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Christian McCaffrey: Is the upside even there to turn it around

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2 minutes ago, Zithers2 said:

Here's McCaffrey showing off some upper body strength on a DE

https://twitter.com/VeteranScout/status/925714508584062976/video/1

As far as in between the tackle stuff goes, most of what he did against the Falcons yesterday was power running behind rookie FB Alex Armah. His long of 17 was right up the middle.

Like I mentioned earlier, he has incredible pass blocking skills as a rookie as this twitter account points out and he exhibits football strength (and smarts). 

Though I will say that power/gap/man run schemes don't mean it's tailored for strong RBs, just like a ZBS isn't relegated strictly to shifty RBs. Power runs are simply the description and design of the blocking schemes. 

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1 hour ago, CP3MVP said:

He was overdrafted. 

Where a player is drafted is irrelevant. What matters in the early rounds is that you land a starter or potential starter. Given that McCaffrey is not only a viable starter, but also valuable asset to the Panther's offense, is the only consequential factor. 

Edited by Carmen Cygni

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I think he went to the wrong team . I dont think panthers know how to use him or will be able to use him right with Cam . 

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He was never worth the pick Carolina spent on him.   Didnt even view him as a top 50 pick personally.    Looks like a slightly more athletic Danny Woodhead, and while thats not a bad weapon to have, its not an every down weapon.

He is a situational player....kinda like Tavon Austin.      If used right can be a nice contributor, but will likely never be the feature star player Carolina hoped he would be drafting him so high.  

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1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

He was never worth the pick Carolina spent on him.   Didnt even view him as a top 50 pick personally.    Looks like a slightly more athletic Danny Woodhead, and while thats not a bad weapon to have, its not an every down weapon.

Considering Woodhead has a faster reported 40 time, 20 yard split, bench press, and vertical jump with a slightly slower 3 cone shuttle, what exactly are you basing this off of?  Woodhead was/is a great athlete.

McCaffrey isn't perfect, but labeling him as a situational player seems short-sighted at best.  It feels like 3/4ths of the people in this thread haven't actually watched him play more than 5 snaps.

McCaffrey has his weaknesses.  His burst isn't top-notch (although still good) like most elite RBs possess nor does he possess the upper-body build to consistently shed tackles.  That combination will probably prevent him from being a great pure runner.  However, when given the chance, he consistently displays great vision and cutting ability.  :55 is a great example of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JziA-GF-Ae4

CMC's opportunities to succeed as a runner have been limited by A) poor interior blocking, B) scheme, and C) situations.  Outside of this past week, which (not) coincidentally happened to be his best game on the ground thus far, we often only gave him carries out of shotgun and he was never given much room to run.  And we never gave him enough carries to give him a chance to develop a rhythm.  Maybe an elite runner could overcome that, but CMC isn't that.  That doesn't make him a bust.  When he has time to utilize his vision and agility, he's a difficult player to stop.  He has some of the quickest feet among any back in the NFL.  As a receiver, he's amazing.  Legitimately one of the best route runners in the NFL already.  Knows how to find the hole in zone and consistently gets himself open.  He's nearly impossible to cover as a LB and even when Benjamin was here, CMC was the guy we looked for the most on 3rd down.

If you undervalue RBs, then maybe he wasn't worth the top ten pick we used on him.  But I disagree with the notion that he is just a situational player.  He is a 3-down player who hasn't been given much help on the ground.  He isn't without flaws, but he is a solid runner and a fantastic receiver who has given us the underneath option we have desperately needed.

Edited by iknowcool

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23 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Considering Woodhead has a faster reported 40 time, 20 yard split, bench press, and vertical jump with a slightly slower 3 cone shuttle, what exactly are you basing this off of?  Woodhead was/is a great athlete.

I never said Woodhead was a bad athlete.   Just said that I felt McCaffery is better.   McCaffery looked faster on the field and he had better change of direction.  

But, for the sake of the argument.....lets just say they are near equal (even if you want to call Woodhead a better athlete)....it doesnt really affect my overall point.

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McCaffrey isn't perfect, but labeling him as a situational player seems short-sighted at best.  It feels like 3/4ths of the people in this thread haven't actually watched him play more than 5 snaps.

Oh yes...when you disagree with someone, immediately attempt to discredit them by saying they havent watched said player play.   Classic stuff.   

Maybe the label is somewhat shortsighted....then again,  this assessment isnt based on his time with the Panthers.   Its based on him coming out of college....and I made that perfectly clear.

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McCaffrey has his weaknesses.  His burst isn't top-notch (although still good) like most elite RBs possess nor does he possess the upper-body build to consistently shed tackles.  That combination will probably prevent him from being a great pure runner.  However, when given the chance, he consistently displays great vision and cutting ability.  :55 is a great example of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JziA-GF-Ae4

CMC's opportunities to succeed as a runner have been limited by A) poor interior blocking, B) scheme, and C) situations.  Outside of this past week, which (not) coincidentally happened to be his best game on the ground thus far, we often only gave him carries out of shotgun and he was never given much room to run.  And we never gave him enough carries to give him a chance to develop a rhythm.  Maybe an elite runner could overcome that, but CMC isn't that.  That doesn't make him a bust.  When he has time to utilize his vision and agility, he's a difficult player to stop.  He has some of the quickest feet among any back in the NFL.  As a receiver, he's amazing.  Legitimately one of the best route runners in the NFL already.  Knows how to find the hole in zone and consistently gets himself open.  He's nearly impossible to cover as a LB and even when Benjamin was here, CMC was the guy we looked for the most on 3rd down.

