2022 Offseason Thread

[Phinsesq]

4 minutes ago, Emerica said:

Agreed and I have little to no faith in this team’s ability to develop OLineman. Its one thing to get talented guys in the building, it’s another to grow them into NFL players. 

I want us to get some guys that have had proven success in the league, we have the cap and draft capital to do it. Enough with the patch work on the OL.

Ideal scenario would be to acquire starting LT via trade or FA, draft Linderbaum/Green/Ekwonu as building blocks. Still not sure you can turn around an OL in one offseason which is frustrating but stranger things have happened

I agree, at this point I am at a loss as to who should stay or go. Replace either the Oline coach or the scouts who graded these players, someone's head has to roll for this. I tend to blame the O line coach as I just can't fathom that this group is that untalented or uncoachable.

Rookie contracts are affordable so I don't want to cut them loose just yet. However I do want fresh faces competing, preferably veterans, but I will not complain about O line draft picks either. 

However great our defense plays this is not a playoff caliber team with the offensive line performing in this manner. 

[FinSting]

1 minute ago, Phinsesq said:

However great our defense plays this is not a playoff caliber team with the offensive line performing in this manner. 

That play on MNF where Austin Jackson got confused and actually turned his back to the defensive rusher who ran right past him had me ready to throw the TV remote. The way the o-line always seems confused is a serious problem, you can't beat good teams with such silliness. Like, what do they do all week at practice? Don't they work on this stuff? "I'll take the guy on the left, you take the guy on the right?"

So frustrating. 

 

[Phinsesq]

2 minutes ago, FinSting said:

That play on MNF where Austin Jackson got confused and actually turned his back to the defensive rusher who ran right past him had me ready to throw the TV remote. The way the o-line always seems confused is a serious problem, you can't beat good teams with such silliness. Like, what do they do all week at practice? Don't they work on this stuff? "I'll take the guy on the left, you take the guy on the right?"

So frustrating. 

 

That play was sickening. You also won't beat many bad teams with that level of silliness. I commented in another thread that the most impressive thing about this winning streak is that it has been done behind this line. The most telling thing though, as ravaged as New Orleans was, their DL starters were playing as were our Oline starters and it was quite easy to tell how over matched we were in the trenches on offense.

People talk garbage on Tua because he throws short quick passes, the guy has to. It isn't like he is sitting in the pocket with all the time in the world and dumping the ball off. As much as some of us hate our OC's you have to give, whoever it is, credit for calling an offense that masks, as best it can, this glaring liability on this team.  It is Tua's success despite this line that makes me optimistic about him as a franchise QB. 

[Swampbilly]

1 hour ago, FinSting said:

Insult? No way. 9,000 posts about Watson and how Tua must be replaced is just not intelligent thinking. 

Cowherd also thinks Tua should be fired. Hence I don't like Cowherd. 

Cowherd says things intentionally to make controversy, so who knows what he actually believes.  

I'm happy with Tua.  I think he has played well, and I hope he will continue to play well and improve.  That being said, if there is a reasonable opportunity to upgrade at the most important position in professional sports then refusing to explore that opportunity is certainly " not intelligent thinking ".  Is Watson an upgrade?  Debatable.  Is Aaron Rogers an upgrade?  Certainly.

All just speculation, unless our front office does indeed make a move for Watson without exploring a move for Rogers.

[Swampbilly]

1 hour ago, Phinsesq said:

I agree, at this point I am at a loss as to who should stay or go. Replace either the Oline coach or the scouts who graded these players, someone's head has to roll for this. I tend to blame the O line coach as I just can't fathom that this group is that untalented or uncoachable.

Rookie contracts are affordable so I don't want to cut them loose just yet. However I do want fresh faces competing, preferably veterans, but I will not complain about O line draft picks either. 

However great our defense plays this is not a playoff caliber team with the offensive line performing in this manner. 

