Mox Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JoshstraDaymus said: Toxic masculinity permeates as long as you let it. Also the straight irony of saying toxic masculinity isn't an issue all while indemnifying an era and calling it the least masculine era is hilarious. It's factually the least masculine era ever. Testosterone levels are a fraction of what were 50 years ago. That is fact. If your issue with that statement is semantics, so be it. I didn't say it's not an issue, I said it's not the major issue it's hyped as. Edited December 9, 2021 by Bullet Club 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I don't really understand the joke. Are you saying this isn't the least masculine era ever? If I’m being honest, I’ve never really sat down and put together my own list of eras ranked by masculinity. And before I do that, who gets to define all the masculine traits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If I’m being honest, I’ve never really sat down and put together my own list of eras ranked by masculinity. And before I do that, who gets to define all the masculine traits? I mean the most objective way would be by testosterone levels, which are at all time lows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If I’m being honest, I’ve never really sat down and put together my own list of eras ranked by masculinity. And before I do that, who gets to define all the masculine traits? BRO early 1700s Western Europe is peak MASCULINITY. Total chads wearing makeup, wigs, lace, fake beauty marks and high heels. Edited December 9, 2021 by animaltested 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, mission27 said: There's absolutely a difference between the two sexes. But shouldn't the focus be on women? Women face significantly more body image pressure than men. Its not even close. Tbh how many men who are within semi-normal bounds of fitness will ever face body image shaming? Nobody has ever shamed me for not having a six pack. The bar for men is way lower. And, frankly, many of us would argue the body positivity movement has gone overboard. Instead of focusing on promoting mental and physical health in the vast majority of women (and men), it increasingly focuses on enabling behaviors and lifestyles that are not only personally unhealthy but have enormous social cost to the rest of us. At the same time, it often leads to people being shamed for having exceptional fitness or beauty, or these traits being minimized as superficial/toxic. Fitness and beauty also take work and are traits we have celebrated throughout human history and they should not be sacrificed at the altar of the obese tbh. I agree 100% with all of this. There's a difference between loving and accepting body positivity (GREAT) and somehow being made to feel bad if you criticize people who have some negative lifestyle choices ala Lizzo. And for the record, I'm 100% not trying to be mean or a jerk here. I wish my dad would have taken better care of himself. While a lot of his issues were genetic and there was nothing he could do about them, some things were in his control. It in no way diminishes the respect or love that I have/had for him (he passed away), I really wish he'd have made diet and exercise more of a priority for himself, because I/my family would have benefitted more. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said: Except the issue is the media has over exaggerated it and blatantly lied about it. That's just the media, they lie and mislead about pretty much anything for ratings But the dude should lose some weight for real 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, JoshstraDaymus said: You're not kididng, and if you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation then why even make your presence in thread? Is pointing out the absurdity of some of the posts in this thread not constructive? I have no issue with your posts, it’s a fine discussion. Some of the other stuff has been goofy af. Lots of manufactured outrage imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I mean the most objective way would be by testosterone levels, which are at all time lows. Well that’s not really a measure of any other trait or attribute, just a hormone level. If that’s the measure, do I become an ultra Chad by hitting up the dude at my local gym and go ham with a killer cycle? Is that how one would develop masculine traits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I've always had the hard time with it seemingly being an off the cuff trump card with those who disagree with the values of traditional masculinity (most of which I'm highly in favor of). I'm not sure if that makes sense. Totally agree The problem I have with the concept of toxic masculinity is it groups together physical violence (which yes, is an overwhelmingly masculine and negative trait) with a lot of other traditionally masculine traits that have social utility, like stoicism 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Well that’s not really a measure of any other trait or attribute, just a hormone level. If that’s the measure, do I become an ultra Chad by hitting up the dude at my local gym and go ham with a killer cycle? Is that how one would develop masculine traits? Can't hurt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 @LETSGOBROWNIES doing his best to really ostracize both ends of this discussion, and I'm here for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mission27 said: He's a professional athlete making millions who has struggled to stay on the court, staying in shape is basically his whole job, I think its fair for fans and the media to question whether his fitness and conditioning is contributing to that and whether he's doing enough to rehab. He's not just some random 20-year-old kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, Blackstar12 said: I have pretty minimal sympathy for athletes making tens of millions who get made fun of on TV tbh Tbh I generally find it quite amusing and its very very low on the list of world issues to care about 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mission27 said: Totally agree The problem I have with the concept of toxic masculinity is it groups together physical violence (which yes, is an overwhelmingly masculine and negative trait) with a lot of other traditionally masculine traits that have social utility, like stoicism 100% agreed here. Even then, while physical violence is an inherently negative masculine trait, I love football, I appreciate a good boxing/MMA match or movie, I like dudes who step up to the plate and hit bombs, etc. I'm physically very attracted to my wife who is WAY hotter than me (I'm sure this is the case for most of us), and I generally don't display a lot of emotion/negative emotion...and guess what? That doesn't make me toxic, nor is it bad if other guys are more emotional and cry more or appreciate the arts as opposed to football or what not. Edited December 9, 2021 by MWil23 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Using testosterone to judge masculinity is silly, since most of the criteria we use to judge masculinity is performative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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