Possible Front Office Alternatives

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

25 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

Haslam is the essence of impatience and while their bosses are really responsible for their team's successes, you usually can take a chance on somebody they hired to help them, if you believe they are solid GM's. Solid GM's hire solid assistants and solid scouts to help them, that's why they are successful. Of course, nothing carries a 100% guarantee in life, some are bound to be very successful while others fall by the wayside as flops, just like some OC's and DC's turn out to be great HC's while others go on to be flops. You are just playing the odds by hiring a helper of a great GM, of course, it also helps if your owner is a very solid judge of FO talent.

This is the most absurd case of someone stating the obvious I've ever seen.

You're the one who insisted on a successful, proven guy. I just pointed out those guys already had jobs.

[Iamcanadian]

My problem with 5 year plans is simple, I have been following pro football for around 65 years and I have never seen a solid organization take more than 3 years to completely turn a franchise into a competitive team and I have never seen a successful franchise go through a 1-31 record and expect that GM to suddenly see the light.

I have 2 signs which tell me with certainty, that this FO is simply bad.

1) they passed on potentially two franchise QB's, solid GM's do not make those mistakes.

2) Solid GM's can be actually seen in how their teams progress over 3 years. Year 1, if at all possible, they draft a potential franchise QB and the newly hired HC dumps the deadwood from his team and it is not unusual to see something like a 3-13 season. Year 2, the HC proves to be a solid hire and takes the team to somewhere close to a .500 season and in year 3, the team becomes a serious contender.

These are the reasons why this FO will never approach being competent, they have already passed on 2 franchise QB's and if they get to run the 2018 draft, they will be drafting from a point of panic having set themselves up for failure. They will have different people telling them that so and so should be the QB they pick and they will have to decide which one to choose after already having failed miserly to draft either Wentz or Watson and you expect them to make a clear and great selection.

These guys have shown me nothing that resembles a successful rebuilds from past experience and you want to trust them to make a solid chose for our franchise QB. It would be utterly ridiculous to allow this mess that they have put together, to continue to run this franchise and quite possibly, totally waste all the draft assets they have assembled, and set back this franchise for another decade or longer. We simply have to find more competent people to make those choices and just pray Haslam picks the right, new FO.

[Iamcanadian]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This is the most absurd case of someone stating the obvious I've ever seen.

You're the one who insisted on a successful, proven guy. I just pointed out those guys already had jobs.

And I just pointed out that their assistants who helped them assemble their draft boards, have the potential to be successful as well. There are always new talented people coming up in successful organizations who will become great GM's.

Your insistence that our FO is competent after providing us with a possible 1-31 record, is rather ridiculous in my opinion. Show me one successful franchise whose GM has come close to a 1-31 record over a 2 year period, it does not exist, yet you persist in believing that our FO is competent, based on absolutely nothing as far as I can see. All I see you saying is excuses for their failures, a lot if only's but nothing concrete to suggest otherwise. Their record speaks volumes for me, but you pass over it like it is just them going through a learning experience and they are bound to improve. NO, there is absolutely no guarantee they will improve one iota.

Oh well, we will just have to continue to disagree and leave it at that, but I serious doubt they get another year to show anything. They are going to be fired along with Hue. End of story IMO, unless they suddenly go on a 4 or 5 game winning streak and I am not holding my breath on that possibility.

[dawgattack]

28 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

My problem with 5 year plans is simple, I have been following pro football for around 65 years and I have never seen a solid organization take more than 3 years to completely turn a franchise into a competitive team and I have never seen a successful franchise go through a 1-31 record and expect that GM to suddenly see the light.

I have 2 signs which tell me with certainty, that this FO is simply bad.

1) they passed on potentially two franchise QB's, solid GM's do not make those mistakes.

2) Solid GM's can be actually seen in how their teams progress over 3 years. Year 1, if at all possible, they draft a potential franchise QB and the newly hired HC dumps the deadwood from his team and it is not unusual to see something like a 3-13 season. Year 2, the HC proves to be a solid hire and takes the team to somewhere close to a .500 season and in year 3, the team becomes a serious contender.

These are the reasons why this FO will never approach being competent, they have already passed on 2 franchise QB's and if they get to run the 2018 draft, they will be drafting from a point of panic having set themselves up for failure. They will have different people telling them that so and so should be the QB they pick and they will have to decide which one to choose after already having failed miserly to draft either Wentz or Watson and you expect them to make a clear and great selection.

These guys have shown me nothing that resembles a successful rebuilds from past experience and you want to trust them to make a solid chose for our franchise QB. It would be utterly ridiculous to allow this mess that they have put together, to continue to run this franchise and quite possibly, totally waste all the draft assets they have assembled, and set back this franchise for another decade or longer. We simply have to find more competent people to make those choices and just pray Haslam picks the right, new FO.

You do realize that several QB needy teams passed on D.Watson?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

And I just pointed out that their assistants who helped them assemble their draft boards, have the potential to be successful as well. There are always new talented people coming up in successful organizations who will become great GM's.