I am certain it's the Oline Coach combined with the Offensive scheme in general.  The easiest fix is to make a Coaching change after the season.  Jackson, Hunt, and Eichenberg were all drafted in reasonable range of where most experts had them in their mocks.  My point is that while 1 of them may certainly be a bust (Jackson) they weren't over drafted which mean they have reasonable talent.  I think Eichenberg is at his best at LG and we just need to move on from Jesse Davis while using Jackson as a swing tackle through his rookie contract.  We have to bring in improvements at LT and RT this off season and a Center improvement is needed too......but our OG's should be set with Hunt and Eichenberg.

[Phinsesq]

4 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

I am certain it's the Oline Coach combined with the Offensive scheme in general.  The easiest fix is to make a Coaching change after the season.  Jackson, Hunt, and Eichenberg were all drafted in reasonable range of where most experts had them in their mocks.  My point is that while 1 of them may certainly be a bust (Jackson) they weren't over drafted which mean they have reasonable talent.  I think Eichenberg is at his best at LG and we just need to move on from Jesse Davis while using Jackson as a swing tackle through his rookie contract.  We have to bring in improvements at LT and RT this off season and a Center improvement is needed too......but our OG's should be set with Hunt and Eichenberg.

Jackson has just looked awful this year and unfortunately I have to agree that he is definitely on the bust radar. He is still cheap enough that I hope they give him a chance to turn it around though. . 

[Emerica]

In addition to the projected $75M cap space we'll have this offseason, we can gain more cap by cutting the following players:

Jesse Davis - $3,610,000

Allen Hurns - $3,175,000

Cethan Carter - $2,540,000

Clayton Fejedelem - $2,775,000

Adam Shaheen - $1,925,000

Greg Little - $1,536,000

Lynn Bowden - $1,038,000

Calvin Munson - $1,215,000

Total - $17,814,000

 

Also a possibly:

Eric Rowe - $4,550,000

Adam Butler - $3,750,000

Total - $8,300,000

 

It would be a lot of turnover but most these guys are JAGs and easily replaceable for cheaper, we could potentially have $100M+ worth of cap space available this offseason. Keeping in mind we need to re-sign a few big names, we definitely have the possibility to go big game hunting but we have had mixed (if not bad) results under Grier in Free Agency. OL is definitely priority #1. If I were to rank our primary needs, this is how it'd go:

1. OL (3 new starters needed at least. Both OTs, LG or C)

2. ILB (Roberts can't start another season. He's not bad in run stop but he's a huge liability in the pass game and should not be anything more than a depth option)

3. RB (Duke Johnson has made a good case to be re-signed and be part of the committee for next year. Everyone else can kick rocks)

4. WR (We know we have a stud in Waddle, Parker is not a bad #2 but we know we're only getting him for 10-11 games a year)

5. CB (Think we need to start thinking about contingency for Howard and Jones. They are paid a lotttt and don't think its sustainable to keep both at those salaries. Igbo has been a total bust)

 

 

[Swampbilly]

9 hours ago, Emerica said:

In addition to the projected $75M cap space we'll have this offseason, we can gain more cap by cutting the following players:

Jesse Davis - $3,610,000

Allen Hurns - $3,175,000

Cethan Carter - $2,540,000

Clayton Fejedelem - $2,775,000

Adam Shaheen - $1,925,000

Greg Little - $1,536,000

Lynn Bowden - $1,038,000

Calvin Munson - $1,215,000

Total - $17,814,000

 

Also a possibly:

Eric Rowe - $4,550,000

Adam Butler - $3,750,000

Total - $8,300,000

 

It would be a lot of turnover but most these guys are JAGs and easily replaceable for cheaper, we could potentially have $100M+ worth of cap space available this offseason. Keeping in mind we need to re-sign a few big names, we definitely have the possibility to go big game hunting but we have had mixed (if not bad) results under Grier in Free Agency. OL is definitely priority #1. If I were to rank our primary needs, this is how it'd go:

