MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: Hunter = Top 15 WR Waller = Top 7 TE Jacobs Top 10 RB Carlson = Top 2 Kicker Cole = Best Punter in NFL Elite Pass Rushers We don’t have the best cast but we don’t an awful cast either. A better O-line makes Jacobs better. This was a team that was similar to 2016. Played a lot of 1 score games. We were carried by our elite kicking unit. Carr excels between the 20 and the 20. Struggles in the RZ and still is the worst fumbling QB in the NFL Bringing back Carr isn’t a slam dunk choice. We will have to pay top market money to keep him which would limit our spending power. I believe we have gone as far as Carr can take us. 1st round exit Keep trying to push this weak *** narrative. Renfrow is not a top 15 receiver don’t be delusional. We’re not gonna pay top of the market. Watch. No one is saying pay carr 40-45 mil. Rz struggles mainly have to do with play calling and horrendous run blocking. We need a new staff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: You are flat out wrong. All three of those guys are saddled with poor QB play and they face teams opposing #1 CB's. Put Renfrow on the outside, match him up with a teams #1 CB and saddle him with a bum like Tua and you will see exactly what I mean by limited. Once again no GM in the NFL would take Renfrow over any of the WR's I mentioned. Flat out wrong? Lmao. Renfrow has an elite skill set in the NFL. Improved production every year. He’s an Elite Slot WR with elite production. That’s what his production has shown this so far. The ceiling on his play isn’t reached yet. Stop discrediting our players by adding to the forever narrative that Carr doesn’t have a support cast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Flat out wrong? Lmao. Renfrow has an elite skill set in the NFL. Improved production every year. He’s an Elite Slot WR with elite production. That’s what his production has shown this so far. The ceiling on his play isn’t reached yet. Stop discrediting our players by adding to the forever narrative that Carr doesn’t have a support cast You overuse the word elite. He's not elite. And quite frankly, hyperbole like this just makes your argument look bad. There are a handful of elite players at the WR position. They are all future hall of famers. Renfrow is a very good slot receiver. He was the reason we won some games down the stretch. He was a steal where he was taken. But he's not elite. And he isn't a reason to not upgrade the WR group with Ruggs now ready to do 20 to life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Renfrow is a good player, would be better with a WR1 but he isn't close to elite. Ridiculous comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: You overuse the word elite. He's not elite. And quite frankly, hyperbole like this just makes your argument look bad. There are a handful of elite players at the WR position. They are all future hall of famers. Renfrow is a very good slot receiver. He was the reason we won some games down the stretch. He was a steal where he was taken. But he's not elite. And he isn't a reason to not upgrade the WR group with Ruggs now ready to do 20 to life. People throw the world elite around like it means nothing. It's laughable. We have a bottom 3 WR corp in the NFL. Our two outside WR's are backup on 95 percent of NFL rosters. That is a fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, Jraider91 said: Renfrow is a good player, would be better with a WR1 but he isn't close to elite. Ridiculous comment. Exactly, it's straight up nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said: People throw the world elite around like it means nothing. It's laughable. We have a bottom 3 WR corp in the NFL. Our two outside WR's are backup on 95 percent of NFL rosters. That is a fact! Zay stepped up in the last 3 or 4 games so I'll say more like bottom 5-10, but agree we can't have edwards and zay as our outside starters next year. Need a big FA or 1st/2nd round rookie who can step in and make an immediate impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Zay stepped up in the last 3 or 4 games so I'll say more like bottom 5-10, but agree we can't have edwards and zay as our outside starters next year. Need a big FA or 1st/2nd round rookie who can step in and make an immediate impact. Zay stepped up but the guy is a 4th WR on most teams. He is a FA this offseason and if he wants more than 4 million he can take a hike. We need to fully revamp the WR corp. I hate to speculate on draft picks as there are many factors that go into determining who we should take with so many holes to fill. WR is clearly a massive need and I have been very vocal for years about how terrible WR value is at the top of the 1st round but picking in the mid 20's with Williams potentially still on the board due of his ACL tear may be an opportunity too good to pass up. I will say this, if Williams is on the board at 22 he needs to strongly be considered with the pick. Edited January 16, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Zay stepped up but the guy is a 4th WR on most teams. He