⏰ to completely clean house

[jpaulthe1st]

24 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Rodgers had Driver, Jennings, Jones, and Nelson up to 2011 when they added Cobb to the group. In 2012 they added Finley at TE.  2013 was a lean year with just Jones, Nelson, and Cobb to rely on. In 14 they added Adams. 2016 was Cobb, Nelson, and added Cook at TE.  2018 they added MVS and Lazard and Graham and Lewis. 

Yes, Rodgers could've always used "more" weaponry than he ultimately got, but the cupboard was never bare. 

Luck walked into Wayne, Hilton, Allen, Fleener and then got (albeit old) Andre Johnson. Again, never the greatest lineups, but hardly a bare cupboard to work with.

I'll give that Luck very well may have pulled them above the sum of their parts, but he was also hailed as one of the best prospects of all time and a once in a lifetime talent. 

 

MVS, Graham, Lazard, and Lewis is lackluster. That’s the time period I was referring to. 
 

Agreed on Luck. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by jpaulthe1st

[ronjon1990]

7 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

MVS, Graham, Lazard, and Lewis is lackluster. That’s the time period I was referring to. 
 

Agreed on Luck. 

Lackluster doesn't equal bad though. 

All 4 of them may be better as contributing role players, but all 4 of them undoubtedly deserve to play on Sundays. 

Unless you're playing fantasy or Madden Franchise with the cap turned off, no team is going to assemble a ton of firepower AND keep it AND be as good as the Packers have been year in, year out. 

[jpaulthe1st]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

Lackluster doesn't equal bad though. 

All 4 of them may be better as contributing role players, but all 4 of them undoubtedly deserve to play on Sundays. 

Unless you're playing fantasy or Madden Franchise with the cap turned off, no team is going to assemble a ton of firepower AND keep it AND be as good as the Packers have been year in, year out. 

The way I see it lackluster is synonymous with bad. That group (MVS, Lazard, ancient Lewis, and ancient Graham) is straight up bad. So bad that Rodgers was ready to walk when they drafted Jordan Love instead of a WR. Granted, adding the top WR in the NFL to that group made it serviceable but whenever Adams missed time it was close to a league worst group. 

[ronjon1990]

10 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

The way I see it lackluster is synonymous with bad. That group (MVS, Lazard, ancient Lewis, and ancient Graham) is straight up bad. So bad that Rodgers was ready to walk when they drafted Jordan Love instead of a WR. Granted, adding the top WR in the NFL to that group made it serviceable but whenever Adams missed time it was close to a league worst group. 

MVS, Lazard, Lewis/Graham/Tonyan, and even ESB cannot, under any conventional understanding of the word, be equated to "bad". 

Rodgers wanted 2 Davante Adams. And hey, I would too. Everyone would. And one can argue that the Packers royally screwed up by not going after a WR early instead of a reserve QB simply because they were in position to and didn't. 

But he wasn't playing with a "bad" roster. That's just silly. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by ronjon1990

[jpaulthe1st]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

MVS, Lazard, Lewis/Graham/Tonyan, and even ESB cannot, under any conventional understanding of the word, be equated to "bad". 

Rodgers wanted 2 Davante Adams. And hey, I would too. Everyone would. And one can argue that the Packers royally screwed up by not going after a WR early instead of a reserve QB simply because they were in position to and didn't. 

But he wasn't playing with a "bad" roster. That's just silly. 

In 2018 Jimmy Graham led that group with 55 catches 636 yards and 2 TD’s. 

In 2019, Jimmy Graham led that group with 38 catches and Lazard led with 477 yards and 3 TD’s. 
 

That’s bad in every conventional understanding of the word. 
 

 

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Isn't that most QBs? 

Not to nitpick, but name a Pro Bowl QB that routinely plays with this little talent around them? 

Our 100% is a good team's 75-80% if we're generous. 

People always talk about "elevating talent", but outside of Brady, how many of the "greats" have had little to work with? 

Not saying have nothing to work with but if it starts to go bad you see Carr spiral.  This year was an extreme case but he has shown in the past that he struggles with adverse circumstances more than you would expect.  I am not saying get rid of Carr or extend Carr.  I am saying and have been saying we need something to compare him to.  Everyone will struggle when circumstances change for the worse but some adapt and overcome.  Carr is not that type of player to me.  I see people like this all the time that when the pressure becomes to much they collapse and say what did you expect me to do.

[ronjon1990]

19 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Not saying have nothing to work with but if it starts to go bad you see Carr spiral.  This year was an extreme case but he has shown in the past that he struggles with adverse circumstances more than you would expect.  I am not saying get rid of Carr or extend Carr.  I am saying and have been saying we need something to compare him to.  Everyone will struggle when circumstances change for the worse but some adapt and overcome.  Carr is not that type of player to me.  I see people like this all the time that when the pressure becomes to much they collapse and say what did you expect me to do.

This, I agree with.