1. OL (3 new starters needed at least. Both OTs, LG or C)

2. ILB (Roberts can't start another season. He's not bad in run stop but he's a huge liability in the pass game and should not be anything more than a depth option)

3. RB (Duke Johnson has made a good case to be re-signed and be part of the committee for next year. Everyone else can kick rocks)

4. WR (We know we have a stud in Waddle, Parker is not a bad #2 but we know we're only getting him for 10-11 games a year)

5. CB (Think we need to start thinking about contingency for Howard and Jones. They are paid a lotttt and don't think its sustainable to keep both at those salaries. Igbo has been a total bust)

 

 

I mostly agree, but I would keep Butler, Shaheen, and Bowden.

Our 3 new starters on the OLine should be at LT,RT, and C IMO.  Eich fits best as a LG and he isn't going anywhere while he's on his rookie contract.  Hunt would be able to cut loose and be the beast he is with a stud RT and C next to him.

[hrubes20]

My offseason:

STARING CAP ROOM - $74,267,000

Cuts

Allen Hurns - Saves $3.175 million

Cethan Carter - Saves 2.54 million

CAP ROOM AFTER CUTS - $79.982

Resign

Xavien Howard - CB - 4 years/$70 million - Let's not forget that he will get a  raise as well, after the holdout stuff last offseason.  He wasn't quite as amazing as he was in 2020, but he's still easily one of the best in the game.  He'll get more than Slay per year and should be in the Trevarious White range of $17.5 million.

Emmanuel Ogbah - DE - 3 years/$42 million - He's just a really big part of the defense and need to keep him around.  This is probably as high as I go for him, unfortunately.  

Duke Johnson - RB - 2 years/$4 million - I really like what I've seen from him and I want to give him a shot going forward.

Mack Hollins - WR/ST - 2 years/$4 million - I think this is the going rate for a guy like Hollins?  Either way, he's great on ST and is fine as a 5th WR as long as he isn't asked to do too much.

Nik Needham - CB - 3 years/$9 million - He's a RFA and he's been solid. I think he gets this offer and I would want the Fins to match it.  A little more money than the Justin Coleman level.

Durham Smythe - TE - 2 years/$4 million - He isn't dynamic, but he's solid enough.  Shaheen/Long/Smythe can get the job done at TE.

I let the rest of them walk, including Gesicki. 

CAP ROOM AFTER RESIGINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $54.482 million

 

FA Signings

Terron Armstead - LT - 4 years/$84 million -  I don't think Armstead resets the top of the LT market, and I predict he comes in between Bakhtiari and Staley.

Bobbie Massie - RT - 2 years/$12 million - He's been a perfectly acceptable starting RT.  Not a pro bowler, but not a liability.  That's a huge upgrade on this OL.

Braxton Berrios - WR - 3 years/$18 million - He gets open and runs good routes.  The addition of Berrios and a healthy Bowden would open it up underneath for Waddle to run longer routes.

A.J. McCarron - QB - 2 years/$3 million - Need a backup QB.  You could substitute any other of the guys in this range.  

Bryan Angar - P - 2 years/$4 million - Need an upgrade here, and Angar is coming off a great year

CAP ROOM AFTER SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $17.982 million

 

DRAFT

Round 1 - Tyler Linderbaum - C - Iowa

Round 2 - Christian Harris - MLB - Alabama

Round 3 - Tyler Allgeier - RB - BYU

Round 4 - Charleston Rambo - WR - Miami

Round 4 - Zyon McCollum - CB - Sam Houston State

Round 5 - Bailey Zappe - QB - Western Kentucky

Rounds 6 and 7 can be used to move up as needed

CAP ROOM AFTER DRAFT (estimate) - $6.892 million

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Emerica]

3 hours ago, hrubes20 said:

My offseason:

STARING CAP ROOM - $74,267,000

Cuts

Allen Hurns - Saves $3.175 million

Cethan Carter - Saves 2.54 million

CAP ROOM AFTER CUTS - $79.982

Resign

Xavien Howard - CB - 4 years/$70 million - Let's not forget that he will get a  raise as well, after the holdout stuff last offseason.  He wasn't quite as amazing as he was in 2020, but he's still easily one of the best in the game.  He'll get more than Slay per year and should be in the Trevarious White range of $17.5 million.

