time to snag a lot of those.

I dunno. He's a good cornerback, but somebody is going to pay him like a great one and I just wouldn't want it to be my team.

Oh, and I have to also mention this: When I talk about how he ranks among other CBs, and I say some other guys are better that some people may disagree with, my thinking is that in the Pats system, with BB scheming stuff up, they would be better than Jackson.

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58 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

At the risk of getting a paragraph or two of sarcasm for a simple question, how many #1s do you think there are in the league? Just wondering because it’s interesting to see the other fans’ opinions on Jackson. UDFA that has had a ton of takeaways (not going to look, but have to think that he has some sort of record for interceptions from an UDFA in their first few years) but only recently took over the #1 role that NE’s liked to run with. 

Prior to this season, everyone would be on board with you. Seemed to be greatly benefiting from not having to be the main corner and letting Gilmore work. This year’s Jackson’s playing spectacularly in that role, although I wouldn’t call him shutdown in the Gilmore, Ramsey, Jaire sense. You don’t throw him on Diggs and expect Diggs to be quiet, the way you did with Gilmore. But I’d definitely view him as a high end corner, certainly #1 on most teams. 

Oh forgot to mention: Go look at the Patriots schedule. Not exactly a murderer's row of #1 WRs. Or QBs for that matter. And for the rest of the way, it looks like the only really tough QB/WR combo will be Allen and Diggs again, as long as there isn't another typhoon going on.

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I think you have to give it to him. Yes the bar for BB is higher then most other coaches but this is the top seed proving that BB and Brady helped each other. Rookie makes it a bigger challenge but winning without Brady is the story. Neither of them have a monkey anymore. 

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10 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Oh forgot to mention: Go look at the Patriots schedule. Not exactly a murderer's row of #1 WRs. Or QBs for that matter. 

Granted, but he's handled the tests he's been given. Erased Mike Williams of the Chargers in week 8. He also did admirably against Mike Evans in week 4 and only allowed like 35 yards on 4 catches against Cooper/Lamb of the Cowboys in week 6.

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10 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Granted, but he's handled the tests he's been given. Erased Mike Williams of the Chargers in week 8. He also did admirably against Mike Evans in week 4 and only allowed like 35 yards on 4 catches against Cooper/Lamb of the Cowboys in week 6.

Evans is actually the type of receiver I think Jackson might do better against. A big athletic dude but isn't exactly nimble, quick in and out of breaks, or a precise route runner. And they kinda got each other back and forth that game. Also...man that game was weird. I've never seen Brady look quite like THAT before. His receivers let him down a few times, but he was also freaking OFF most of the night. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there. Legit never seen him like that before.

So, what do you want the Patriots to do with him? What kind of contract do you think he deserves, what would you pay him, and what do you think he'll get? Do you see him succeeding elsewhere?

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Just now, DannyB said:

Evans is actually the type of receiver I think Jackson might do better against. A big athletic dude but isn't exactly nimble, quick in and out of breaks, or a precise route runner. And they kinda got each other back and forth that game. Also...man that game was weird. I've never seen Brady look quite like THAT before. His receivers let him down a few times, but he was also freaking OFF most of the night. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there. Legit never seen him like that before.

So, what do you want the Patriots to do with him? What kind of contract do you think he deserves, what would you pay him, and what do you think he'll get? Do you see him succeeding elsewhere?

I think he'll get franchised

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6 hours ago, DannyB said:

I'll try to be as sarcasm free as possible, but no promises.

I won't pretend I have the most trained or discerning eye when it comes to scouting defensive back technique and talent. It's just a mix of reading what those who are ostensibly more learned than I are saying, and then just what my eyes see on the field. That said...

Without combing through every name, I'd guess there are really only, eh...3? and certainly not more than 5 CBs who I'd consider like, a true #1, shutdown-type corner. But even after that, I think Jackson's name is probably towards the bottom of the top 10, or maybe top 15 range. Ramsey, Jaire, Gilmore, White, Diggs, Humphrey, Lattimore, Howard, Ward all strike me as better. And then I dunno how other guys who come to mind are doing this year, maybe better maybe not: Peters, Jackson, Bradberry, Moore, Murphy, etc. I think he's in the mix there somewhere, probably a tad higher than most.

Don’t think that’s an unfair grouping to put him in (although I’d probably move Diggs a little due to less than a year of play at this level, and Howard down due to his play this season). Certainly not comparable to a healthy Gilmore, Ramsey, Jaire, Humphrey, or White. And I’d say comfortably behind Lattimore.

I’d call most, if not all, of those guys #1 corners, albeit only a few shutdown. That’s semantics though, so meh.

Quote

He seems like he just doesn't have top-end man coverage skills. He has pretty good CB size but I don't notice him using it all that well to go up against receivers. Now, the interceptions. This is a thorny one. On one hand, I won't lie. MOST of them I've seen, are of the variety that I chalk up to other factors: Luck, a bounce, or a QB just throwing a mind-numbingly stupid ball right at him. However, on the other hand, the sheer number of them is absolutely impressive and has to be more than complete luck. He's obviously gotta be a pretty heads-up guy out there, good hands, and good reaction time to snag a lot of those.

