2018 NFL Free Agents Thread

[Knowledge]

4 hours ago, DTMW78 said:

I doubt Lawrence is available after true year he's had.

 

Cowboys are in Salary cap hell. Its possible. Small chance but possible 

[Forge]

35 minutes ago, Knowledge said:

Cowboys are in Salary cap hell. Its possible. Small chance but possible 

Yeah, their situation is not ideal, though they have a few moves they can make (cutting Witten, Hannah saves like 10 million). They're in a better situation if they can get a long term deal with him done rather than the tag

[48 1/2ers]

17 hours ago, Forge said:

Yeah, their situation is not ideal, though they have a few moves they can make (cutting Witten, Hannah saves like 10 million). They're in a better situation if they can get a long term deal with him done rather than the tag

They also just drafted Taco Charlton and have Tyrone Crawford on the books. They can probably find a way to make it work but you never really know with Jerry Jones. 

[tonyto36]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

 

I'm sure I'm going to be missing some conversation/posts, but love arm chair GM'ing + JG + think the Niners have a ton of upside.

How would you guys feel about...

Le'Veon Bell - 4 years, 60 million. 30 guaranteed.  Set up for cap hits of 18-16-14-12.  Hits free agency again at 29

Malcolm Butler - 3 years, 36 million.  22 guaranteed.  Had a down year, but has upside and is a high character player who you can trust won't get paid and dog it.  This gives him some short term money but also leaves it open for another big contract at age 30.  3 years 36 seems on the low side for him, but it's possible.

Zach Miller/Ben Watson - 2 years, 8 million. 3 guaranteed  Both have a ton of NFL experience/smarts and can handle complex playbooks.  Both old guys.  Watson is still more athletic than Miller but Miller is more sure handed.  Both guys could be nice stop gaps.

Taylor Gabriel - 3 years, 12 million.  8 guaranteed  Knows Shanahan's system.  Good role player, slot guy and gimmick player.

Jahri Evans - 2 years, 6 million.  4 guaranteed.  More stop gap than anything.  Would assume to sign him while drafting a replacement and he's gone year 2. 

 

 

Really wanted another WR, but don't think Fitz is going to be available, Alshon got extended, Wallace, Flloyd and Pryor I wouldn't touch unless it was a one year vet min deal.  Landry is tempting but also a headcase.   Watkins will probably get overpaid and is mediocre.   Decker is a possible stop gap but he'll likely go to a team that will overpay him or is a proven contender.  

Offense is instantly upgraded (I'd still want to draft a bigger X/#1 guy - maybe Decker is this temporary stop gap).  You get a credible corner and leave your draft open to focus on defense where you can get a more affordable pass rusher.    For 2018 that would cost you roughly 51 in cap space if you did everything I said.  Leaving 69 left for resigns/JG.  

[y2lamanaki]

9 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

 

I'm sure I'm going to be missing some conversation/posts, but love arm chair GM'ing + JG + think the Niners have a ton of upside.

How would you guys feel about...

Le'Veon Bell - 4 years, 60 million. 30 guaranteed.  Set up for cap hits of 18-16-14-12.  Hits free agency again at 29

Malcolm Butler - 3 years, 36 million.  22 guaranteed.  Had a down year, but has upside and is a high character player who you can trust won't get paid and dog it.  This gives him some short term money but also leaves it open for another big contract at age 30.  3 years 36 seems on the low side for him, but it's possible.

Zach Miller/Ben Watson - 2 years, 8 million. 3 guaranteed  Both have a ton of NFL experience/smarts and can handle complex playbooks.  Both old guys.  Watson is still more athletic than Miller but Miller is more sure handed.  Both guys could be nice stop gaps.

Taylor Gabriel - 3 years, 12 million.  8 guaranteed  Knows Shanahan's system.  Good role player, slot guy and gimmick player.

Jahri Evans - 2 years, 6 million.  4 guaranteed.  More stop gap than anything.  Would assume to sign him while drafting a replacement and he's gone year 2. 

 

 

Really wanted another WR, but don't think Fitz is going to be available, Alshon got extended, Wallace, Flloyd and Pryor I wouldn't touch unless it was a one year vet min deal.  Landry is tempting but also a headcase.   Watkins will probably get overpaid and is mediocre.   Decker is a possible stop gap but he'll likely go to a team that will overpay him or is a proven contender.  

