drfrey13 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think there's some reasons to be optimistic about Leatherwood long term, he may not have learned much but he's also being coached by Tom Cable so hopefully we hire an actual OL coach. Kolton Miller was probably the worst LT in the NFL as a rookie, IIRC he gave up the most sacks by a starting OT in NFL history that year and he's developed into an above average OT. I think he's probably better suited to be a guard but since we drafted him so early might as well give him another shot to compete to be a starting OT. As you said he's made the same mistakes throughout the season but those mistakes have been mental lapses. Dude is big, long, and athletic. He has the tools to be a good player he just has to put it all together. Not saying you are wrong but Miller was injured badly his rookie year and that is when things fell apart for him. He had no business being on the field. Cable is a good o-line coach but makes horrible personnel decisions. He can mold the clay but does a bad job of choosing the clay to start with. Also loves trying to fit square pegs into round holes. If Leatherwood can play RT then good. If not he will be our RG and backup LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think there's some reasons to be optimistic about Leatherwood long term, he may not have learned much but he's also being coached by Tom Cable so hopefully we hire an actual OL coach. Kolton Miller was probably the worst LT in the NFL as a rookie, IIRC he gave up the most sacks by a starting OT in NFL history that year and he's developed into an above average OT. I think he's probably better suited to be a guard but since we drafted him so early might as well give him another shot to compete to be a starting OT. As you said he's made the same mistakes throughout the season but those mistakes have been mental lapses. Dude is big, long, and athletic. He has the tools to be a good player he just has to put it all together. It's undeniable he's getting better as the season progressive. Edited December 17, 2021 by Bitty 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Just now, drfrey13 said: Not saying you are wrong but Miller was injured badly his rookie year and that is when things fell apart for him. He had no business being on the field. Cable is a good o-line coach but makes horrible personnel decisions. He can mold the clay but does a bad job of choosing the clay to start with. Also loves trying to fit square pegs into round holes. If Leatherwood can play RT then good. If not he will be our RG and backup LT. Miller may have been injured but he was rated as a late first, early second round type prospect entering the draft and everyone thought it was a reach when we drafted him at #15. And I disagree that Cable is a good offensive line coach, he gutted Seattle's OL and they became one of the worst in the NFL and he has done the same here. Our OL looked good with a top 15 pick and 3 all-pro level players in Incognito, Brown, and Hudson. When Cable finally got all of his guys the OL became one of the worst units in the league instantly. Outside of Kolton, what OL has Cable coached up into a good player for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Miller may have been injured but he was rated as a late first, early second round type prospect entering the draft and everyone thought it was a reach when we drafted him at #15. And I disagree that Cable is a good offensive line coach, he gutted Seattle's OL and they became one of the worst in the NFL and he has done the same here. Our OL looked good with a top 15 pick and 3 all-pro level players in Incognito, Brown, and Hudson. When Cable finally got all of his guys the OL became one of the worst units in the league instantly. Outside of Kolton, what OL has Cable coached up into a good player for us? That was my point. Although I believe he knows how to teach he makes poor decisions when picking players and where to play players. I too think Miller was drafted early the same as Leatherwood and Parker but Miller worked out. Edited December 17, 2021 by drfrey13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: That was my point. Although I believe he knows how to teach he makes poor decisions when picking players and where to play players. I too think Miller was drafted early the same as Leatherwood and Parker but Miller worked out. I think the sign of a good offensive line coach is being able to get the most out of guys you drafted or brought in. Most offensive line coaches would do well with Kolton, Incognito, Hudson, Jackson, and Trent. Essentially everyone he brought in outside of Kolton has been a bust and haven't gotten better at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Miller may have been injured but he was rated as a late first, early second round type prospect entering the draft and everyone thought it was a reach when we drafted him at #15. And I disagree that Cable is a good offensive line coach, he gutted Seattle's OL and they became one of the worst in the NFL and he has done the same here. Our OL looked good with a top 15 pick and 3 all-pro level players in Incognito, Brown, and Hudson. When Cable finally got all of his guys the OL became one of the worst units in the league instantly. Outside of Kolton, what OL has Cable coached up into a good player for us? Andre James. He’s played well the past 6-7 games (especially in pass pro). Still want Cable gone ASAP though Edited December 17, 2021 by jpaulthe1st 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 55 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said: Andre James. He’s played well the past 6-7 games (especially in pass pro). Still want Cable gone ASAP though Andre James has been about average at best. We have the 30th best running game in the NFL and Carr was just pressured more last week then any game in his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Andre James has been about average at best. We have the 30th best running game in the NFL and Carr was just pressured more last week then any game in his entire career. Average is still something. Parker and leatherwood are somehow getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: Average is still something. Parker and leatherwood are somehow getting worse. Yeah James has surprised me and likely earned at least another year of job security but Cable has proven to be a terrible OL coach. The only reason our OL was good with him is because we had elite talent across the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Statistically speaking, Cable has always had a terrible pass blocking Olines. And okay run blocking Olines. How this man is thought of so highly, I will never understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Statistically speaking, Cable has always had a terrible pass blocking Olines. And okay run blocking Olines. How this man is thought of so highly, I will never understand. The offensive line guru, dude gutted Seattle's OL into a terrible unit then did the same thing here. Even took Leatherwood who was a LT that projected as a RT in the 1st round and immediately moved him inside. The exact same thing he did with fellow Alabama alumni James Carpenter in Seattle, lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Average is still something. Parker and leatherwood are somehow getting worse. Kolt has been getting worked lately also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: The offensive line guru, dude gutted Seattle's OL into a terrible unit then did the same thing here. Even took Leatherwood who was a LT that projected as a RT in the 1st round and immediately moved him inside. The exact same thing he did with fellow Alabama alumni James Carpenter in Seattle, lmao. HIs problem is that he believes he can just plug and play players where ever he wants if they meet the measurables. You can coach up a player to be better than he would have been otherwise but each individual will learn at a different rate, have different starting point, and different ceilings. Cable might be able to coach up a player at a faster rate then other coaches but if he chooses to play a player at a position they play at a lower level and take longer to learn you would have been better off taking a player with less talent but a better player at his natural position then the player with more talent. It is not rocket science to see that his issue is thinking he is better than he is with personnel and projecting a players position. Was Donald Penn a horrible RT because Cable could not coach? No. He was a pro bowler in 2016 and 2017 but moved to the RT in 2018 and played bad because Cable thought he could be a good RT. Is Parker a bad RT because Cable can not coach? No. He is bad because he does not have the footwork, muscle memory, or muscle development to be on the right side. Same as Penn. You put Parker at LT after being on the right side for 3 years and he looked like twice the player and looked natural. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 8 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Average is still something. Parker and leatherwood are somehow getting worse. Crap on Parker all you want. You leave Mr. Leatherwood out of it, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Kolt has been getting worked lately also I’ll give him a 1 game pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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