Week 17: Rams AT Ravens

[LeotheLion]

54 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

We're 5-0 since the start of December.

Stafford is who he is. He turns the ball over. It's inevitable. I wish he didnt, but with a successful run game, we should be able to minimize that. Michel is something we didn't use properly in the 1st matchup vs GB. 

I do agree though, the GB game would be concerning for me. If he's getting picked off on bombs downfield I'm far less annoyed then the pick 6's we've seen. 

But he hasn't turned the ball over to this degree in awhile. This is his most interceptions since 2013. His pass attempts aren't up and this is the best rushing attack he's ever had. He's had the most positive game scripts ever for a season. Yes, he is a gunslinger but this uptick in picks is unusual with what you'd expect. A bad 2 game stretch is part of the reason for this but he's also in the middle of that stretch so we don't know if that will work out before the playoffs. 

And the true back breaker is the bulk of his interceptions are inside our own 30 yard line. I heard a stat on a podcast that I think 9 of his 15 were in that range with 4 pick 6s. So when Stafford is throwing picks, he's also gifting the other team points. 

29 minutes ago, JonStark said:

If Jordan Fuller doesn't intercept that pass, we most likely lose to the depleted Ravens because Stafford put us in another hole.

I don't care which side of the fence you are on but you need to call it both ways. You cannot crucify Goff for his turnovers in this offense (he never had 4 pick sixes in a season) and then give Stafford a pass for his when they are both equally as bad. 

Goff only had 4 pick 6s in his entire career with the Rams. TBF to Stafford, obviously the 49ers one wasn't his fault. I actually looked up yesterday to see if Stafford can have the record for most pick 6s in a season and saw Jamesis had 7 one year lol

[BStanRamFan]

1 minute ago, JonStark said:

You keep talking about the outcome and the fact that we won. We won in spite of Stafford on Sunday.  The defense won us that game and OBJ came in with the save (on another bad pass on 4th down).

So the game winning drive we put together, Stafford gets no credit for, it's all cause OBJ came in with the save. And I'm the one spinning things? 

 

[JonStark]

3 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

So the game winning drive we put together, Stafford gets no credit for, it's all cause OBJ came in with the save. And I'm the one spinning things? 

 

If you're looking at his play for the entire game, he did more harm than he did good (against a secondary that Burrow destroyed the week before). Without the Fuller interception and the defense holding them to FGs, Stafford would have put us in a hole that we wouldn't have been able to come back from. The defense won us that game.

Imagine thinking that "Stafford has been playing bad lately" is a hot take. 

[BStanRamFan]

33 minutes ago, JonStark said:

If you're looking at his play for the entire game, he did more harm than he did good (against a secondary that Burrow destroyed the week before). Without the Fuller interception and the defense holding them to FGs, Stafford would have put us in a hole that we wouldn't have been able to come back from. The defense won us that game.

OK flip it. If Stafford played well the entire game and choked on the last drive to win the game, what would your narrative be? "We need a QB who can win when it matters"

Matt Stafford leads the league in 2H passer rating**. Just heard this on Cowherd and hasn't been mentioned on here. One of the best second half teams in the NFL. Winning when it matters. 

33 minutes ago, JonStark said:

Imagine thinking that "Stafford has been playing bad lately" is a hot take. 

It's not a hot take to pick on his last 2 games and ignore the previous 3 games he played well in December. It's par for the course around here. Cause then we look at the quality of opponent and put a negative spin on that. And when that angle is hammered too much, we'll say OBJ saved us with his catch on the last drive. 