Offense is instantly upgraded (I'd still want to draft a bigger X/#1 guy - maybe Decker is this temporary stop gap).  You get a credible corner and leave your draft open to focus on defense where you can get a more affordable pass rusher.    For 2018 that would cost you roughly 51 in cap space if you did everything I said.  Leaving 69 left for resigns/JG.  

Not commenting on contract lengths and money since there is a large realm of possibilities there. I would be very happy with Bell and/or Butler on the team.

Not interested in bringing in Gabriel for any amount of money. I'm happier with those already here - we need a red zone threat. That's it.

Also not interested in the last three, as I don't see anything worthwhile there. 

Wouldn't complain about any of them since they would be minor deals/roleplayers, but also don't see the purpose.

 

[Forge]

14 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

Not commenting on contract lengths and money since there is a large realm of possibilities there. I would be very happy with Bell and/or Butler on the team.

Not interested in bringing in Gabriel for any amount of money. I'm happier with those already here - we need a red zone threat. That's it.

Also not interested in the last three, as I don't see anything worthwhile there. 

Wouldn't complain about any of them since they would be minor deals/roleplayers, but also don't see the purpose.

 

The only one I would possibly disagree with is Evans, because we haven't drafted Nelson and Fusco is a free agent. He actually had a nice season in GB, and would serve the same purpose as Fusco. If we re-sign Fusco, yeah, I don't think that there would be much of a point because I'd want to draft a guy as well, if we don't re-sign him, then it could make sense as a filler while also still drafting a guy. 

[y2lamanaki]

3 hours ago, Forge said:

The only one I would possibly disagree with is Evans, because we haven't drafted Nelson and Fusco is a free agent. He actually had a nice season in GB, and would serve the same purpose as Fusco. If we re-sign Fusco, yeah, I don't think that there would be much of a point because I'd want to draft a guy as well, if we don't re-sign him, then it could make sense as a filler while also still drafting a guy. 

Yeah, I'll admit - I paused when it came to Evans. He's a guy I've liked for a long time and he even went to a (relatively) local small school so I knew about him for quite a while. But...he's going to be 35 when the season starts, and I would much rather have another option in there. I'd only really want Evans if the line needed a vet presence, but we have that in Staley and possibly Kilgore if/when he returns. So...I'd rather get a guy in the draft or a free agent that had more long-term value. I mean, I'm not going to care about a vet-friendly one or two year deal, but I just don't have that interest. 

[tonyto36]

8 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Not commenting on contract lengths and money since there is a large realm of possibilities there. I would be very happy with Bell and/or Butler on the team.

Not interested in bringing in Gabriel for any amount of money. I'm happier with those already here - we need a red zone threat. That's it.

Also not interested in the last three, as I don't see anything worthwhile there. 

Wouldn't complain about any of them since they would be minor deals/roleplayers, but also don't see the purpose.

 

It's always good to have depth and capable receivers on reasonable deals.   Plus I think he would definitely be an upgrade over Goodwin and Taylor.  

I think the Niners would hugely benefit from having better TE play for Shanahan to work with.  Watson and Miller are both short term upgrades while you draft a long term guy IMO.

I think you're undervaluing role players and depth pieces here.  Most big money contracts for big names don't work out, and having the depth from that middle class of guys like Watson/Miller/Taylor/Evans/etc. is why the Patriots can still compete through injuries most years.  Any good affordable contracts that you can either lock in a star long term or be a good stop gap while you draft guys is what the Niners should be targetting IMO.  

8 hours ago, Forge said:

The only one I would possibly disagree with is Evans, because we haven't drafted Nelson and Fusco is a free agent. He actually had a nice season in GB, and would serve the same purpose as Fusco. If we re-sign Fusco, yeah, I don't think that there would be much of a point because I'd want to draft a guy as well, if we don't re-sign him, then it could make sense as a filler while also still drafting a guy. 

Haven't drafted Nelson?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fusco a good run blocker but sub par pass protector?  Evans seems like he'd be a better fit with JG - athletic guard who can move in space and pass protect.  Either way, a minor move.  

 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, tonyto36 said:

 

Haven't drafted Nelson?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fusco a good run blocker but sub par pass protector?  Evans seems like he'd be a better fit with JG - athletic guard who can move in space and pass protect.  Either way, a minor move.  

