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5 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Congrats on accomplishing what you have thus far.

I wanted to highlight this b/c this is where I'm at as well but it's not really our fault. I wear and 32, 33, or 34 waste line depending on what store I'm shopping in. This shouldn't vary b/c it's a measurement and measurements are not subjective lol. It is insanely frustrating trying to remember which stores run smaller, larger, or.... correct? This is a any sized person problem though lol. 

Sorry to piggyback on your post to vent but it was needed. I feel better now lol.

I’m pretty sure it’s called vanity sizing, and I don’t like it either. I’ve dropped some weight, and I can now fit back into a pair of old 34 jeans. I have another pair of 34’s that are way too tight.

I guess you could see that as body positivity or negativity depending on your outlook because the actual measurement of my waist would be higher than 34”. Lol

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1 hour ago, JohnChimpo said:

I’m pretty sure it’s called vanity sizing, and I don’t like it either. I’ve dropped some weight, and I can now fit back into a pair of old 34 jeans. I have another pair of 34’s that are way too tight.

I guess you could see that as body positivity or negativity depending on your outlook because the actual measurement of my waist would be higher than 34”. Lol

I definitely went off on a tangent lol. I am slightly overweight for my height but nothing too crazy and I'm content although if I dropped another size, I wouldn't be sad. I'll take it as positivity!

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On 12/17/2021 at 1:04 PM, BobbyPhil1781 said:

OK I tend to agree so if everyone else agrees, wouldn't this produce a flaw in the "studies" being done on what body type women find attractive? I bet the answers would vary, widely, if you went to different areas of the country to conduct that study.

The quote of mine that started this discussion I think removes a lot of context. Nobody is claiming dadbod > all. The post I replied to that you quoted made the claim that, above all else, physical strength is the primary feature that women find attractive and rate as most important.

Of course there will be variance. Of course a number of people will prefer a more muscular appearance. The point is, the trend across a number of surveys, appears to be that physical appearance is less important to female-identifying people than male-identifying people tend to assume. And specifically, a hulked out musculature is not the desirable look.

People also tend to be assuming dadbod is associated with being overweight. It’s not. It pretty much means not particularly fit or muscular.

The overarching point is, being a lean, muscular specimen isn’t some guarantee of companionship. There are a number of other features that are far more important than how much you lift or how low your body fat is.

And finally, it also should bear noticing that the people who argue most vocally about how much women definitely want the muscular, fit guy … tend to be men. Because again, that muscular ideal is a male ideal.

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2 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

The quote of mine that started this discussion I think removes a lot of context. Nobody is claiming dadbod > all. The post I replied to that you quoted made the claim that, above all else, physical strength is the primary feature that women find attractive and rate as most important.

Of course there will be variance. Of course a number of people will prefer a more muscular appearance. The point is, the trend across a number of surveys, appears to be that physical appearance is less important to female-identifying people than male-identifying people tend to assume. And specifically, a hulked out musculature is not the desirable look.

People also tend to be assuming dadbod is associated with being overweight. It’s not. It pretty much means not particularly fit or muscular.

The overarching point is, being a lean, muscular specimen isn’t some guarantee of companionship. There are a number of other features that are far more important than how much you lift or how low your body fat is.

And finally, it also should bear noticing that the people who argue most vocally about how much women definitely want the muscular, fit guy … tend to be men. Because again, that muscular ideal is a male ideal.

I don't think any body type guarantees anything pertaining to the opposite sex. All I'm saying is that I think studies can be misleading at times b/c the area in which they were conducted is important. If you poll 500 women in Venice Beach, their answers will be wildly different than 500 people in an area where image isn't as important. Say, podunk Ohio.... maybe. Those farm girls might like the body of a dude who can toss a bail of hay like it's a newspaper lol.

I tend to lean more towards image being important but that's only b/c I feel my image is important for myself accompanied by my own life experiences and the many things I've seen in my trips around the sun. I'm probably 10-15 lbs overweight which is something I try to maintain and while some of it is b/c I don't want to let myself go but more importantly that it's a healthier lifestyle to have. I would hope that most people feel that way b/c it's just the truth. I respect some people have a more difficult time achieving that than others and don't fault them for it.

I'm not trying to generalize anything is better than another nor preferred to women. I try my best to never generalize b/c it takes individuality out of the equation and that's simply something I don't want to do. I do slip up from time to time though. I just made a point that I feel study results will vary based on where the study was conducted and I don't think many would disagree.

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1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I don't think any body type guarantees anything pertaining to the opposite sex. All I'm saying is that I think studies can be misleading at times b/c the area in which they were conducted is important. If you poll 500 women in Venice Beach, their answers will be wildly different than 500 people in an area where image isn't as important. Say, podunk Ohio.... maybe. Those farm girls might like the body of a dude who can toss a bail of hay like it's a newspaper lol.