I don't think the sky is falling. I think we are positioned to win a Superbowl and are in the best spot for it under the McVay era. Stafford needs to keep the INT's to a minimum and eliminate the Pick 6's/INT's within our 30 entirely. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by BStanRamFan

[LeotheLion]

45 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

OK flip it. If Stafford played well the entire game and choked on the last drive to win the game, what would your narrative be? "We need a QB who can win when it matters"

No. And we wouldn't have lost if that happened. The defense only gave up 12 points. The only reason it was a game was because Stafford was bad for basically an entire half + one unfortunate 2nd half fumble. It just so happens that literally every loss this year Stafford has played between 2-4 bad quarters. The only game I think would fall into this would be if he threw a pick in the Indy game when it was 24-24 before the game winning FG drive. I think most people would have blamed the special teams for that loss. 

46 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

It's not a hot take to pick on his last 2 games and ignore the previous 3 games he played well in December. It's par for the course around here. Cause then we look at the quality of opponent and put a negative spin on that. And when that angle is hammered too much, we'll say OBJ saved us with his catch on the last drive. 

His last 8 games are the concerning part. He's averaging 271 passing yards, 2 tds, and 1.625 turnovers a game in that frame. His YPA went from 9.1 the first 8 games down to 7.3 over the last 8. His play has completely fallen off after a hot start and he's a different QB. He was also sacked 7 times the first 8 games and has been sacked 18 times the last 8. The only thing I can point to for some optimism with Stafford is how special he looked during the Arizona game. That QB can go toe to toe with Rodgers and win. But it seems foolish to expect that to happen. 

54 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I don't think the sky is falling. I think we are positioned to win a Superbowl and are in the best spot for it under the McVay era. Stafford needs to keep the INT's to a minimum and eliminate the Pick 6's/INT's within our 30 entirely. 

Lol. We are definitely not. You love to throw out Vegas futures. The 2018 Rams going into the playoffs had significantly better odds. It was close to +450-500. A lot of that was due to the bye which is something we had a great shot at getting this year and squandered. 

[JonStark]

58 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

OK flip it. If Stafford played well the entire game and choked on the last drive to win the game, what would your narrative be? "We need a QB who can win when it matters"

Matt Stafford leads the league in 2H passer rating**. Just heard this on Cowherd and hasn't been mentioned on here. One of the best second half teams in the NFL. Winning when it matters. 

It's not a hot take to pick on his last 2 games and ignore the previous 3 games he played well in December. It's par for the course around here. Cause then we look at the quality of opponent and put a negative spin on that. And when that angle is hammered too much, we'll say OBJ saved us with his catch on the last drive. 

I don't think the sky is falling. I think we are positioned to win a Superbowl and are in the best spot for it under the McVay era. Stafford needs to keep the INT's to a minimum and eliminate the Pick 6's/INT's within our 30 entirely. 

It's amazing the lengths you'll go to to avoid saying he's been playing bad. 

And no, if he plays well the entire game, I can promise you the fault would fall on someone else (most likely the defense in that scenario). I'll always call a spade a spade

[Flounch]

Stafford threw 5 INT against the Vikings and the Ravens that are the worst in passing defense this season in NFL. 

I mean not only he threw INT but he struggled against these weak defense. So yes it's time to worry a little bit. 

I mean, when you see Stafford play and you have to pray for Mcvay calling a run instead of a pass because you're affraid of his mistake. 

It's the same thing as last year when you prayed for Goff not tossing a stupid INT int a crucial moment. 

I had faith in Stafford at the beginning of the season but now it's like 50/50. 

I just hope we are going to run heavy in the PO.  

[NVRamsFan]

2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I dont excuse it, I learn to work with things that cannot be changed. It's Week 18 and we know what we have in Stafford now. A high ceiling above average QB with a propensity to throw interceptions. Some of those interceptions are Pick 6's (4) and some are on deep balls that essentially act as punts, but kill drives. What we have done to mitigate that is establish a run game with Michel and increase the effectiveness of the PA pass from it.

You get mad every day the sky's blue?