[ronjon1990]

26 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

In 2018 Jimmy Graham led that group with 55 catches 636 yards and 2 TD’s. 

In 2019, Jimmy Graham led that group with 38 catches and Lazard led with 477 yards and 3 TD’s. 
 

That’s bad in every conventional understanding of the word. 
 

 

You are aware that big numbers only mean something for fantasy like 99% of the time, no?

They had multiple weapons vying for targets, which means the ball is spread around more. 

But, sure, MVS, Lazard, and Graham/Lewis is a ****e bunch of scrubs alright! You sound ridiculous. 

[MrOaktown_56]

When mayock gets fired, mark can point to the chiefs game and the “rebuilt” OL as the reason why. Legit someone got beat every snap in the run/pass game. Absolute garbage. No one should start next year but James and Miller. Idc if everyone else is gone.

[MrOaktown_56]

29 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Not saying have nothing to work with but if it starts to go bad you see Carr spiral.  This year was an extreme case but he has shown in the past that he struggles with adverse circumstances more than you would expect.  I am not saying get rid of Carr or extend Carr.  I am saying and have been saying we need something to compare him to.  Everyone will struggle when circumstances change for the worse but some adapt and overcome.  Carr is not that type of player to me.  I see people like this all the time that when the pressure becomes to much they collapse and say what did you expect me to do.

If we’re being honest, theres pretty much nothing he could have done Sunday to change the outcome. This team is a mess offensively rn. Looks like 2014/2018 outside of renfrow with Waller out.

[jpaulthe1st]

52 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

You are aware that big numbers only mean something for fantasy like 99% of the time, no?

They had multiple weapons vying for targets, which means the ball is spread around more. 

But, sure, MVS, Lazard, and Graham/Lewis is a ****e bunch of scrubs alright! You sound ridiculous. 

You sound emotional. Every one of your replies read like an angry teenager that can’t fathom another human having a different perspective.  
 

To respond to your point, that receiving corps was either all below average in general or below average in that point of their careers. Lazard and MVS will be 4/5 receivers anywhere they go outside of Green Bay and Graham was a shell of his New Orleans self. Marcedes Lewis is Marcedes Lewis. 
 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by jpaulthe1st

[ronjon1990]

11 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

You sound emotional. Every one of your replies read like an angry teenager that can’t fathom another human having a different perspective.  
 

To respond to your point, that receiving corps was either all below average in general or below average in that point of their careers. Lazard and MVS will be 4/5 receivers anywhere they go outside of Green Bay and Graham was a shell of his New Orleans self. Marcedes Lewis is Marcedes Lewis. 
 

 

Cool story bro, it's a forum. The "you sound" trope based on written words is one of the most laughable things out there. A real savant, eh? Maybe go back to not posting? Everyone knows things always get better when J Paul the 1st leaves the stage anyway. I can fathom other perspectives when they're remotely objectively rational. Your's aren't. 

 

To respond to your point...wait, you don't seem to have one other than calling a decent group of players "bad" to pimp up a QB who definitely doesn't need pimping up. It's a bad take all around. Not a single person with any football knowledge would call that a "bad" group. But, hey, if your understanding of the word "lackluster" equals "bad".....  

[jpaulthe1st]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Cool story bro, it's a forum. The "you sound" trope based on written words is one of the most laughable things out there. A real savant, eh? Maybe go back to not posting? Everyone knows things always get better when J Paul the 1st leaves the stage anyway. I can fathom other perspectives when they're remotely objectively rational. Your's aren't. 

 

To respond to your point...wait, you don't seem to have one other than calling a decent group of players "bad" to pimp up a QB who definitely doesn't need pimping up. It's a bad take all around. Not a single person with any football knowledge would call that a "bad" group. But, hey, if your understanding of the word "lackluster" equals "bad".....  

Again…you sound emotional. No substance…just petty insults on a discussion forum. I’m done with you big fella 

[jimkelly02]

I didn’t like the hire initially because of the scheme, but really liked his ability to bring in good players and coach them.  Ideally Bradley would just convert to a cover 4 Scheme.

if Bradley is gone I’d really like to see a 2 High FS cover 4 aka quarters scheme.

[jimkelly02]

37 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Cool story bro, it's a forum. The "you sound" trope based on written words is one of the most laughable things out there. A real savant, eh? Maybe go back to not posting? Everyone knows things always get better when J Paul the 1st leaves the stage anyway. I can fathom other perspectives when they're remotely objectively rational. Your's aren't. 

 

To respond to your point...wait, you don't seem to have one other than calling a decent group of players "bad" to pimp up a QB who definitely doesn't need pimping up. It's a bad take all around. Not a single person with any football knowledge would call that a "bad" group. But, hey, if your understanding of the word "lackluster" equals "bad".....  

I’m not taking any sides here, honestly barely read the discussion.  I stepped away from posting here somewhat do to work, but mainly because the level of discussion on this board is horrible.  Unless your agreeing with someone it turns into a ****e show.  This place needs some better decorum.