Draft Talk: Giants @ 1.5 & 1.7

[YogiBiz]

1 minute ago, y*so*blu said:

Any thoughts on Evan Neal if he's available at #5?

He’s probably going #1 but if he’s there at five you grab him. I was higher on Ikem earlier, but Neal’s potential and ability remind me to much of a more in control Brown Jr. who was one of my favorite tackle prospects in recent memory.  
 

If you want my quick thoughts on him: 

He’s a people mover. If he gets his hands on a defender, that guy is effectively out the play. Does well to reach his landmarks in pass protection, and that is achieved through precise footwork and timing seeing as he doesn’t posses elite lateral movement. Can at times overset, and that’s when his issues with lateral movement will trouble him. Really dominate in the run game, gets to the second level in a hurry and a surprise considering his size. His punch timing hit or miss, but that’ll be corrected over time. His lack of movement skills seem to limit him more on the right side as he plays more fluidly on the left (which is the side he will likely be taken to play with for the Jags). I don’t think he’ll be as successful on the Right side. 
 

 

We will probably go with Ikem and Jermaine Johnson. Which would be an elite haul, and easily give us a leg up on the rebuild. Take Ed Ingram from LSU in Round 2. Your O-Line is suddenly looking really talented. 

[y*so*blu]

1 hour ago, YogiBiz said:

He’s probably going #1 but if he’s there at five you grab him. I was higher on Ikem earlier, but Neal’s potential and ability remind me to much of a more in control Brown Jr. who was one of my favorite tackle prospects in recent memory.  
 

If you want my quick thoughts on him: 

He’s a people mover. If he gets his hands on a defender, that guy is effectively out the play. Does well to reach his landmarks in pass protection, and that is achieved through precise footwork and timing seeing as he doesn’t posses elite lateral movement. Can at times overset, and that’s when his issues with lateral movement will trouble him. Really dominate in the run game, gets to the second level in a hurry and a surprise considering his size. His punch timing hit or miss, but that’ll be corrected over time. His lack of movement skills seem to limit him more on the right side as he plays more fluidly on the left (which is the side he will likely be taken to play with for the Jags). I don’t think he’ll be as successful on the Right side. 
 

 

We will probably go with Ikem and Jermaine Johnson. Which would be an elite haul, and easily give us a leg up on the rebuild. Take Ed Ingram from LSU in Round 2. Your O-Line is suddenly looking really talented. 

Thanks for the writeup. There's also a good possibility of Kenyon Green being there at 5th and/or 7th, which I like because OG is probably the most urgent. We have at least one good tackle in Thomas, and center can safely be addressed later.

What do you think our biggest needs are? O-line goes without saying but man do we need a young TE who can block and catch. On defense, I think we're hurting at EDGE and LB. We just didn't get any pressure last year.

QB can wait until '23 IMO. I'd rather pick up a decent RB (Saquon already looks like a shell of his rookie self and is unlikely to stick around) and a nose tackle (d-line just isn't the same without a run stuffer like Tomlinson).

Edited February 8, 2022 by y*so*blu

[YogiBiz]

3 hours ago, y*so*blu said:

Thanks for the writeup. There's also a good possibility of Kenyon Green being there at 5th and/or 7th, which I like because OG is probably the most urgent. We have at least one good tackle in Thomas, and center can safely be addressed later.

What do you think our biggest needs are? O-line goes without saying but man do we need a young TE who can block and catch. On defense, I think we're hurting at EDGE and LB. We just didn't get any pressure last year.

QB can wait until '23 IMO. I'd rather pick up a decent RB (Saquon already looks like a shell of his rookie self and is unlikely to stick around) and a nose tackle (d-line just isn't the same without a run stuffer like Tomlinson).

My mock off-season has us going 

Ikem from NC State at 5 Jermaine Johnson from FSU at 7 Ed Ingram (OG from LSU) at 36 and in the third I grabbed George Pickens from UGA and Jeremey Ruckert from Ohio State. Round 4 the only player I felt comfortable taking in that mock simulator was Hassan Haskins to be the first piece replace rookie Saquon (which we will probably move towards a committee approach) and I think Haskins is a good early down runner with some potential as a third down guy. 
 

ive been a firm believer in our main issues lie on offense. Fixing that side even if it means shedding some salary on defense is a good idea to me. (Looking at Blake) 

[y*so*blu]

I traded down from #5 and did some other wheeling and dealing in my latest mock. Ended up with...