is a FA this offseason and if he wants more than 4 million he can take a hike. We need to fully revamp the WR corp. I hate to speculate on draft picks as there are many factors that go into determining who we should take with so many holes to fill. WR is clearly a massive need and I have been very vocal for years about how terrible WR value is at the top of the 1st round but picking in the mid 20's with Williams potentially still on the board due of his ACL tear may be an opportunity too good to pass up. I will say this if Williams is on the board at 22 he needs to strongly be considered with the pick. An elite WR is as good as any none QB position anywhere in the draft, it is a gamechanging position. There was a reason Chase vs Sewell wasn't even a debate to anyone who had done the numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: An elite WR is as good as any none QB position anywhere in the draft, it is a gamechanging position. There was a reason Chase vs Sewell wasn't even a debate to anyone who had done the numbers. Exactly. Not many positions impact the game like a year 1 impact WR. And not many positions are as translatable to the pro game as WR's. I think it's our best option for a 1st round pick. Plus then we don't have to overpay a mediocre option on the market 10-15+ for middling production. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Exactly. Not many positions impact the game like a year 1 impact WR. And not many positions are as translatable to the pro game as WR's. I think it's our best option for a 1st round pick. Plus then we don't have to overpay a mediocre option on the market 10-15+ for middling production. Yep, the way to think about positions is what do they do vs an average/replacement level player. An elite LT impacts a few more plays per game than an average one, which is really important but an elite WR makes a few game changing plays per game than an average one which is far more important. Now if you don't even have an average LT and have a good WR then obviously picking the latter makes more sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: An elite WR is as good as any none QB position anywhere in the draft, it is a gamechanging position. There was a reason Chase vs Sewell wasn't even a debate to anyone who had done the numbers. I would put an elite WR behind and elite DE, 3T and LT. CB and WR are close but and I agree it is a game changing position My stance has been look how terrible the value for top 20 draft pick WR's has been over the last decade and how many have turned out to be good value? Very few as there has been a lot of fools gold WR's taken within the top 20 picks. WR value can be had later on unless you have a sure fire elite stud( Julio, Megatron) sitting on the board. Edited January 16, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: Yep, the way to think about positions is what do they do vs an average/replacement level player. An elite LT impacts a few more plays per game than an average one, which is really important but an elite WR makes a few game changing plays per game than an average one which is far more important. Now if you don't even have an average LT and have a good WR then obviously picking the latter makes more sense. I disagree with this. An elite LT impacts many plays a game, the impact made might not be as tangable as say a catch for a WR but any QB who has a sieve at LT knows how much blindside pressure can disrupt nearly every passing down. Play Pleatherwhiff at LT and match him up against Danielle Hunter then tell me little impact having an elite LT makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I would put an elite WR behind and elite DE, 3T and LT. CB and WR are close but and I agree it is a game changing position My stance has been look how terrible the value for top 20 draft pick WR's has been over the last decade and how many have turned out to be good value? Very few as there has been a lot of fools gold WR's taken within the top 20 picks. WR value can be had later on unless you have a sure fire elite stud( Julio, Megatron) sitting on the board. There have been a lot of offensive line busts though. It's underrated. And I disagree, college WR's every year are trending toward being more pro ready. The bust rate is going down for WR's. Especially because we'll be picking in the early 20s. We're not spending a top 5-10 pick on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Just now, Frankie2Gunz said: I disagree with this. An elite LT impacts many plays a game, the impact made might not be as tangable as say a catch for a WR but any QB who has a sieve at LT knows how much blindside pressure can disrupt nearly every passing down. Play Pleatherwhiff at LT and match him up against Danielle Hunter then tell me little impact having an elite LT makes. Most of OL play is about not having a weak link. Just like CB. Don't get me wrong, it's very hard to find a good LT. Harder than finding a good WR. But WR definitely has a huge impact on the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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