Emmanuel Ogbah - DE - 3 years/$42 million - He's just a really big part of the defense and need to keep him around.  This is probably as high as I go for him, unfortunately.  

Duke Johnson - RB - 2 years/$4 million - I really like what I've seen from him and I want to give him a shot going forward.

Mack Hollins - WR/ST - 2 years/$4 million - I think this is the going rate for a guy like Hollins?  Either way, he's great on ST and is fine as a 5th WR as long as he isn't asked to do too much.

Nik Needham - CB - 3 years/$9 million - He's a RFA and he's been solid. I think he gets this offer and I would want the Fins to match it.  A little more money than the Justin Coleman level.

Durham Smythe - TE - 2 years/$4 million - He isn't dynamic, but he's solid enough.  Shaheen/Long/Smythe can get the job done at TE.

I let the rest of them walk, including Gesicki. 

CAP ROOM AFTER RESIGINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $54.482 million

 

FA Signings

Terron Armstead - LT - 4 years/$84 million -  I don't think Armstead resets the top of the LT market, and I predict he comes in between Bakhtiari and Staley.

Bobbie Massie - RT - 2 years/$12 million - He's been a perfectly acceptable starting RT.  Not a pro bowler, but not a liability.  That's a huge upgrade on this OL.

Braxton Berrios - WR - 3 years/$18 million - He gets open and runs good routes.  The addition of Berrios and a healthy Bowden would open it up underneath for Waddle to run longer routes.

A.J. McCarron - QB - 2 years/$3 million - Need a backup QB.  You could substitute any other of the guys in this range.  

Bryan Angar - P - 2 years/$4 million - Need an upgrade here, and Angar is coming off a great year

CAP ROOM AFTER SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $17.982 million

 

DRAFT

Round 1 - Tyler Linderbaum - C - Iowa

Round 2 - Christian Harris - MLB - Alabama

Round 3 - Tyler Allgeier - RB - BYU

Round 4 - Charleston Rambo - WR - Miami

Round 4 - Zyon McCollum - CB - Sam Houston State

Round 5 - Bailey Zappe - QB - Western Kentucky

Rounds 6 and 7 can be used to move up as needed

CAP ROOM AFTER DRAFT (estimate) - $6.892 million

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like it! I have my reservations about Armstead since he's very injury prone but he is unequivocally the top OL in free agency so i'd be happy with him. Getting Linderbaum in the 20s would be amazing.

I'll try to do a mock in the event we trade for Watson and see what that could look like cap-wise

[Emerica]

STARTING CAP ROOM - $74,267,000

Cuts

Jesse Davis - Saves $3,610,000

Allen Hurns - Saves $3,175,000

Cethan Carter - Saves $2,540,000

Eric Rowe - Saves $4,550,000

Greg Little - Saves $1,536,000

CAP ROOM AFTER CUTS - $89,678,000

Trade

Deshaun Watson for 3 1sts and a 2nd - Adds $40,400,000

Tua Tagovailoa for a 2nd (post June 1) - Saves $3,362,000

CAP ROOM AFTER TRADES - $52,640,000

Resign

Xavien Howard - CB - 4 years/$70 million - Adds $1,142,000 to his scheduled cap hit

Emmanuel Ogbah - DE - 3 years/$42 million - Adds $14,000,000

Duke Johnson - RB - 2 years/$4 million - Adds $2,000,000

Mack Hollins - WR/ST - 2 years/$4 million - Adds $2,000,000

Nik Needham - CB - 3 years/$9 million - Adds $3,000,000

Jason McCourty - S/CB - 1 year/$1.2 million - Adds $1,200,000

 