7. Kenyon Green, OG, Texas A&M

13. Derek Stingley Jr, CB, LSU

36. Drake Jackson, EDGE, USC

45. Isaiah Spiller, RB, Texas A&M

67. Lecitus Smith, OG, Virginia Tech

96. Jake Ferguson, TE, Wisconsin

138. Cameron Jurgens, OC, Nebraska

146. Leo Chenal, LB, Wisconsin

182. Nick Cross, S, Maryland

194. Julius Turner, DT, Rutgers

...And a 6th rounder in 2023.

Chenal is of particular interest to me. At 6'2, 255, he's built like a shot put and useful as a blitzer and a run-stopper. Jackson's versatility allows him to line up at DE or OLB, although his tackling has to improve. Spiller is a pass-catching RB with nice burst. Ferguson is a masterful blocker and red zone threat who can make tough catches.

I have no idea whether these guys are scheme fits or not, but it's an interesting lineup. 😅

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by y*so*blu

[minutemancl]

With the hiring of Martindale, I'm starting to think Stingley will be the pick at 5 if he is there. He values CBs way more than edge rushers because he feels that he can get to the QB with anyone. And CBs are still a super valuable position that coincides with Schoen's belief in positional value.

How would we feel about something like:

(1 Evan Neal 2 Aidan Hutchinson 3 Kyle Hamilton 4 Kayvon Thibodeux)

5. Derek Stingley

(6 Ikem Ekwonu)

7. Charles Cross

36. Zion Johnson

Honestly, I'd love to move down from 5 or 7 into the late teens/early 20s and take Trevor Penning as our RT while also picking up an additional 2nd round pick this year. I'd rather have Trevor Penning + an ILB like Chad Muma, an EDGE guy like Drake Jackson, or TE Trey Mcbride than just Charles Cross.

As for later on in the draft, I'm all in on taking a RB like James Cook or Rachad White in the 4th or 5th, and I'm also all in on taking that punter from San Diego State in the 5th or 6th. Not only would Araiza be an upgrade over Dixon, he'd be so, so much cheaper. A vet minimum punter will be bad, and they make twice as much as a 6th round rookie. Dixon is gone regardless for someone cheaper (we save just about 3 million by cutting him), but I feel improving and getting cheaper there would be huge. Look at what the Bills were able to do with Tyler Bass in 2020 and this year. They've got a great kicker for cheap (both monetary and draft investment wise) for 4 years.

[Giants4eva]

Well, for the longest time i had us going with a QB and then a lineman. But with Daboll and Shoens's committment they seem to be showing to Daniel Jones now, i dont see a QB happening in these 2 picks. 

5- OT Ikem Ekwonu / Miss State

The way i see it the Gmen are in absolute dire need of another tackle to help out the line. Ekwonu is a no brainer here. 

7- CB Derek Stingley / LSU 

Im basing this pick off the fact that Martindales defense was heavily reliant on a superstud CB and S to do what he wants to do up front. I would not be surprised here if its Stingley at all. Maybe even Kyle Hamilton. 

Im a bit disheartened because i wanted 2 stud olinemen to get taken by Gmen. But with Martindale coming in and also alot of talk of impending cap casualties (bradberry, ryan) i think were gonna be very thin in the corner area. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Giants4eva

[y*so*blu]

IMO one of our first two picks will definitely be CB or safety. I'm fine with that as long as the other is an o-lineman.

The following rounds will hopefully bring us another lineman, fresh blood at RB and TE, and maybe an upgrade at nose tackle. 

While I like Wink's confidence that he can get to the QB with anyone as long as the secondary's good, I'd like to have at least one solid prospect at EDGE or LB.

I don't know if I'd go as far as drafting a punter, but replacing Dixon is a priority.

Edited February 12, 2022 by y*so*blu

[minutemancl]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:45 PM, y*so*blu said:

IMO one of our first two picks will definitely be CB or safety. I'm fine with that as long as the other is an o-lineman.

The following rounds will hopefully bring us another lineman, fresh blood at RB and TE, and maybe an upgrade at nose tackle. 

While I like Wink's confidence that he can get to the QB with anyone as long as the secondary's good, I'd like to have at least one solid prospect at EDGE or LB.

I don't know if I'd go as far as drafting a punter, but replacing Dixon is a priority.

I love that Araiza kid, and if we were a better team with less holes, I'd be ok taking him as early at the 3rd. It is impossible to justify doing that with this roster though.

[minutemancl]

This mock draft is really interesting

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-mock-draft-seattle-seahawks-trade-russell-wilson-ole-miss-qb-matt-corral-malik-willis-pittsburgh-steelers

Thibs drops to 5 and we take him (great), but Neal and Ekwonu go in the top-4 then Cross gets taken at 6, leaving us without a viable top OT prospect at 7, where we take (arguably) CB1 in Sauce Gardner. On one hand, yes it is bad we did not address OL with 5 or 7, but on the other hand, we got very, very good prospects at 2 other positions of need. This feels almost like the worst case scenario, but even in this worst case scenario, it isn't that bad? It's interesting.