I tend to lean more towards image being important but that's only b/c I feel my image is important for myself accompanied by my own life experiences and the many things I've seen in my trips around the sun. I'm probably 10-15 lbs overweight which is something I try to maintain and while some of it is b/c I don't want to let myself go but more importantly that it's a healthier lifestyle to have. I would hope that most people feel that way b/c it's just the truth. I respect some people have a more difficult time achieving that than others and don't fault them for it.

I'm not trying to generalize anything is better than another nor preferred to women. I try my best to never generalize b/c it takes individuality out of the equation and that's simply something I don't want to do. I do slip up from time to time though. I just made a point that I feel study results will vary based on where the study was conducted and I don't think many would disagree.

That’s certainly true. There will be variance depending on a number of circumstances. The trend remains fairly consistent, even within that framework. But personal tastes definitely may vary.

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13 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I don't think any body type guarantees anything pertaining to the opposite sex. All I'm saying is that I think studies can be misleading at times b/c the area in which they were conducted is important. If you poll 500 women in Venice Beach, their answers will be wildly different than 500 people in an area where image isn't as important. Say, podunk Ohio.... maybe. Those farm girls might like the body of a dude who can toss a bail of hay like it's a newspaper lol.

I tend to lean more towards image being important but that's only b/c I feel my image is important for myself accompanied by my own life experiences and the many things I've seen in my trips around the sun. I'm probably 10-15 lbs overweight which is something I try to maintain and while some of it is b/c I don't want to let myself go but more importantly that it's a healthier lifestyle to have. I would hope that most people feel that way b/c it's just the truth. I respect some people have a more difficult time achieving that than others and don't fault them for it.

I'm not trying to generalize anything is better than another nor preferred to women. I try my best to never generalize b/c it takes individuality out of the equation and that's simply something I don't want to do. I do slip up from time to time though. I just made a point that I feel study results will vary based on where the study was conducted and I don't think many would disagree.

Quite honestly, it's easy to mock some of the super cut "roid bois" or whatever, who make up the vanity build.  A lot of those people have never done a day of real labour in their lives.  Funny when they end up on "cowboy calendars" and stuff.

But just generally having the endurance and stamina to toss hay all day, comes with a certain attractive cowboy physique too.  And it's pretty darn obvious, when you're doing that work regularly.  It's not too far off that "idealized" whatever.

 

Idk.  As someone conscripted to load 500-1000 bales every year into and out of a horse trailer.  Loading, unloading, stacking in a barn with no bale elevator (which ******* sucks).  Tossing bales is one thing.  That's nothing, i do it all the time, any time i'm there.  Even "heavy" alfalfa bales ain't ****.  Dusty as heck, but you can toss 'em around one at a time.  Doing it repetitively all day in a poorly ventilated space?  It's more of an endurance thing.  Even the "technique" part isn't difficult.  Unless you chronically skip leg day.

 

I've had years where i've had to walk outside and vomit.  Just dead.  Dehydrated, gassed, empty.

I've had years where it's been alright, but not fun.

I've had years where i was half-cocked and drinking shots of whiskey in between runs.

I've had years where it's been actually pretty easy.

 

The last of which, being the years where i was just really ready to do a ton of cardiovascular work.  Regularly running a ton of miles or whatever.  Years where i'd go into feeling like i've got miles to spare.  But it really is a wildcard, when you're moving hay.  Some years it's just sweltering temps and you die no matter what.  Sometimes it's intermittent rain and you hustle yourself silly trying to load when it's not raining.  But anyway...idk a hay bale that gets tossed like paper.  that's Straw.

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There's also a difference between sexual attraction/desire and what you look for in a potential partner/father.

I think girls are also very insecure and get intimidated by "cowboy calendars" so they may lean towards the Dad Bod thinking they aren't good enough for the cowboy.  Too many variables to go off studies/polls.

But at the very least men should strive to be in better shape than we currently are.

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On 12/8/2021 at 1:25 PM, JoshstraDaymus said:

Hello fellow members of a predominately male website. I come to you with a question, and mods if this gets out of hand, you can lock this thread. For some reason, the bot on reddit keeps flagging me, but it's honestly just for research purposes.

Body positivity is a pretty hot button topic in the world these days, but as a man, I feel like there are times where this topic is only pertaining to womens body standards.

Let me elaborate.

I'm losing weight, but for the most part my entire life I've been a bigger guy. Also as a bigger guy, I like more form fitting clothing than I do baggy (I think baggy clothes on a big man like myself is slovenly but thats just me). Old Navy is running a great body positivity campaign, but in my mind it feels like it's a female exclusive thing. They parade out plus sized models for women and show them in their clothing, but men don't get the same treatment. I'm aware of some of the privileges I have as a man, but in my mind, to an extent it makes me feel like my perspective doesn't matter.

