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Christian McCaffrey: Is the upside even there to turn it around


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17 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Off the top of my head, QB's drafted outside the 1st round from the past 10 years or so that have seen success in this league:

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Tyrod Taylor, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia have all found success and were drafted outside the first round. Again your point is flawed. If you're talented enough regardless of position, it certainly can be worth a top 10 pick, so my point still stands if you have a guy like Charles, McCoy, Sanders, MJD, etc. You certainly take them top 10. 

The barometer is to "have seen success" in this league? That's pretty low expectations for top 10 picks. I can name a lot of players that "have seen success", hell Josh Freeman seen success too. That doesn't mean a goddamn thing. Bulger, Tyrod, and Garcia were all middle of the pack QB's. Brady, Romo, and Warner cases are rarity's. Cousins, Dak, and Carr still have to prove themselves. A couple good seasons and I'm not ready to crown them as a sure thing yet. Your point is flawed bud try again.

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14 minutes ago, indifference said:

The barometer is to "have seen success" in this league? That's pretty low expectations for top 10 picks. I can name a lot of players that "have seen success", hell Josh Freeman seen success too. That doesn't mean a goddamn thing. Bulger, Tyrod, and Garcia were all middle of the pack QB's. Brady, Romo, and Warner cases are rarity's. Cousins, Dak, and Carr still have to prove themselves. A couple good seasons and I'm not ready to crown them as a sure thing yet. Your point is flawed bud try again.

LOL in just about any redraft you would see Dak, Carr, and Cousins as top 10 picks for their respective years. Bulger went to 2 pro bowls, Jeff Garcia went to 4 Pro Bowls, and Tyrod Taylor has also been to a Pro Bowl. I'm not saying they were HOF caliber players, but they were able to find success for several seasons. Like I said that was just some names off the top of my head there are more. Your responses bore me, do better..

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7 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

LOL in just about any redraft you would see Dak, Carr, and Cousins as top 10 picks for their respective years. Bulger went to 2 pro bowls, Jeff Garcia went to 4 Pro Bowls, and Tyrod Taylor has also been to a Pro Bowl. I'm not saying they were HOF caliber players, but they were able to find success for several seasons. Like I said that was just some names off the top of my head there are more. Your responses bore me, do better..

And "finding success for several seasons" is a low barometer so your point is moot. We're talking about top 10 picks here not success for a couple seasons. Cousins is nowhere near a top 10 pick btw. Dak is borderline too as a top 10 pick in a redraft. Nothing special about his game except his mobility coupled with generally good at making safe throws.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, indifference said:

And "finding success for several seasons" is a low barometer so your point is moot. We're talking about top 10 picks here not success for a couple seasons. Cousins is nowhere near a top 10 pick btw. Dak is borderline too as a top 10 pick in a redraft. Nothing special about his game except his mobility coupled with generally good at making safe throws.

 

 

And the point continues to go over your head as you grasp more and more. 

The point being you wouldn't draft a RB top 10 because you can find them later in the draft. I cited several QB's that went late that would be top 10 in a redraft. Obviously the point was this type of logic can be applied to literally every position outside of special teams. 

WR- Antonio Brown, Michael Thomas, TY Hilton, Brandon Marshall, etc.

CB- Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, Chris Harris, etc.

Again literally every position you can apply the "I can find ___ position later in the draft" logic", so the point is if a player regardless of position, is talented enough, than yes they should go top 10.

 

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7 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

And the point continues to go over your head as you grasp more and more. 

The point being you wouldn't draft a RB top 10 because you can find them later in the draft. I cited several QB's that went late that would be top 10 in a redraft. Obviously the point was this type of logic can be applied to literally every position outside of special teams. 

WR- Antonio Brown, Michael Thomas, TY Hilton, Brandon Marshall, etc.

CB- Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, Chris Harris, etc.

Again literally every position you can apply the "I can find ___ position later in the draft" logic", so the point is if a player regardless of position, is talented enough, than yes they should go top 10.

 

That is common knowledge. The most important positions in the league are worth top 10 picks. RB's simply aren't because you can find way more examples of good ones late than ANY other position. There's a reason why people call RB's a dime dozen. But I digress........

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Upside is obviously there, as a receiver. Julian Edelman 2.0. Currently he’s best served in a Danny Woodhead-role.

But behind a better line, with better play-calling, I could see him being a true three-down back. He proved that at Stanford. He’s just one of those running backs that needs a great line to produce. 

He’d be productive, rushing and receiving, on the Eagles.

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1 hour ago, indifference said:

That is common knowledge. The most important positions in the league are worth top 10 picks. RB's simply aren't because you can find way more examples of good ones late than ANY other position. There's a reason why people call RB's a dime dozen. But I digress........

