AZBearsFan Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 In trying to piece together an initial mock offseason I got to thinking about what we have on defense vs. what we need. Regardless of scheme we need at least 1 CB and probably 2 (Graham has shown promise but hasn’t played enough to assure him a 2022 role) and another starting safety or to retain Gipson (I’d rather someone with more of a box presence). We’re also almost surely going to need to replace Trevathan and Hicks. For what we have for sure here in 2022 I think Roquan, Jaylon, and Jackson will be what they are regardless of scheme. Mack, Quinn and Gipson all mostly rush with a hand down anyway so I’d say much the same. As far as the DL/LB replacements, we can kind of go whatever way we want with that. Just spit balling, Goldman (if kept) and Tonga can play big DT in a 4-3 (thinking Jauron with Washington/Traylor), but not 3T. Trevathan could be replaced with a more traditional OLB if we go 4-3, but then we’d need to add extra OLB because Mack/Quinn/Gipson would shift to DE. To be clear, we’re in nickel like 65% of the time, so 3-4/4-3 isn’t as relevant as it used to be IMO, and I still think what we will have for sure coming back next year probably better fits a 3-4 (our biggest problems on D are what we don’t have in the secondary, not schematic), but we’re at a place now with so many FAs and with a pretty scheme-diverse group of guys under contract where we don’t necessarily have to stay 3-4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Im sure I was talking with someone on this on here not too long ago (Heinz?) and completely agree we can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Truth is this team along with the rest of the NFL hasn't been a true 3-4 D for a long time...nor a 4-3...every team is a 4-2-5... Where it gets interesting is do you play a traditional 4 man front or 2 bigger DL and 2 stand up OLBs? & do you play a traditional Nickelback or a 3rd Safety in base? Those are the questions for me...personally I believe we have the personal with some offseason tweaks to do both. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 The transition wouldn't be too painful, as Mack and Quinn are better pass rushers lined up as DEs, and Gipson had to be taught how to be a 3-4 OLB when he came to the pros (so 4-3 DE was his natural position in the first place). We'd have to get rid of Hicks. Tonga is young enough that you'd keep him, see if he could succeed. The only way I see Goldman being part of the team next year is if Pace is still the GM, and I think Trevathan is simply too injury prone now to justify a roster spot. So...a lot of the problems confronting the Bears defense are the same, regardless of scheme. Which is a good place to be if you're actually making the switch. And I really hope they do. It's hard to say if any of the offensive minded HC candidates care enough about defensive scheme to insist on implementing one similar to the team they're currently on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Well...it's actually happening! Anybody else excited? Disgusted? Ambivalent? I think it's a great step forward. Don't have to rely on finding those unicorns anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Bears need a disruptive 3T in FA. Either Nichols or someone from another team. Apart from that the biggest need is CB. They need to get a starting Nickel and bring in competition to play boundary CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 56 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Bears need a disruptive 3T in FA. Either Nichols or someone from another team. Apart from that the biggest need is CB. They need to get a starting Nickel and bring in competition to play boundary CB. The biggest need is CB, followed by safety. They can (and most likely will) bring in some serviceable, but not spectacular, D linemen to make the scheme work initially. Then upgrade next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Well...it's actually happening! Anybody else excited? Disgusted? Ambivalent? I think it's a great step forward. Don't have to rely on finding those unicorns anymore... Indifferent. 3-4 or 4-3 isn't near as big a deal as it was 20 years ago. Every defense is basically a nickel defense and neither has a special requirement for rarity of resources for it to succeed. You can have mammoth DLs in either, or one gap penetrating DL in either. Just coach it up, hit the QB frequently, and I'll be good. lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The only player I'm a little curious as to his fit in a 4-3 is gonna be the UDFA Snowden we got last year. He's too lean to be a DE imo, but even last year I was pretty intrigued by the idea of him being a more traditional LB, rather than as a pass rusher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Epyon said: The only player I'm a little curious as to his fit in a 4-3 is gonna be the UDFA Snowden we got last year. He's too lean to be a DE imo, but even last year I was pretty intrigued by the idea of him being a more traditional LB, rather than as a pass rusher. He could possibly be a SLB in this defense similar to Roosevelt Colvin. Or they bulk him up and convert him to a situational WDE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Epyon said: The only player I'm a little curious as to his fit in a 4-3 is gonna be the UDFA Snowden we got last year. He's too lean to be a DE imo, but even last year I was pretty intrigued by the idea of him being a more traditional LB, rather than as a pass rusher. He seems like a misfit for Flus’ scheme to me - I always saw him as a more traditional 3-4 rush end. At 6’7” I think it’s more likely they add 10-20 lb to him to get him to about 260-265 and use him as a traditional 4-3 DE. There aren’t many if any traditional LB at his size, and the ones that are (like Leonard Floyd) have absolute freak athleticism which I don’t think Snowden possesses. He’s a UDFA anyway (priority or otherwise) so any expectations for him becoming a viable piece in the defense should be limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSLCF04 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 11:27 PM, Sugashane said: Indifferent. 3-4 or 4-3 isn't near as big a deal as it was 20 years ago. Every defense is basically a nickel defense and neither has a special requirement for rarity of resources for it to succeed. You can have mammoth DLs in either, or one gap penetrating DL in either. Just coach it up, hit the QB frequently, and I'll be good. lol The difference is in the linemen. You need unicorns to properly field a 3-4. A good 3-4 defense is essentially like an offensive line having two Pro Bowl worthy tackles...with your swing tackle being so good he'd start for most teams in the league. Fielding a 3-4 is simply not smart. The Bears defense will flourish, once it's out from under all the 3-4 nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: The difference is in the linemen. You need unicorns to properly field a 3-4. A good 3-4 defense is essentially like an offensive line having two Pro Bowl worthy tackles...with your swing tackle being so good he'd start for most teams in the league. Fielding a 3-4 is simply not smart. The Bears defense will flourish, once it's out from under all the 3-4 nonsense. I have to disagree completely. Goldman was a damn solid NT but as a DT he isn't special. You can get by with a few powerful guys that can two gap. That isn't too hard to find at all. If you have one that can also passrush (Hicks) then you're already in good shape. The biggest part of the 3-4 is having your EDGE standing when in base and keeping your two ILB clean. Lovie's Tampa 2 was a 4-3 required an elite 3T, two good DEs, and a unicorn of a MLB that could drop back and come up with incredible timing and reading ability. One could easily argue that was a far more demanding system to make elite than a 3-4 (proven by how much the defense dropped when a player like Briggs couldn't even fill Urlacher's shoes), which can be schemed to disguise coverage, varied by role, and so on. Regardless the bulk of the snaps are in nickel. I can't imagine calling Fangio's scheme not smart or nonsense. The defense will do better when it doesn't have a bottom 3 defensive backfield, which was the major issue I had with them prior to the season. That and not fielding the memories of DT and Goldman. lol. Fielding 2 CBs who should be depth at best for over half your snaps was a bigger issue than the 3-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, Sugashane said: I have to disagree completely. Goldman was a damn solid NT but as a DT he isn't special. You can get by with a few powerful guys that can two gap. That isn't too hard to find at all. If you have one that can also passrush (Hicks) then you're already in good shape. What happened to the Bears last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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