Lol I’m not mad at anything. But I’m a

sp not ma,I g excuses for our QB when he makes mistakes. Anger never enters the equation that ridiculous to think I’m angry lol

[BStanRamFan]

7 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

No. And we wouldn't have lost if that happened. The defense only gave up 12 points. The only reason it was a game was because Stafford was bad for basically an entire half + one unfortunate 2nd half fumble. It just so happens that literally every loss this year Stafford has played between 2-4 bad quarters. The only game I think would fall into this would be if he threw a pick in the Indy game when it was 24-24 before the game winning FG drive. I think most people would have blamed the special teams for that loss. 

His last 8 games are the concerning part. He's averaging 271 passing yards, 2 tds, and 1.625 turnovers a game in that frame. His YPA went from 9.1 the first 8 games down to 7.3 over the last 8. His play has completely fallen off after a hot start and he's a different QB. He was also sacked 7 times the first 8 games and has been sacked 18 times the last 8. The only thing I can point to for some optimism with Stafford is how special he looked during the Arizona game. That QB can go toe to toe with Rodgers and win. But it seems foolish to expect that to happen. 

Lol. We are definitely not. You love to throw out Vegas futures. The 2018 Rams going into the playoffs had significantly better odds. It was close to +450-500. A lot of that was due to the bye which is something we had a great shot at getting this year and squandered. 

Every media outlet caught wind of the story that Patriots were salivating at the chance to play Goff in the superbowl. They called it the most sure they've ever been at winning of their 8 appearances. They knew they weren't losing. 

We have Ramsey and Von Miller this year vs 2018. We don't have Jared Goff. We have a better chance of winning the superbowl this year over any other under McVay IMO.

 

6 minutes ago, JonStark said:

It's amazing the lengths you'll go to to avoid saying he's been playing bad. 

And no, if he plays well the entire game, I can promise you the fault would fall on someone else (most likely the defense in that scenario). I'll always call a spade a spade

He played poorly the last 2 games. He played great the previous 3. He's leading the league in 2H passer rating. 

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

Every media outlet caught wind of the story that Patriots were salivating at the chance to play Goff in the superbowl. They called it the most sure they've ever been at winning of their 8 appearances. They knew they weren't losing. 

We have Ramsey and Von Miller this year vs 2018. We don't have Jared Goff. We have a better chance of winning the superbowl this year over any other under McVay IMO.

So can we agree that every time you throw out Vegas odds that they are only relevant when they fit your argument? Because going into the playoffs in 2018 the Rams were a 5:1 favorite. Now they are about 9:1. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by LeotheLion

[BStanRamFan]

1 hour ago, LeotheLion said:

So can we can that every time you throw out Vegas odds that they are only relevant when they fit your argument? Because going into the playoffs in 2018 the Rams were a 5:1 favorite. Now they are about 9:1. 

Fair point. I do put alot of stock in Vegas as they are truly a neutral party.

My opinion doesn't change though. I feel very good about this teams chances to win a superbowl and do have a better feeling than 2018 and it's cause of Stafford (and Ramsey/Von Miller) . I believe he has it in him to do what the great QB's do; I never felt that way with Goff. But that's just me. 

[LeotheLion]

6 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Fair point. I do put alot of stock in Vegas as they are truly a neutral party.

My opinion doesn't change though. I feel very good about this teams chances to win a superbowl and do have a better feeling than 2018 and it's cause of Stafford (and Ramsey/Von Miller) . I believe he has it in him to do what the great QB's do; I never felt that way with Goff. But that's just me. 

If the 2018 team played the 2021 team, I think the 2021 team wins. Especially late in the year when Kupp was out and Gurley was cooked. The bye week is such an advantage. 

[stl4life07]

OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH!!

Yall act like Stafford is the only QB who has double digit turnovers.