If it were to go like this, I'd be ok taking an OL with every other pick we have. Load up the roster for the preseason and let the rookies fight it out for starting spots.

[minutemancl]

I took a break from playing around with mock draft simulators for a while, and I started back up recently. With the way consensus boards are falling and the anticipation I have for certain players rising/falling after the combine, we risk a lot being too cute and trading back from one of our top 2 picks. The emphasis on teams drafting from 8-12 is going to be massively on the same positions we are targeting: OL, EDGE, and CB. There are only a few premier prospects at those positions (I count 8- Evan Neal, Ikem Ekwonu, Charles Cross, Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley, Aidan Hutchinson, Keyvon Thibodeux, and George Karlaftis). If we trade out of 5 or 7 and back, we need to do it assuming that we are not going to have a chance at any of those players at our new draft position; we would need to be ok settling for a 2nd or 3rd tier player at one of those major positions of need OR need to be ok drafting a WR or off-ball LB. Meanwhile, at 5 and 7, we are guaranteed 2 of those premier position players and will more than likely have our choice of them. I know we need a lot of help across the roster, but I'd rather hit on those 2 picks right now than trade back in most cases right now.

The one case I'd be fully onboard with trading back is something very similar to Pittsburgh moving from 20 to 5 for a QB, giving us a 1st next year in return plus more.

[minutemancl]

I had a nightmare a few nights ago that the Giants traded back from 5 for horrible value then drafted Jack Coan from Notre Dame at 7 and I almost cried.

[YogiBiz]

 
A Few notes:

The trade with Cleveland netted us a 1st 2nd and 1st next year. They really wanted Jordan Davis? We take those. 

Ikem is my RT1 cause I think Neal is limited to Lt snaps. I’ve said a ton about him, beast of a dude with easy movement skills. Will become one of the leagues better bookends with Thomas before the latter’s contract expires  

Andrew Booth Jr is CB1 for me. Over Sauce and DSJ. Best of the three in man coverage and athleticism wise he’s above the other two head and shoulders. Everything you want in an Alpha Corner down to the attitude.

Kingsley is one of my top EDGE guys in the draft and I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes top 25. His only weakness is his “lack” of bend, although he has plenty and can turn the corner pretty well. Adding more counters to his toolbox is a must but he’s got the base athleticism and hand placement/timing to inspire a high level starter. Really can dominate with power. Good run defender when he can see it but could stand to diagnose plays better. 
 

Ingram is a scheme versatile OG(spot Tackle snaps) player. Thanks to his really good footwork and hand usage, Ingram dominates game in and and game out. Rarely struggling. Instant starter. 
 

Ive been stuck between Ruckert and Wydermyer for months as a better prospect. In a poor TE class I think their fight for TE3 is close to finished. I gave the nod to Jalen he’s got superior hands, is the better route runner and is a flat out better athlete. Ruckert is a better blocker and better at getting open against zones (might be more attributed to who he has around him). 

Alec Pierce was WR1 for Desmond Ridder and the Bearcats and dominated the mid-to-deep areas of the field. Really good hands, good speed and quickness as well as a being a nuanced route runner. The depth of this class will push back a lot of talented receivers. 
 

Haskins is an elite Thunder type of running back  as well as having the skills to and potential to be a three down runner. He’s really good between the tackles and has the speed to really pull away. Wasn’t used in the passing game cause Michigan had better and options. Nearly always. His tape did show a quality blocker and pass catcher, but not a top option out of the backfield. Doesn’t have enough short area quickness to have touches manufactured in this regard, but can make something happen on broken plays or dump offs.

Luketa is a poor mans Van Noy. Not as dynamic of an edge rusher in terms of raw quickness, but a guy who can get reps at both Linebacker and EDGE and hold the line. More of a special teams guy. 
 

DeAngelo Malone is the really raw really athletic edge guy. Who will need at least three years of development before he can contribute and hopefully be a solid rotational guy. His tools scream more but he’s just not a high in player and not one that is technically refined. 
 

Reed is a Special Teams guy that has the ability to develop into a low end box safety. Will be a special teams captain early. Infectious tackler and has fire for days. 

 

[y*so*blu]

@YogiBizOne of the better mocks I've seen. Gets us Ekwonu and his violent punch as well as a top corner, but I also like the choice of Alec Pierce.

Look at how he makes plays for his QB Desmond Ridder while unintentionally showing the guy's limitations. Often he has to slow down noticeably on routes because Ridder can't hit him in stride, allowing defenders to overtake him. Even in those situations he hangs tough to make contested catches from multiple angles.