 

Okay....I dont even necessarily disagree with anything you said there, but that really doesnt change much.   I still dont view him as anything more than a quality tandem back,  a great 3rd down back and other roles such as splitting him out wide.   

And I never called him a bust.  Not once.   I just said I never felt he was worth such a high pick and that I dont think he will ever live up to the pick you spent on him.   Could I be wrong?  Sure.   Havent seen anything to change my mind yet, though.

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If you undervalue RBs, then maybe he wasn't worth the top ten pick we used on him. 

It depends what you mean by "undervalue".

If there is a truly special talent (like Adrian Peterson, Todd Gurley or Saquon Barkley), then sure....I can understand spending a top 10 pick on a RB.    I never viewed  McCaffery as even being remotely in the same realm as guys like that though.   I thought there were better RBs that would go a round or two later....and there were IMO.

So....its not about me undervaluing RBs.   Its about others overvaluing Christian McCaffery.    And again...I am not calling him a bust.....I just never thought he was anything close to a special talent at RB.   I viewed him a situational player.   I still do....until proven otherwise.   Ill happily eat my crow if he does.

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But I disagree with the notion that he is just a situational player. 

And you have every right to disagree.

I still feel that, though.

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He is a 3-down player who hasn't been given much help on the ground.  He isn't without flaws, but he is a solid runner and a fantastic receiver who has given us the underneath option we have desperately needed.

Fair enough.   I still think he is largely a situation player (3rd down back, obvious passing downs, etc...).    Too early to pass any final judgments, but again, this isnt based on his time with the Panthers since Ive been saying it since this time last year.   

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4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Oh yes...when you disagree with someone, immediately attempt to discredit them by saying they havent watched said player play.   Classic stuff.  

I'm skeptical that a lot of people calling him a bust 9 games into his career have really seen him perform this year.  Someone in this thread even said he wasn't better than Stewart.  That is just laughable.  The gap between McCaffrey and Stewart is enormous.  Stewart isn't any good anymore.

I'm not saying you were calling him a bust.  It was directed to everyone else in the thread calling him that.  

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Maybe the label is somewhat shortsighted....then again,  this assessment isnt based on his time with the Panthers.   Its based on him coming out of college....and I made that perfectly clear.

You didn't make that clear at all.  You just said you didn't view him as a top 50 pick.  I assume people start evaluating players based on how they have looked in their NFL career, not from what they did in college.  McCaffrey has been an effective runner for us when given the chance.  

Just curious.  Based off his college film, why do you think he is only a situational player?  The elite vision, quick feet, and ability to run in between the tackles was there in college.  

Edited by iknowcool

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McCaffrey had a pretty specific skillset coming out of college and I think that a lot of teams thought that his skillset would easily translate into different ground game styles.

 

He can't ground and pound, he's a vision player that makes a lot of his yardage off of picking the right holes and being elusive.  Those things aren't gone but, the run plays they have him doing and the way the Panther's Oline is playing isn't really playing to his strengths.  

 

He's talented but, I think a lot of teams had expectations that were way too high regarding McCaff's skillset translating easily into other types of NFL ground styles.  

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1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

I'm skeptical that a lot of people calling him a bust 9 games into his career have really seen him perform this year.  Someone in this thread even said he wasn't better than Stewart.  That is just laughable.  The gap between McCaffrey and Stewart is enormous.  Stewart isn't any good anymore.

I'm not saying you were calling him a bust.  It was directed to everyone else in the thread calling him that.  

You didn't make that clear at all.  You just said you didn't view him as a top 50 pick.  I assume people start evaluating players based on how they have looked in their NFL career, not from what they did in college.  McCaffrey has been an effective runner for us when given the chance.  

Just curious.  Based off his college film, why do you think he is only a situational player?  The elite vision, quick feet, and ability to run in between the tackles was there in college.  

I agree as well and question how he can be a situational player when he is splitting carries in the backfield, and often lining up at WR in both the slot and outside. He's the Panthers leading offensive skill player in yards this season. I always am amused by the comparisons as well "He's Danny Woodhead", "Move him to WR and he's Wes Welker/Edelman", etc. 

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With all this skill set talk! Seems like Mcaffs skills are best used if his daughter is kidnapped to be found. 

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Can we get a game where he totes it 20 times...Sheesh.. Mike Shula has once again outdone himself. He tries to be the cutest OC out there. Give your top pick the ball, let him run.

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7 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Can we get a game where he totes it 20 times...Sheesh.. Mike Shula has once again outdone himself. He tries to be the cutest OC out there. Give your top pick the ball, let him run.

He can't run.

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