Matthew Stafford - 15 ints and 5 fumbles - 20 times putting the ball into harms way

Josh Allen - 15 ints and 8 fumbles - 24 times putting the ball into harms way

Joe Burrow - 14 ints and 5 fumbles - 19 times putting the ball into harms way

Derek Carr - 14 ints and 12 fumbles - 26 times putting the ball into harms way

Justin Herbert - 14 ints and 1 fumbles - 15 times putting the ball into harms way

Ryan Tannehill - 14 ints and 10 fumbles - 24 times putting the ball into harms way

Patrick Mahomes - 13 ints and 9 fumbles - 22 times putting the ball into harms way

Tom Brady - 12 ints and 4 fumbles - 16 times putting the ball into harms way

Mac Jones - 12 ints and 6 fumbles - 18 times putting the ball into harms way

Jimmy G - 10 ints and 7 fumbles - 17 times putting the ball into harms way

Kyler Murray - 10 ints and 13 fumbles - 23 times putting the ball into harms way

Dak Prescott - 10 ints and and 14 fumbles - 24 times putting the ball into harms way

If turnovers is the only stat that we strictly focus on then give the trophy to the Packers due to ARod not turning the ball over ever. All these QBs compared to Stafford as also turning the ball over just as much if not more. As a matter of fact in terms of putting the ball into harms way, Stafford is 7th on this list. The fact that alot of people are freaking out like they are just shows you its really not the turnovers for Stafford its really the narrative. Mahomes have put the ball into harms way 24 times which is more than Stafford yet people arent even panicking about him and the Chiefs. Which btw their offense has been inconsistent all season long, Mahomes mechanics have been bad and they just came off a game where they blew a 14pt lead they had 3 times against the Bengals and they only scored 3pts in the entire 2nd half. Yet everyone still believes they are going to cruise into the playoffs. Stafford on the other had just went 15/15 and led two td drives that won the game for the Rams on the road after being down by 9pts in the 4th quarter. I saw a stat that said Stafford had a 1.4% chance of doing what he did in the 2nd half by going 15/15. Ill keep saying it, we know the playoffs will be tight and in the 4th quarter there are only four QBs I trust in the 4th quarter in a close ball game. Those QBs are ARod, Brady, Mahomes, and Stafford. Yall can overthink things all you want to but when Stafford turns the ball over and cost the Rams in a close ball game in the 4th quarter in the playoffs THEN WE CAN TALK. Until then Im still trusting him bc he has delivered for this team this season. The Rams are one win away from the 2 seed and winning division. At this point, what more do you want from the team as a whole? I know we didnt get the 1 seed which would be the best case scenario but only one team can get it and the Packers got it in the NFC. The Rams had the 2 seed in 2018 and had to go to New Orleans to get to the Superbowl and we did it. Why cant the Rams, if they get the 2 seed, go to the Superbowl from the 2 seed again?

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by stl4life07

[LeotheLion]

22 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

If turnovers is the only stat that we strictly focus on then give the trophy to the Packers due to ARod not turning the ball over ever.

Per McVay and I agree with him "other points, there's no better indicator of winning and losing football games than turnovers and takeaways". We cannot expect to win the turnover battle when we are giving the ball away 2-3 times a game. Look at all of our losses this year, the constant theme is turnovers by Stafford. We showed the last 2 weeks that with great defense and special teams play that we can overcome the hiccups. But that's not a path to victory that we should expect to be replicable in the playoffs. Even with how well Stafford played in the 2nd half yesterday, it still took a defensive stand at the end to win. If we would have given that ball at the end to Rodgers, Brady, Prescott, or Kyler I would guess they'd get 35 yards in 1 minute to have a shot to win with a FG. I'd expect Stafford to do it too FWIW.

I don't really care what other QBs are doing. I would imagine if the other QBs have had 13 turnovers in the last 8 games then their fanbases would be concerned as well. 

[stl4life07]

36 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Per McVay and I agree with him "other points, there's no better indicator of winning and losing football games than turnovers and takeaways". We cannot expect to win the turnover battle when we are giving the ball away 2-3 times a game. Look at all of our losses this year, the constant theme is turnovers by Stafford. We showed the last 2 weeks that with great defense and special teams play that we can overcome the hiccups. But that's not a path to victory that we should expect to be replicable in the playoffs. Even with how well Stafford played in the 2nd half yesterday, it still took a defensive stand at the end to win. If we would have given that ball at the end to Rodgers, Brady, Prescott, or Kyler I would guess they'd get 35 yards in 1 minute to have a shot to win with a FG. I'd expect Stafford to do it too FWIW.