Look, I have a great way about my personal style, I'm pretty cognizant about what I own, wear, and like so putting myself into something really isn't hard, but I am not the rule. I have friends who shy away from things because they don't see themselves in it because it doesn't seem like their body types are embraced. My thought is I just want to see body equality passed along from person to person regardless of sex.

I just wanted to see if I can get some other peoples respectful perspectives.

First off, congrats on your weight loss and improvement.  I’ve done the same over the past two years, and am down 200 pounds.  It’s amazing what some motivation and time away from a routine will do.  

I will say this……it is definitely a female exclusive thing as it pertains to how the media and companies portray this as far as advertising goes.  However, people in my life, even now, are saying to be happy in your own skin, you look great the way you are, etc.  

Some of that are from my grandmother and older people in my church, and I get that is a generational thing.  They grew up during the Great Depression and WW2, so they think being that thin is an issue in case times get tough and you don’t have a lot of food.  I am 5’10, 195, and they think I’m too skinny.  Fact is, my BMI still classifies me as overweight.  However, I run 5-7 miles a day, usually between 9-9:30 a mile, work on my feet for half the day and walk two miles at night.  I am pretty in shape, especially compared to where I was two years ago.

At some point, my weight got out of my control.  I developed obstructive sleep apnea and that caused me to fall asleep during work, fall asleep when I got home, and wrecked my diet.  I wouldn’t cook for myself and would have fast food all of the time.  So I try not to judge people when I see them, because you don’t know where they are on that spectrum.  

But I rarely had people who challenged me on my health.  My doctors never really did, my friends never did, my family rarely pushed.  I think we’ve gotten to this point of being so protective of feelings on a personal level that we ignore how people are self-destructing their health.  And yes, the media portrayal of body positivity goes a long way with this.  

So we have to walk a fine line between the two.  I am all for people living a healthy lifestyle and doing all they can, still being overweight but being happy with themselves.  What I am not OK with are the people who are morbidly obese and doing nothing about it, and not asking for help…….which was me two years ago.  If I can ever be that person for someone, I will always help them out.  The amount of my friends and co-workers who say I am motivating them is humbling.

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3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

First off, congrats on your weight loss and improvement.  I’ve done the same over the past two years, and am down 200 pounds.  It’s amazing what some motivation and time away from a routine will do.  

I will say this……it is definitely a female exclusive thing as it pertains to how the media and companies portray this as far as advertising goes.  However, people in my life, even now, are saying to be happy in your own skin, you look great the way you are, etc.  

Some of that are from my grandmother and older people in my church, and I get that is a generational thing.  They grew up during the Great Depression and WW2, so they think being that thin is an issue in case times get tough and you don’t have a lot of food.  I am 5’10, 195, and they think I’m too skinny.  Fact is, my BMI still classifies me as overweight.  However, I run 5-7 miles a day, usually between 9-9:30 a mile, work on my feet for half the day and walk two miles at night.  I am pretty in shape, especially compared to where I was two years ago.

At some point, my weight got out of my control.  I developed obstructive sleep apnea and that caused me to fall asleep during work, fall asleep when I got home, and wrecked my diet.  I wouldn’t cook for myself and would have fast food all of the time.  So I try not to judge people when I see them, because you don’t know where they are on that spectrum.  

But I rarely had people who challenged me on my health.  My doctors never really did, my friends never did, my family rarely pushed.  I think we’ve gotten to this point of being so protective of feelings on a personal level that we ignore how people are self-destructing their health.  And yes, the media portrayal of body positivity goes a long way with this.  

So we have to walk a fine line between the two.  I am all for people living a healthy lifestyle and doing all they can, still being overweight but being happy with themselves.  What I am not OK with are the people who are morbidly obese and doing nothing about it, and not asking for help…….which was me two years ago.  If I can ever be that person for someone, I will always help them out.  The amount of my friends and co-workers who say I am motivating them is humbling.

Excellent post.


Doctors should speak up to their patients about diet and exercise.

As far as everyone else, if a person is happy with how they look and feel, then I don’t say anything to them. It’s the ones that aren’t happy with their bodies who feel powerless to do anything about it that I want to help because I’ve been there before.

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1 hour ago, JohnChimpo said:

Excellent post.


Doctors should speak up to their patients about diet and exercise.

As far as everyone else, if a person is happy with how they look and feel, then I don’t say anything to them. It’s the ones that aren’t happy with their bodies who feel powerless to do anything about it that I want to help because I’ve been there before.

The problem is out of X amount of years of schooling and residency, <1% covers diet and exercise.

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9 hours ago, JohnChimpo said:

That’s a huge problem. It seems like almost all the focus is on treatment, but there needs to be a lot more focus on prevention of illness.

Reminds me of the old religious joke, "I ask for forgiveness, not permission" kind of thing. But instead here we ask how to fix things, not to prevent FUBAR-ing them up. This includes our health sadly.

 

 

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