CAP ROOM AFTER RE-SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $29,298,000

 

FA Signings

Orlando Brown JR - LT - 4 years/$72 million -  Adds $18,000,000

Colt McCoy - QB - 1 years/$1 million - Adds $1,000,000

Corey Bojorquez - P - 2 years/$3.25 million - Adds $1,625,000

Chris Herndon - TE - 1 year/$1.15 million - Adds $1,150,000

CAP ROOM AFTER SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $7,523,000

 

DRAFT

Round 2 - Zion Johnson - OG - Boston College

Round 3 - Breece Hall - RB - Iowa State

Round 4 - Brian Asamoah - ILB - Oklahoma

Round 4 - Khalil Shakir - WR - Boise State

Round 5 - Josh Jobe - CB - Alabama

Rounds 6 and 7 can be used to move up as needed

CAP ROOM AFTER DRAFT (estimate) - Probably $0 😂  I'm sure there's some financial gymnastics that can get us under the cap. Watson's cap peaks in 2023 and then decreases for the next two seasons. I'm sure he wouldn't be against restructuring to help the cap after the favour we gave him. We can also increase the signing bonus and lower the base salary for the signing, that would effectively lower their cap-hits.

 

Depth Chart

LT - Orlando Brown, Austin Jackson

LG - Zion Johnson, Solomon Kindley

C - Michael Dieter

RG - Robert Hunt, Robert Jones

RT - Liam Eichenberg, Larnel Coleman

QB - Deshaun Watson, Colt McCoy

RB - Duke Johnson, Breece Hall, Myles Gaskin

TE - Adam Shaheen, Hunter Long, Chris Herndon

WR - Jaylen Waddle, Devante Parker, Mack Hollins, Lynn Bowden, Khalil Shakir

EDGE - Emmanuel Ogbah

DT - Christian Wilkins, Adam Butler

NT - Raekwon Davis, Zach Sieler

OLB - Jaelan Phillips, Andrew Van Ginkel

ILB - Brian Asamoah, Sam Eguavoen

OLB - Jerome Baker, Calvin Munson

CB - Xavien Howard, Trill Williams

Nickel - Nik Needham, Noah Igbinoghene

S - Jevon Holland, Clayton Fejedelem

S - Brandon Jones, Jason McCourty

CB - Byron Jones, Josh Jobe

K - Jason Sanders

P - Corey Bojorquez

[Tetsujin]

Gesicki is a unique talent who can really bail out our offense. I’d keep him over Ogbah. 

 

[Emerica]

 

One option off the board

 

[JourneymanQB13]

Well. . . looks like we need a new coach. . . can't believe we have to talk about this. . . 

Who would take this job to work for Grier and Ross? Not sure! 

Candidates: 

Eric Bieniemy (KC Chiefs OC): Probably should have been hired as a HC years ago. I think this would be a great hire. The pendulum will probably swing back to an offensive mind. Flores was an attractive hire after Gase. Maybe an offensive-minded coach will be the next hire to correct the struggles under Flores. Bieniemy has been excellent as a play caller. However, you wonder how he would do when he does not have the absolute overpowered arsenal KC has. Off the top of my head, he would be my #1 candidate. 

 

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC): 2021 COY in college football. Took the 49ers to SB XLVII. Former NFL QB. There were rumors around Harbaugh during our last coaching vacancy. Heck, I believe there were rumors that we tried to land Harbaugh while Gase was still employed (shows how well Ross handles coaching hires). Given their Michigan ties, I would not be shocked, but I don't love bringing in Harbaugh the way I like the idea of Bieniemy. Plus, I don't see Harbaugh leaving Michigan to come coach the Dolphins. 