I don't really care what other QBs are doing. I would imagine if the other QBs have had 13 turnovers in the last 8 games then their fanbases would be concerned as well. 

McVay also said "be at your best when the best is required" and isnt that what Stafford is doing? He is at his best when the best is required. In the 4th quarter when the Rams have to close or when the Rams have to have it to win, Stafford has delivered. I agree that we cant have Stafford turning the ball over multiple times a game and expect to consistently win but I feel like this is a different team now. When the Rams were losing to the Titans, Niners, and even the Packers the common theme was either the defense didnt step up or there was no running game to help get the offense going. Now the defense is playing more consistent great football and the running game is playing great. That means that the room for error is bigger. The reason why the Chiefs are where they are at despite Mahomes turning the ball over alot is their defense was literally playing as the best unit in the NFL. They could get away with Mahomes turning the ball over 2-3 times and the offense being down. I would hear Nick Wright on "First Things First" debate how everyone is bashing the Chiefs bc they are winning different ways now than they just winning one way which is Mahomes being MVP 5,000yds passing 50tds. Despite all of his struggles the Chiefs literally went on a 7 game winning streak. Nobody is saying today they dont trust the Chiefs as a result. 

I think with the Rams the fans are moving the goal post. They said with Goff if he came out of the gates and struggled they knew he wasnt going to recover the rest of the game. People held their breath waiting for him to turn the ball over no matter what time of the game it was. Now with Stafford who easily gets better as the game goes on to the point where he hasnt turned the ball over once in the 4th quarter and no matter how shaky he might be early he comes through in the clutch when it matters the most, people are still trying to make it a bigger deal than it really is. Yes its a deal, yes there is reason to be concern. Im not saying it isnt but the Rams are currently on a 5 game winning streak. Stafford just went 15-15 and led two td drives when his team had to have them on the road against a well-coached football team. The same team that was a 2pc away from beating the Packers a few weeks ago and ARod didnt turn the ball over. Just wrap your head around that. The best team in the NFL and the soon to be two time MVP didnt turn the ball over and almost blew a 14pt lead in the 4th quarter to lose to the Ravens in Baltimore had the Ravens converted on the 2pc. Yet we sit here today and focusing all our energy on the first half where Stafford made two bad decisions and not focusing solely on a nearly flawless 2nd half. I say near flawless bc of that fumble he had to open the 2nd half. Outside of that he played flawless in the 2nd half to lead the Rams to another victory. The goal post was moved again when people questioned if the Rams can win 4 straight games. They are on a 5 game winning streak that nobody is talking about. 

Again Im not saying to ignore Stafford turning the ball over bc he has to clean it up but if anyone think he has to play perfect football to win they I dont know what to tell you. I can live with a turnover or even two if its in the 1st half. Why? Bc we have eye witness now that the Rams as a team is playing so well that they will keep the game close if not flat out still lead and Stafford will not lose the game for them late. As a matter of fact he will win the game for the Rams late. If Stafford turns the ball over late then we can press the alarm button. You said if those other QBs are turning the ball over 13 times in 8 games their fanbase would be concerned. Ill do you one better. Those fanbase are concerned when their QB, Dak, up by 14pts in the 4th quarter throws a pick 6 that gives Washington hope to still win. Those fanbase is concerned when Mahomes throws a pick in the 4th quarter but was bailed out on a defensive penalty against the Giants or else the Giants wouldve had a chance to come back and possibly win. So those fanbases are concerned bc their QBs are turning the ball over leading in the 4th quarter that literally almost cost them the game if not flat out cost them the game in other cases.

Edited January 4, 2022 by stl4life07