Giants Fire Joe Judge

[w4rrior723]

I liked Judge's mindset. However, his inexperience as a HC showed too often. I think he has the makings of a great HC one day. But needs some years as an NFL OC or college HC first. The NFL is too good to learn to be a HC on the fly.

Judge made his fair share of mistakes, but I think Gettleman was more responsible for the state of the team. However, I'm fine with cleaning house. You'll want your GM to select his guys top down, anyway. Hopefully whoever they bring in can finally right the ship.

We'll see what this all means for Jones' future. Poor kid. Such a good guy and has some potential. But being drafted here might've ruined his career.

[minutemancl]

2 hours ago, ny92mike said:

Didn't you make a thread about the state of our offensive line?  We'll have Thomas as a true starter...most of the other contracts are dead now and the ones we do have I wish their contracts were expired.

We don't have much money so drafting two legit starters for the line would make Daniel Jones a better quarterback, no?

We need to draft OL, yes. We can also draft a QB at some point, whether that be at 5, 7, 37, or 146. Find a guy whose traits you like and fits the needs of the new offensive system and take him. 

Addressing the OL and improving at QB are NOT opposing ideologies. The Giants should be looking to do both during this draft.

[ny92mike]

58 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

We need to draft OL, yes. We can also draft a QB at some point, whether that be at 5, 7, 37, or 146. Find a guy whose traits you like and fits the needs of the new offensive system and take him. 

Addressing the OL and improving at QB are NOT opposing ideologies. The Giants should be looking to do both during this draft.

I'm all for drafting a QB in the later rounds.  Id just be upset if they spend high picks.  Id much rather spend this season putting out all the fires and provide a better offensive line to give Jones a proper evaluation before canning him.  If that evaluation doesn't fare well for Jones then look to draft high next season.

A good o line.  Jones could drive that bus.  

Provide him time in the pocket his game gets better.  We all remember his rookie season he wasn't bad when the deep ball was an option.  

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, ny92mike said:

I'm all for drafting a QB in the later rounds.  Id just be upset if they spend high picks.  Id much rather spend this season putting out all the fires and provide a better offensive line to give Jones a proper evaluation before canning him.  If that evaluation doesn't fare well for Jones then look to draft high next season.

A good o line.  Jones could drive that bus.  

Provide him time in the pocket his game gets better.  We all remember his rookie season he wasn't bad when the deep ball was an option.  

New OC, new OL, won’t be cleared for contact until August (maybe?). Last year of contract. There are way to many factors to be able to give him a proper evaluation. I’m not in flavor of drafting a QB high, but if there is someone they love, you take him.  

[ny92mike]

12 minutes ago, Acgott said:

New OC, new OL, won’t be cleared for contact until August (maybe?). Last year of contract. There are way to many factors to be able to give him a proper evaluation. I’m not in flavor of drafting a QB high, but if there is someone they love, you take him.  

Dammit...you're right.  I forget the injury that pretty much sealed it for him...you are correct.  

But only if they spend what little they have on free agents to fix the line.  It would be pointless to draft a quarterback to only put him in the same situation as our current starter.  Running for his life.  I'm done watching that **** is what I'm saying.

If this next GM that comes in.  If his major focus isn't on fixing our trenches.  Id be happy if we went O/D with these first two picks and then coming back again with either or again.  That has been our biggest issues for years now and we could really fix things with draft.  Consider it a retirement gift.

Thing is I haven't scouted any of these players yet but what I hear is "if you need a franchise quarterback, now is not the year to draft one".  

Is there a quarterback in this draft thats worth our top pick?  Any of these college kids stand out to you?

Lets not reach again.

[ny92mike]

so yeah if there is another Josh Allen in this years draft...yes pick him up.  If not and they draft one anyway.... Not so great.

[YogiBiz]

14 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Any of the above. Improving at QB is the fastest way to improve your team. However we do it, I'm ok with. 

Stop. It doesn’t matter who we put back there when our O-Line is playing 1 starter and 2 3rd stringers and 2 PS guys. 
 

i also agree with that rationale, but we aren’t ready for a new QB. 
 

wait till next year to get Young or Jurkovec 

[minutemancl]

6 hours ago, ny92mike said:

Is there a quarterback in this draft thats worth our top pick?  Any of these college kids stand out to you?