 

Nelson is by far my biggest draft crush this year, and I think that there is somewhat of a realistic chance that we do draft him.  He's the guy I want the most out of those likely to be selected in the area of where we are drafting. Given that we need 2 guards (someone to start opposite Garnett, someone to fill in)

Fusco was very up and down this year - had some very good games, some bad ones. I would like to re-sign him on the cheap just to have a very capable back up to whoever starts opposite Garnett, whom I'm hoping is going to be Nelson.

The thing is, our short yardage offense is absolutely abysmal. We had one of the worst stuff rates in the NFL, and our running game suffered a lot this year. For some people, because Jimmy G is so quick with getting the ball out, the guard play should be more about improving the run game and short yardage situations than it should be about pass protection. As long as the guards are "meh" in pass protection, some people feel that we could live with that if they are really good in the run game. 

[tonyto36]

20 minutes ago, Forge said:

Nelson is by far my biggest draft crush this year, and I think that there is somewhat of a realistic chance that we do draft him.  He's the guy I want the most out of those likely to be selected in the area of where we are drafting. Given that we need 2 guards (someone to start opposite Garnett, someone to fill in)

Fusco was very up and down this year - had some very good games, some bad ones. I would like to re-sign him on the cheap just to have a very capable back up to whoever starts opposite Garnett, whom I'm hoping is going to be Nelson.

The thing is, our short yardage offense is absolutely abysmal. We had one of the worst stuff rates in the NFL, and our running game suffered a lot this year. For some people, because Jimmy G is so quick with getting the ball out, the guard play should be more about improving the run game and short yardage situations than it should be about pass protection. As long as the guards are "meh" in pass protection, some people feel that we could live with that if they are really good in the run game. 

I don't know.  It comes down to philosophical approach.  With that Patriots as long as we keep Brady upright and give him reasonable amount of receiving help, he's going to be the focus of the defense and the running game with even mediocre talent (see: Blount/Green-Ellis/Ridley) will be good enough.  I think JG is capable of that top 3 type of QB play where the defense lines up to stop him while the running game flourishes as a net result.   It's probably safer to go for the running game as a fall back (like Falcons with Ryan), but I'm all in on Garoppolo being a mega stud and think he's one of the few QBs in NFL history that you can go into a game expecting to pass 50 times and win.  

[y2lamanaki]

7 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

It's always good to have depth and capable receivers on reasonable deals.   Plus I think he would definitely be an upgrade over Goodwin and Taylor.  

I agree - it's always good to have depth and capable receivers. We have Garcon, Goodwin, and Taylor. Those are depth and capable receivers. Gabriel gives us nothing those guys don't already give us. And Gabriel is not even remotely an upgrade over any of them. Goodwin's year this year was far and away better than any season Gabriel has ever put together, and Goodwin's previous years are absolutely on par with what Gabriel did. Hell, even Trent Taylor out-produced Gabriel this past year. I recognize you obviously have a love for this player, but I have no use for a below-average, 27-year old slot receiver that is not in any way, shape, or form better than what we have. We need a big receiver who could double as a redzone threat or a clear-cut #1 receiver in the mold of a Julio Jones. 5'8" Taylor Gabriel is neither.

8 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

I think the Niners would hugely benefit from having better TE play for Shanahan to work with.  Watson and Miller are both short term upgrades while you draft a long term guy IMO.

I agree the Niners would benefit from having better TE play. I disagree that Watson or Miller would be able to provide that. Watson is a 96-year old TE who had exactly 5 yards and 2 TDs more than Kittle this year, despite being a far larger piece of the Ravens offense than Kittle was to us. I'm perfectly happy with him.  And Kittle's year this year is once again better than any year Miller has ever had in his career. Plus, why would I want a 33-year old TE who will turn 34 next season and can't stay healthy?

I'm sorry to tell you, but these are just Madden GM moves. 

8 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

I think you're undervaluing role players and depth pieces here.

No, I'm perfectly valuing the role players and depth pieces that already exist and of which we absolutely need no more. We need playmakers now. Gabriel, Watson, and Miller are not that, and are just older versions of better pieces we already have in place. 

[rudyZ]

We'll most assuredly make depth signings, but I feel it will be at LB, DB and OL. 