You probably could find more examples at RB, but that still doesn't mean all that much. The goal of the draft is to get guys that can make a huge difference for you in the future. If there is an elite RB prospect sitting there and you are picking top 10 in need of a RB. You simply take that RB. It would be absurd not to. I'm sure the Cowboys feel just fine about getting Elliott top 10 and Dak late in the draft last year..

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I would like to see the Panthers get an OC who knows what they are doing before I judge. As is, Matt Kalil routinely misses blocks that allows CMC and Stew to get hit 2 yards behind the LOS. Unfortunately we just traded our best wide receiver and teams will likely not stop stacking the box because really, what team is going to respect Curtis Samuel or Russell Shepard... with no Greg Olsen around. Offense is doomed. We gotta hire someone who will get creative with the various skillsets offered by our personnel and adapt to the crap OLine rather than continuing to have terrible WRs just run 15 yards down the field while Cam is getting mutilated by pass rushers. And now we have to find a new #1 wideout unless something miraculous happens in these final eight games. I feel bad for Cam.

Unfortunately Rivera stuck his neck out for Shula and our defense is so good that we might make the playoffs, which means Rivera won't get fired. Then Hurney is promoted to full-time GM. And we probably accomplish nothing of note for several years while we hand out mega contracts to mediocre players and cripple the bottom of our roster like back before we fired Hurney. Then once Jerry Richardson dies we have to pray we are sold to a progressive owner who actually wants to win.

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30 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

You probably could find more examples at RB, but that still doesn't mean all that much. The goal of the draft is to get guys that can make a huge difference for you in the future. If there is an elite RB prospect sitting there and you are picking top 10 in need of a RB. You simply take that RB. It would be absurd not to. I'm sure the Cowboys feel just fine about getting Elliott top 10 and Dak late in the draft last year..

Its a passing league. Can you stop the pass and are you able to when its time to convert money downs. IMO the Cowboys could have taken a RB in round 2 and got similar success because their offensive line is that dominant. Zeke is great too at the second level but most of the successful franchises in the league very rarely invest highly into that position. I personally thought Ramsey > Zeke would've been the better pick btw.  Your goal of the draft and mine are completely different. If your picking in the top 10 anyway.....

QB play is dreadful

OL play is bad

No pass rush

 

You just won't find most teams that are picking in the top 10 because they didn't have a good RB. That team clearly has bigger issues than just a back. And we all know once you take a running game away, its all up to the guy under C to win the team games or not.

 

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44 minutes ago, indifference said:

Its a passing league. Can you stop the pass and are you able to when its time to convert money downs. IMO the Cowboys could have taken a RB in round 2 and got similar success because their offensive line is that dominant. Zeke is great too at the second level but most of the successful franchises in the league very rarely invest highly into that position. I personally thought Ramsey > Zeke would've been the better pick btw.  Your goal of the draft and mine are completely different. If your picking in the top 10 anyway.....

QB play is dreadful

OL play is bad

No pass rush

 

You just won't find most teams that are picking in the top 10 because they didn't have a good RB. That team clearly has bigger issues than just a back. And we all know once you take a running game away, its all up to the guy under C to win the team games or not.

 

Oh yeah? Is that why Alfred Morris at just 27 years old averaged 3.5 ypc last year and Elliott averaged 5.1 ypc. Thanks for clearing that up for me..

Another flawed analogy regarding picking in the top 10. You seem to pigeonhole the reasons to either 3 things QB play, OL play, or no pass rush. That is an inaccurate oversimplified statement. If you are picking in the top 10 it is likely a combo of several things not just 1 of three things you mentioned. Sure QB is the most influential position on the field, but outside of that there is a lot up for debate. Typically you see well rounded RB's picked top 10 as they can influence a game in a variety of ways such as Elliott who was a great runner, receiver, and pass blocker.   

As far as it being a passing league..Sure it is, but it also seems that the power run game is seeing a little bit of a resurgence as of late, so again, if there's an elite RB on the board and your team is in need of a RB...Then it certainly seems like a solid pick. As I just mentioned most top RB's are pretty versatile and influence in the pass game as well. 

Oddly enough I see you mention Ramsey as an example for last year (which I don't agree with, I think the Cowboys are very content with their pick), but I'm sure you won't see very many Jaguars fans complaining about taking Fournette this year..

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5 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

The overwhelming number of top draft choices don't get injured in bowl games. It's unfortunate about Jaylon Smith and other rare cases, but that's football. Healthy players simply can't decide when they want to play, McCaffrey's future earnings have nothing to do with the commitment he made to Stanford and his teammates. It's not like David Shaw would have run him into the ground in that Sun Bowl, McCaffrey's touches could have been managed to help the team. Horrible example, and disappointing to see the son of a good NFL player take the easy way out. Quitting on your teammates is a non-starter for me.   

I understand McCaffrey's thinking, but I tend to agree with this.  Maybe it's my problem, but I can't get past looking at it as McCaffrey quitting on his team.  He had solid reasoning, but he quit on his team nonetheless.

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