These are the real questions to be asking. Kudos.

According to the correct process, a QB should be drafted relatively high (within the first 2 rounds) this year. The real questions are which ones do you like and where can you get them.

I was previously high on Corrall, Ridder, and Pickett. That has changed a bit for me. I'm more down on Corrall, higher on Howell, and higher on Willis now. If I had to rank them, it'd be like this:

1. Ridder 2a. Pickett 2b. Howell 4. Willis 5. Corrall

I have not watched Carson Strong or Bailey Zappe. 

There are no Trevor Lawrences in this year's draft. If there were, there would be teams clamoring to trade up to 1 or 2 to grab him. Instead, you've got to like some traits that these kids exhibit, bet on those traits and yourself for how you can develop those traits, and see what you can do.

I've been playing around with a lot of mock draft scenarios, but unfortunately, none of them have updated team needs, so they're all degrees of inaccurate. That said, you're looking at the first guy going relatively early, no later than top 11, then dominos falling after that. If you wait until the end of round 1, you're not going to have your choice (I'd expect 3 are gone by pick 30). If the Giants were to find a trade partner in the mid teens, I still think they'd be picking through leftovers (the top guy is probably gone). If you are sold specifically on one of these kids, take your favorite at 5, honestly. Before the Panthers pick at 6.

I had no problems with the process of taking Daniel Jones at 6 a few years ago. I had a problem with the player. As a prospect, all of those top 5 guys I mentioned are better prospects than DJ. Kenny Pickett is actually almost strictly a better version of Daniel Jones to me.

As for if I am sold on one of those guys at 5, no. I have them ranked all really closely. I'd be fine, personally, waiting until the end of the first, and if one of those guys are available, I'd trade back up into the first from 37 to get him. That's where I am at right now.

[minutemancl]

13 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

Stop. It doesn’t matter who we put back there when our O-Line is playing 1 starter and 2 3rd stringers and 2 PS guys. 
 

i also agree with that rationale, but we aren’t ready for a new QB. 
 

wait till next year to get Young or Jurkovec 

I don't want to waste a year of evaluation. We (hopefully) won't be putting any QB behind a line composed of those guys, because the new GM should be addressing that. And I'll tell you what, it doesn't matter how good those rookies are, filling 4/5 spots along the OL with rookies when you aren't picking 1, 2, 3, and 4 in the first round is a bad, bad idea.

Why don't we take a guy this year, evaluate him, and if he isn't what we are looking for, get one of those guys next year anyway?

Josh Rosen was absolutely awful his rookie year. The Cardinals did their evaluation, traded him for a 2nd round pick and change, and moved on to a QB who hit. We can absolutely do the same.

We need a thread specifically for QB talk I think.

[YogiBiz]

9 hours ago, minutemancl said:

We need to draft OL, yes. We can also draft a QB at some point, whether that be at 5, 7, 37, or 146. Find a guy whose traits you like and fits the needs of the new offensive system and take him. 

Addressing the OL and improving at QB are NOT opposing ideologies. The Giants should be looking to do both during this draft.

You’re the only one who brought it up. We should just wait until after Jones fourth year and get a free stop gap for the year (be bad) and draft one of the three guys next year. (Although if Pickett falls to 7 it’s a tough pass only if Linderbaum is on the board). The top 3 EDGe guys are going in the top 4. 
 

[YogiBiz]

12 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

These are the real questions to be asking. Kudos.

According to the correct process, a QB should be drafted relatively high (within the first 2 rounds) this year. The real questions are which ones do you like and where can you get them.

I was previously high on Corrall, Ridder, and Pickett. That has changed a bit for me. I'm more down on Corrall, higher on Howell, and higher on Willis now. If I had to rank them, it'd be like this:

1. Ridder 2a. Pickett 2b. Howell 4. Willis 5. Corrall

I have not watched Carson Strong or Bailey Zappe. 

There are no Trevor Lawrences in this year's draft. If there were, there would be teams clamoring to trade up to 1 or 2 to grab him. Instead, you've got to like some traits that these kids exhibit, bet on those traits and yourself for how you can develop those traits, and see what you can do.