Your insistence that our FO is competent after providing us with a possible 1-31 record, is rather ridiculous in my opinion. Show me one successful franchise whose GM has come close to a 1-31 record over a 2 year period, it does not exist, yet you persist in believing that our FO is competent, based on absolutely nothing as far as I can see. All I see you saying is excuses for their failures, a lot if only's but nothing concrete to suggest otherwise. Their record speaks volumes for me, but you pass over it like it is just them going through a learning experience and they are bound to improve. NO, there is absolutely no guarantee they will improve one iota.

Oh well, we will just have to continue to disagree and leave it at that, but I serious doubt they get another year to show anything. They are going to be fired along with Hue. End of story IMO, unless they suddenly go on a 4 or 5 game winning streak and I am not holding my breath on that possibility.

I never said they were or weren't competent, simply we haven't had enough time to evaluate that.

Using record to show incompetence when at no point was the focus ever on winning last year or this year is about the height of stupidity IMO.

[hornbybrown]

Who else wouldn’t mind having Joe Banner back?

 

i posted this as a topic couple days ago while drinking Tequila. But Webby told me to sober up and deleted the topic. So he doesn’t like the  idea but I think he is a steeler fan so that must mean it was a good idea

[Kiwibrown]

10 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

Who else wouldn’t mind having Joe Banner back?

 

i posted this as a topic couple days ago while drinking Tequila. But Webby told me to sober up and deleted the topic. So he doesn’t like the  idea but I think he is a steeler fan so that must mean it was a good idea

Joe Banner was so smug at everything he did. He also dug his own grave in hring Michael Lombardi who was hated by the Cleveland Browns public. I don't think he understood marketing, which is a part of the GM's job, especially with a winning team. Alsoi do no think he was good at bulding bridges with coaches. I think this is one of Sachi's faults as well. You have to make an unorthodox plan work with th coaching staff 

If bill belichick acted like he did one a team that went 2-14 for three seasons he would be gone, he had earned the right to be a ******.  

in saying that i liked Joe Banner I think he would of got us at least to average and if he got lucky getting a franchise QB we would be good.

[DawgX]

Yeah, Heckert wasn't bad. Arguably our best GM since our return, not that that's saying much of anything. Drafting Weeden certainly was a horrible choice, though.

I'd still like to keep Sashi and the rest of the staff, but who knows if Haslam has learned his lesson. I like the majority of the decisions they've made, with the exception of a couple. I didn't like them not resigning Schwartz, although Coleman seems decent so far. If Sashi and company are fired, then whoever the new GM is will have lots to work in terms of cap space and draft picks thanks to Sashi.

[hornbybrown]

8 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Yeah, Heckert wasn't bad. Arguably our best GM since our return, not that that's saying much of anything. Drafting Weeden certainly was a horrible choice, though.

I'd still like to keep Sashi and the rest of the staff, but who knows if Haslam has learned his lesson. I like the majority of the decisions they've made, with the exception of a couple. I didn't like them not resigning Schwartz, although Coleman seems decent so far. If Sashi and company are fired, then whoever the new GM is will have lots to work in terms of cap space and draft picks thanks to Sashi.

I’m fine with keeping them but I do like the idea of them answering to a football guy.

 

If I have it right the coaches answer to Haslim as do Sashi and his guys. I want a football guy who they report to who then reports to Haslim 

[ditchdigger]

1 hour ago, hornbybrown said:

Who else wouldn’t mind having Joe Banner back?

 

i posted this as a topic couple days ago while drinking Tequila. But Webby told me to sober up and deleted the topic. So he doesn’t like the  idea but I think he is a steeler fan so that must mean it was a good idea

You mean the man who said "Hogan is going to show everyone why he should have been starting"?

Hard pass.

[hornbybrown]

8 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

You mean the man who said "Hogan is going to show everyone why he should have been starting"?

Hard pass.

I didn’t know he said that!

[Kiwibrown]

I wonder if analytics weakness is scouting QB's because of the complexity of the position. 

The factors that influence a college QB's success are a lot different to the NFL. thus there isn't a clear analytical approach to selecting players. Also athletecism is only a small portion of the position requirement so more effective measuring of an athletes physical ability doesn't matter. 

there isn't a clear analytic methodology to selecting QB's. one method predicted Brady Quinn would be a success. 

[ditchdigger]

On 11/1/2017 at 7:29 PM, dawgattack said:

You do realize that several QB needy teams passed on D.Watson?

Bears and Chiefs traded up for QBs other than Watson. 49ers and Jets passed on him for defensive players. Jags must be sold on Bortles. Chargers and Saints have old dudes that won't be around much longer. Bengals stayed the course of mediocrity with Dalton.

Only team that shouldn't be getting beat up for passing on him is Tennessee. The Browns were the only team that got a future 1st round pick for doing so, but they get the most hate because it's easy.

[ditchdigger]

8 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

I didn’t know he said that!

His twitter feed is full of gems.

[Dogbite]

Tom Heckart is by far the best GM since the return. He has picked more players who have actually lasted 5+ years in the NFL than probably all the other GMs combined.