 

 

[hrubes20]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:32 PM, Emerica said:

STARTING CAP ROOM - $74,267,000

Cuts

Jesse Davis - Saves $3,610,000

Allen Hurns - Saves $3,175,000

Cethan Carter - Saves $2,540,000

Eric Rowe - Saves $4,550,000

Greg Little - Saves $1,536,000

CAP ROOM AFTER CUTS - $89,678,000

Trade

Deshaun Watson for 3 1sts and a 2nd - Adds $40,400,000

Tua Tagovailoa for a 2nd (post June 1) - Saves $3,362,000

CAP ROOM AFTER TRADES - $52,640,000

Resign

Xavien Howard - CB - 4 years/$70 million - Adds $1,142,000 to his scheduled cap hit

Emmanuel Ogbah - DE - 3 years/$42 million - Adds $14,000,000

Duke Johnson - RB - 2 years/$4 million - Adds $2,000,000

Mack Hollins - WR/ST - 2 years/$4 million - Adds $2,000,000

Nik Needham - CB - 3 years/$9 million - Adds $3,000,000

Jason McCourty - S/CB - 1 year/$1.2 million - Adds $1,200,000

 

CAP ROOM AFTER RE-SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $29,298,000

 

FA Signings

Orlando Brown JR - LT - 4 years/$72 million -  Adds $18,000,000

Colt McCoy - QB - 1 years/$1 million - Adds $1,000,000

Corey Bojorquez - P - 2 years/$3.25 million - Adds $1,625,000

Chris Herndon - TE - 1 year/$1.15 million - Adds $1,150,000

CAP ROOM AFTER SIGNINGS (assuming no creative accounting) - $7,523,000

 

DRAFT

Round 2 - Zion Johnson - OG - Boston College

Round 3 - Breece Hall - RB - Iowa State

Round 4 - Brian Asamoah - ILB - Oklahoma

Round 4 - Khalil Shakir - WR - Boise State

Round 5 - Josh Jobe - CB - Alabama

Rounds 6 and 7 can be used to move up as needed

CAP ROOM AFTER DRAFT (estimate) - Probably $0 😂  I'm sure there's some financial gymnastics that can get us under the cap. Watson's cap peaks in 2023 and then decreases for the next two seasons. I'm sure he wouldn't be against restructuring to help the cap after the favour we gave him. We can also increase the signing bonus and lower the base salary for the signing, that would effectively lower their cap-hits.

 

Depth Chart

LT - Orlando Brown, Austin Jackson

LG - Zion Johnson, Solomon Kindley

C - Michael Dieter

RG - Robert Hunt, Robert Jones

RT - Liam Eichenberg, Larnel Coleman

QB - Deshaun Watson, Colt McCoy

RB - Duke Johnson, Breece Hall, Myles Gaskin

TE - Adam Shaheen, Hunter Long, Chris Herndon

WR - Jaylen Waddle, Devante Parker, Mack Hollins, Lynn Bowden, Khalil Shakir

EDGE - Emmanuel Ogbah

DT - Christian Wilkins, Adam Butler

NT - Raekwon Davis, Zach Sieler

OLB - Jaelan Phillips, Andrew Van Ginkel

ILB - Brian Asamoah, Sam Eguavoen

OLB - Jerome Baker, Calvin Munson

CB - Xavien Howard, Trill Williams

Nickel - Nik Needham, Noah Igbinoghene

S - Jevon Holland, Clayton Fejedelem

S - Brandon Jones, Jason McCourty

CB - Byron Jones, Josh Jobe

K - Jason Sanders

P - Corey Bojorquez

I just cannot get on board with any offseason that has Watson coming to Miami.  I can't do it.  

On 1/5/2022 at 6:42 PM, Tetsujin said:

Gesicki is a unique talent who can really bail out our offense. I’d keep him over Ogbah. 

 

Is he though?  He's essentially just a big WR.  He doesn't block.  He can't change directions quickly.  He doesn't get separation.  What he does really well is make contested catches.  There is a certainly a use for that, but not at the price he's likely to command.