Man coverage is his strength, believe it or not. More than capable in zone, which they’ve been playing a lot of lately, but his ball skills and anticipation in man coverage are really his shining points. 

Quote

Oh, and I have to also mention this: When I talk about how he ranks among other CBs, and I say some other guys are better that some people may disagree with, my thinking is that in the Pats system, with BB scheming stuff up, they would be better than Jackson.

Very possible. Bill doesn’t really get cute with his CBs, though. He sort of did with those Revis/Browner matchups, and does still like to use his bigger CBs in creative ways at times, but Bill likes to let them do what they’re good at.

6 hours ago, DannyB said:

Oh forgot to mention: Go look at the Patriots schedule. Not exactly a murderer's row of #1 WRs. Or QBs for that matter. And for the rest of the way, it looks like the only really tough QB/WR combo will be Allen and Diggs again, as long as there isn't another typhoon going on.

I know you said you’re not a stats person, but JC’s career numbers vs #1s is impressive. 

5 hours ago, DannyB said:

So, what do you want the Patriots to do with him? What kind of contract do you think he deserves, what would you pay him, and what do you think he'll get? Do you see him succeeding elsewhere?

Expect the franchise tag, but would prefer to sign the guy long term. I think you pair him with another +corner, and that secondary becomes lethal again. Might need to find a McCourty replacement, though. Keeping Phillips around is a must too.

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No. It’s hands down Kingsbury. The Cards have the best record in the NFL, they are undefeated on the road and have way more impressive wins than the Pats. The only impressive win the Pats have is this Bills game in weather conditions that did them more of a favor than the Bills. The Cards demolished a healthy Titans team Week 1, they impressively beat the Rams in LA, and they impressively beat what was a Niners team that was starting to get healthy and hot in San Fran. I think they beat them too without Murray and Hopkins.

Not only that but many people, including myself, bash Kingsbury for never winning as a head coach on any level so he is finally doing so and that need to be recognized especially doing it in the tougher conference and division. So it’s not even a discussion, Kingsbury should be Coach of the Year and that should be the lock. 

 

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I'm not sure if Kliff winning with McCoy is more impressive than BB winning with Mac. Year in and year out, he posts a top 5 defense regardless of who is on the team. No Gilmore? No problem. I can see the voters becoming numb to it, but if he get's a #1 seed that's just incredible. Basically an instant rebuild.

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On 12/8/2021 at 4:07 AM, DannyB said:

I'll try to be as sarcasm free as possible, but no promises.

I won't pretend I have the most trained or discerning eye when it comes to scouting defensive back technique and talent. It's just a mix of reading what those who are ostensibly more learned than I are saying, and then just what my eyes see on the field. That said...

Without combing through every name, I'd guess there are really only, eh...3? and certainly not more than 5 CBs who I'd consider like, a true #1, shutdown-type corner. But even after that, I think Jackson's name is probably towards the bottom of the top 10, or maybe top 15 range. Ramsey, Jaire, Gilmore, White, Diggs, Humphrey, Lattimore, Howard, Ward all strike me as better. And then I dunno how other guys who come to mind are doing this year, maybe better maybe not: Peters, Jackson, Bradberry, Moore, Murphy, etc. I think he's in the mix there somewhere, probably a tad higher than most.

He seems like he just doesn't have top-end man coverage skills. He has pretty good CB size but I don't notice him using it all that well to go up against receivers. Now, the interceptions. This is a thorny one. On one hand, I won't lie. MOST of them I've seen, are of the variety that I chalk up to other factors: Luck, a bounce, or a QB just throwing a mind-numbingly stupid ball right at him. However, on the other hand, the sheer number of them is absolutely impressive and has to be more than complete luck. He's obviously gotta be a pretty heads-up guy out there, good hands, and good reaction time to snag a lot of those.

I dunno. He's a good cornerback, but somebody is going to pay him like a great one and I just wouldn't want it to be my team.

Oh, and I have to also mention this: When I talk about how he ranks among other CBs, and I say some other guys are better that some people may disagree with, my thinking is that in the Pats system, with BB scheming stuff up, they would be better than Jackson.

Tell you what he is really good at, covering deep. No cornerback in the league has been more productive on passes 20 or more yards downfield over the span of his first 3 seasons. He allowed just five of 48 targets at that depth to be completed, tallying 11 interceptions in the process. 

I think he's well suited to take on a Diggs or Evans type, but maybe wouldn't want him on a Brown or Kupp

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24 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Tell you what he is really good at, covering deep. No cornerback in the league has been more productive on passes 20 or more yards downfield over the span of his first 3 seasons. He allowed just five of 48 targets at that depth to be completed, tallying 11 interceptions in the process. 

I think he's well suited to take on a Diggs or Evans type, but maybe wouldn't want him on a Brown or Kupp

See but I'd liken Diggs more to that latter group than I would to Evans.

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