[tonyto36]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I agree - it's always good to have depth and capable receivers. We have Garcon, Goodwin, and Taylor. Those are depth and capable receivers. Gabriel gives us nothing those guys don't already give us. And Gabriel is not even remotely an upgrade over any of them. Goodwin's year this year was far and away better than any season Gabriel has ever put together, and Goodwin's previous years are absolutely on par with what Gabriel did. Hell, even Trent Taylor out-produced Gabriel this past year. I recognize you obviously have a love for this player, but I have no use for a below-average, 27-year old slot receiver that is not in any way, shape, or form better than what we have. We need a big receiver who could double as a redzone threat or a clear-cut #1 receiver in the mold of a Julio Jones. 5'8" Taylor Gabriel is neither.

I agree the Niners would benefit from having better TE play. I disagree that Watson or Miller would be able to provide that. Watson is a 96-year old TE who had exactly 5 yards and 2 TDs more than Kittle this year, despite being a far larger piece of the Ravens offense than Kittle was to us. I'm perfectly happy with him.  And Kittle's year this year is once again better than any year Miller has ever had in his career. Plus, why would I want a 33-year old TE who will turn 34 next season and can't stay healthy?

I'm sorry to tell you, but these are just Madden GM moves. 

No, I'm perfectly valuing the role players and depth pieces that already exist and of which we absolutely need no more. We need playmakers now. Gabriel, Watson, and Miller are not that, and are just older versions of better pieces we already have in place. 

1.  I really think you're massively overrating Goodwin and Taylor here.  I don't think either offers the upside Gabriel does.   Even if I concede the point, when you have an elite QB, it's never a bad thing to have too many capable role players.  Rodgers/Brady are capable of taking a handful of solid role players and getting a great offense out of it.  Rodgers/Brady are not capable of taking complete garbage and making a good offense out of it.  Gabriel is a low risk, high upside signing at a position/size that Goodwin/Taylor are likely to get hurt and miss time at.  Plus with his familiarity in the system it seems like a natural fit.

I'm not saying anything that the Niners don't need that.  I specifically cited would want another (big) receiver, but there's none that are worth it in free agency and typically big overpriced #1s aren't worth it anyways.   And lastly, production =/= talent.   Gabriel was the fifth, sometimes sixth option in the offense.  Goodwin got pumped twice as many targets.  (and a worse catch rate).  And even then, again, stats =/= ability or talent.  2013 Peyton had gaudy stats but it wasn't remotely close to his prime playing ability.

2.   They're stop gaps, meant to bridge until you get 'the guy'.   Admittedly, I did forget about Kittle, but again, the more depth the better - it's not like these guys would be breaking the bank or long term commitments.  With an elite QB you want as many options as possible to take advantage of.  Teams like the Jags with scrub QBs just lineup and run the same vanilla playbook every game because that's all the QB can handle.  Having the ability to trot out 5 WR or 3 TE and run good plays is a huge part of how the Patriots have had dominant offenses with largely average talent.  It's a ton for the defense to account for.

3.  With all due respect YOU are the one suggest Madden GM moves.  It's not all about signing fifteen 30 year old probowlers or Julio Jones.   Looking at the available pieces, I chose what looked to me like reasonable value pieces.   Who else do you want?  Just sign two DEs at 100 million each?  Sign Jarvis Landry and Sammy Watkins for a combined 100 million?  What exactly do you think the Niners should do?  Because my moves IMO look like the complete opposite of what "Madden moves" would be.

4.  The age is a relevant point, but to have a sustainable product, you need to draft your team, not commit long term big money to aging vets.   A rebuild isn't an over night process you can do.  Lots of teams have completely ruined their future with moves like that.  The Colts are the biggest recent example - stud, young QB who the team made a ton of horrible decisions making "Madden GM moves" signing "playmakers".   Now Andrew Luck lives in a hospital and the Colts are competing with the Browns as the least talented team in the NFL.

I subscribe to the Patriots method.  If you'd like to follow the Colts down the rabbit hole of Frank Gore, Andre Johnson, D'qwell Jackson and Arthur Jones, you know, real playmakers, be my guest.

[Chrissooner49er]

I too think Goodwin & Taylor are more than adequate. If we add any WRs, it should be with size for red zone threat. Not at all sure Bourne and the McCaffrey kid qualify, but would like to see what they bring. 

[tonyto36]

56 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

We'll most assuredly make depth signings, but I feel it will be at LB, DB and OL. 

Casillas and Barwin might be good signings at LB?

DB is always scary in free agency because everyone always gets paid more than you'd expect.

Your tackles are set right?  Interior looks like another spot just sign a stop gap while trying to draft a guy you want.  Not much there in FA this year.