I've been playing around with a lot of mock draft scenarios, but unfortunately, none of them have updated team needs, so they're all degrees of inaccurate. That said, you're looking at the first guy going relatively early, no later than top 11, then dominos falling after that. If you wait until the end of round 1, you're not going to have your choice (I'd expect 3 are gone by pick 30). If the Giants were to find a trade partner in the mid teens, I still think they'd be picking through leftovers (the top guy is probably gone). If you are sold specifically on one of these kids, take your favorite at 5, honestly. Before the Panthers pick at 6.

I had no problems with the process of taking Daniel Jones at 6 a few years ago. I had a problem with the player. As a prospect, all of those top 5 guys I mentioned are better prospects than DJ. Kenny Pickett is actually almost strictly a better version of Daniel Jones to me.

As for if I am sold on one of those guys at 5, no. I have them ranked all really closely. I'd be fine, personally, waiting until the end of the first, and if one of those guys are available, I'd trade back up into the first from 37 to get him. That's where I am at right now.

I really like Riddler. But his processing speed and the lack of consistency when it comes to throwing guys open has really been the main issue with him for me. 
 

Kenny has a good as arm as Riddler and Pickett is just way better between the ears imo. 

[Giants4eva]

This was such a big move on so many levels. Probably the biggest level being that Mara and Tisch both are cleaning house. This is unlike something ive ever seen. They are saying they dont like the direction of the team and what were doing here isnt working. The fact they gonna reach outside the organization is monumental. I hope this is a beginning of a new era. With us coming up to the current times of the league. 

[minutemancl]

31 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

I really like Riddler. But his processing speed and the lack of consistency when it comes to throwing guys open has really been the main issue with him for me. 
 

Kenny has a good as arm as Riddler and Pickett is just way better between the ears imo. 

I haven't read any scouting reports on any of these QBs; my opinion is drawn solely from watching pieces of live broadcast games of theirs and for a few of these guys (Pickett, Ridder, Howell), going back and watching cut ups of every snap from one game each of theirs (Pickett vs Clemson, I can't recall the game I watched Ridder play, but it wasn't vs Alabama, and Howell vs FSU). I say that to preface my opinion that I feel like Ridder's post snap processing is very impressive and one of his plus traits. 

[GMENNATION]

No on drafting a QB. It's not even about Daniel Jones. This team is going to get worse before it gets better. We haven't bottomed out yet. The only resources we have this year to improve the roster is our draft picks since we have no money. All the high picks need to go to improving the OL and pass rush. The rest need to improve the roster as a whole. Drafting a QB late is a waste of a pick. You're significantly more likely to draft Kyle Lauletta than Russell Wilson. 

Of course you can only go as far as your QB takes you and if they do absolutely love Pickett or Corral I guess I can't fault them for not missing the opportunity but you have to remember that the 1st two years of those guys' careers are going to have a terrible roster and there's no guarantee it will get better after that. Improve the roster this year, start your QB search next. 

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, GMENNATION said:

No on drafting a QB. It's not even about Daniel Jones. This team is going to get worse before it gets better. We haven't bottomed out yet. The only resources we have this year to improve the roster is our draft picks since we have no money. All the high picks need to go to improving the OL and pass rush. The rest need to improve the roster as a whole. Drafting a QB late is a waste of a pick. You're significantly more likely to draft Kyle Lauletta than Russell Wilson. 

Of course you can only go as far as your QB takes you and if they do absolutely love Pickett or Corral I guess I can't fault them for not missing the opportunity but you have to remember that the 1st two years of those guys' careers are going to have a terrible roster and there's no guarantee it will get better after that. Improve the roster this year, start your QB search next. 

You contradicted yourself there. You make moves to improve the team, but not all of them pan out. What happens if you make moves to improve the roster, while specifically excluding QB, and never actually do because you miss? You're missing out on lottery tickets for no reason.

As far as the Lauletta/Russ comment, you are definitely correct. However, if you do happen to hit on a mid round pick and that guy does turn into a franchise QB, you just hit the jackpot. That is the single biggest improvement to a team you can possibly make. Look at how teams who hit on QBs in the mid to late rounds (Seahawks, Patriots, Cowboys) were able to immediately and efficiently build around them and create contenders. With the bust rate of mid round picks overall, I'd rather take a chance every year at winning the lottery. Goes without saying, but if you get to round 3 and your evaluations tell you none of the remaining QBs have any redeemable traits and will never turn into anything, obviously you pass. But if there is a chance, I'd take it.