At 2:44 for example, Ridder's throw is not on point (despite what the announcer says); the defender gets a hand on it and Pierce wrestles the ball away from him while going down.

I don't want him getting away, especially to a division rival. Would much rather see him play for the good guys. 😇

Edited February 19, 2022 by y*so*blu

[Go_Giants]

5 hours ago, YogiBiz said:

 
A Few notes:

The trade with Cleveland netted us a 1st 2nd and 1st next year. They really wanted Jordan Davis? We take those. 

Ikem is my RT1 cause I think Neal is limited to Lt snaps. I’ve said a ton about him, beast of a dude with easy movement skills. Will become one of the leagues better bookends with Thomas before the latter’s contract expires  

Andrew Booth Jr is CB1 for me. Over Sauce and DSJ. Best of the three in man coverage and athleticism wise he’s above the other two head and shoulders. Everything you want in an Alpha Corner down to the attitude.

Kingsley is one of my top EDGE guys in the draft and I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes top 25. His only weakness is his “lack” of bend, although he has plenty and can turn the corner pretty well. Adding more counters to his toolbox is a must but he’s got the base athleticism and hand placement/timing to inspire a high level starter. Really can dominate with power. Good run defender when he can see it but could stand to diagnose plays better. 
 

Ingram is a scheme versatile OG(spot Tackle snaps) player. Thanks to his really good footwork and hand usage, Ingram dominates game in and and game out. Rarely struggling. Instant starter. 
 

Ive been stuck between Ruckert and Wydermyer for months as a better prospect. In a poor TE class I think their fight for TE3 is close to finished. I gave the nod to Jalen he’s got superior hands, is the better route runner and is a flat out better athlete. Ruckert is a better blocker and better at getting open against zones (might be more attributed to who he has around him). 

Alec Pierce was WR1 for Desmond Ridder and the Bearcats and dominated the mid-to-deep areas of the field. Really good hands, good speed and quickness as well as a being a nuanced route runner. The depth of this class will push back a lot of talented receivers. 
 

Haskins is an elite Thunder type of running back  as well as having the skills to and potential to be a three down runner. He’s really good between the tackles and has the speed to really pull away. Wasn’t used in the passing game cause Michigan had better and options. Nearly always. His tape did show a quality blocker and pass catcher, but not a top option out of the backfield. Doesn’t have enough short area quickness to have touches manufactured in this regard, but can make something happen on broken plays or dump offs.

Luketa is a poor mans Van Noy. Not as dynamic of an edge rusher in terms of raw quickness, but a guy who can get reps at both Linebacker and EDGE and hold the line. More of a special teams guy. 
 

DeAngelo Malone is the really raw really athletic edge guy. Who will need at least three years of development before he can contribute and hopefully be a solid rotational guy. His tools scream more but he’s just not a high in player and not one that is technically refined. 
 

Reed is a Special Teams guy that has the ability to develop into a low end box safety. Will be a special teams captain early. Infectious tackler and has fire for days. 

 

You think we are going to be okay with drafting just two offensive linemen,  you believe in Shane Lemieux as a starter? We not only need starters for the offensive line we also need backups. I think we need come away with at least three offensive linemen from this draft if we are to finally fix the o-line.

[YogiBiz]

9 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

You think we are going to be okay with drafting just two offensive linemen,  you believe in Shane Lemieux as a starter? We not only need starters for the offensive line we also need backups. I think we need come away with at least three offensive linemen from this draft if we are to finally fix the o-line.

I think we are going to be cutting a lot more guys than people think. Especially with Bradberry and Martinez. We save around 20M on just those two. Not to mention restructures on other deals, the maybe Barkley move. 
 

This team has an Avenue to around 40M in cap space. With the draft assets in place you could convince me is moving off some high priced veteran defenders and offensive guys (Shepard and Barkley). That Avenue also doesn’t include a Williams restructure. 
 

Cutting Bradberry, Martinez, Shepard, Dixon, Booker, Rudolph, and restructuring Jackson would get us ~37M just over 40M if Gates retires. Our cap situation isn’t the worst. It just looks bad cause we are going to have to eat some dead money. We could effectively go after Austin Corbett Connor Williams or James Daniels to man the Guard position or we could go Brian Allen Ben Jones or Matt Paradis for the Center spot. I could see us going hard after one of the Rams guys. Cause they literally can’t pay everyone this off-season. 

My kinda realistic dream scenario for the Line next season is Thomas-Williams-Allen-Ingram-Ekwonu
 

Edited February 19, 2022 by YogiBiz