2022 Offseason and FA Talk

[xrade]

11 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

Zach Wilson deserves the types of elite weapons that both of Patrick Mahomes

Outside of Kelce and Hill, what elite weapons does KC have?  Mahomes makes the rest of those guys look good, not the other way around.

[Dr.O]

10 minutes ago, xrade said:

Outside of Kelce and Hill, what elite weapons does KC have?  Mahomes makes the rest of those guys look good, not the other way around.

Yeah KC is the clear cut example on how a scheme and a single player can elevate lesser players. Outside of those 2 they don’t really have anyone that really scares you

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

1 minute ago, xrade said:

Outside of Kelce and Hill, what elite weapons does KC have?  Mahomes makes the rest of those guys look good, not the other way around.

(You're forgetting Sammy Watkins who just recently left KC and who was absolutely awesome for Patrick Mahomes).

How can you say that about Travis Kelce?

Travis Kelce during his first 4 years as a starter in KC (2014-2017) was already a 3x Pro Bowler and an NFL ALL-PRO TE before Patrick Mahomes even ever took his 1st career snap as a Chief (2018). Travis Kelce doesn't need Patrick Mahomes to be greatness dude.

And you're wrong about Tyreek Hill too.

Because in 2016 and 2017 as a Rookie and 2nd year speed demon Tyreek Hill (without Patrick Mahomes) was already a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro and went off for and combined for 136 catches, 1,776 receiving yards and 13 TDs during his first two years and during his 2nd year alone he put up 75 catches, 1,183 receiving yards and 7 TDs (and all before Patrick Mahomes ever took his first KC career snap). Tyreek Hill doesn't need Patrick Mahomes to be a 🐆 man. 

Fans seem to Forget that before Patrick Mahomes even ever started in 2018 that Andy Reid and his KC Chiefs (before Patrick Mahomes) had already went 11-5 in 2013 (playoffs), 9-7 in 2014, 11-5 in 2015 (playoffs), 12-4 in 2016 (playoffs) and 10-6 in 2017 (Playoffs).

KC was already a proven winner without and before Patrick Mahomes because throughout the previous 5 years before Patrick Mahomes took his first career snap? Patrick Mahomes got drafted into a team with 4 Postseason Playoff appearances and 5 consecutive winning seasons; Patrick Mahomes didn't turn KC into a winner; Patrick Mahomes was drafted into a winner.

PS: it is the other way around. 

Patrick Mahomes is only 3-2 All-Time without Tyreek Hill and Patrick Mahomes is only 1-1 All-Time without Travis Kelce (only 4-3 overall without them both).

✓ Patrick Mahomes isn't Patrick Mahomes without both of KCs Offensive Weapons + Andy Reid because Andy Reid also took Philadelphia to 4 consecutive NFC Championship Games too. 

[jetjuice]

11 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

There’s 0 chance we invest that much into WR. We need to get1 starting WR. Not an average FA or a 3rd rounder or later. But a premium FA or trade or one of our picks beside at 4 in the 1st 2 rounds

Take Corey Davis out of the equation and is he really that off-base? Davis is probably not on our roster this time next year.

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

Outside of Kelce and Hill, what elite weapons does KC have?  Mahomes makes the rest of those guys look good, not the other way around.

Mecole Hardman. We all wanted him and KC chose him. Not a 1k guy bc 3 guys just aren’t going to do that in 1 offense. But you put him on alot if teams and he’s a legit weapon. He’s pretty much Elijah Moore… just a 3rd option for them.

[Bobby816]

24 minutes ago, jetjuice said:

Take Corey Davis out of the equation and is he really that off-base? Davis is probably not on our roster this time next year.

Why take Corey Davis out though. He’s a talented WR. He got injured last year and played only 1/2 season. You double his stats and he’s a 1k 8td guy for us. Oh and he’s still only 27, so he has several good years ahead of him. You don’t get rid of talented WRs in hopes that a rookie can take his spot. As @KingOfNewYorksaid… in an ideal world, Mims can groom under Davis. If you read between the lines in both JD and Salehs press conference… Mims is going nowhere and we truly think WRs need 2-3 years to develop. So they might not be expecting much out of him until this year and even next season. Saleh himself used Deebo as an example as to it take me some guys a few years.

[jetjuice]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Why take Corey Davis out though. He’s a talented WR. He got injured last year and played only 1/2 season. You double his stats and he’s a 1k 8td guy for us. Oh and he’s still only 27, so he has several good years ahead of him. You don’t get rid of talented WRs in hopes that a rookie can take his spot. As @KingOfNewYorksaid… in an ideal world, Mims can groom under Davis. If you read between the lines in both JD and Salehs press conference… Mims is going nowhere and we truly think WRs need 2-3 years to develop. So they might not be expecting much out of him until this year and even next season. Saleh himself used Deebo as an example as to it take me some guys a few years.

I think you guys are overly optimistic. Davis is good but probably close to his peak and has not been able to consistently stay healthy or even crack a 1,000 yard season. Not only is he cuttable, but could be tradeable too, and will be needing an extension or he walks & we get a comp pick and are back to square one. Mims is going into year 3 and has shown next to nothing so far, I can't count on him in a situation where he's clearly in the doghouse for some mysterious reason.

You look at it as you don't get rid of talented players for rookies. I look at it as who's the better 4-5 year play between Davis and Burks. The answer is likely Burks from day 1. And it wouldn't just be a rookie, it could be in the form of a trade for a guy like Calvin Ridley, who is clearly better than Davis. 

Have we all gotten so used to mediocre receiving play that we are ok with our #1 receiver putting up <1000 yards? Davis has never done that once. 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, jetjuice said:

I think you guys are overly optimistic. Davis is good but probably close to his peak and has not been able to consistently stay healthy or even crack a 1,000 yard season. Not only is he cuttable, but could be tradeable too, and will be needing an extension or he walks & we get a comp pick and are back to square one. Mims is going into year 3 and has shown next to nothing so far, I can't count on him in a situation where he's clearly in the doghouse for some mysterious reason.

You look at it as you don't get rid of talented players for rookies. I look at it as who's the better 4-5 year play between Davis and Burks. The answer is likely Burks from day 1. And it wouldn't just be a rookie, it could be in the form of a trade for a guy like Calvin Ridley, who is clearly better than Davis. 

Have we all gotten so used to mediocre receiving play that we are ok with our #1 receiver putting up <1000 yards? Davis has never done that once. 

His health is a concern. But him as a player isn’t. He’s not a big time #1… but if we can have 3 #2s

[JetsandI]

Corey Davis won't be cut by Jets anytime. 

[Bobby816]

22 minutes ago, JetsandI said:

Corey Davis won't be cut by Jets anytime. 

Exactly. He got injured and fans are done with him. He’s still someone that’s going to be relied on. And as of now is our top RZ target. I expect a good season from him and Moore. But they have to stay healthy. 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

(You're forgetting Sammy Watkins who just recently left KC and who was absolutely awesome for Patrick Mahomes).

How can you say that about Travis Kelce?

Travis Kelce during his first 4 years as a starter in KC (2014-2017) was already a 3x Pro Bowler and an NFL ALL-PRO TE before Patrick Mahomes even ever took his 1st career snap as a Chief (2018). Travis Kelce doesn't need Patrick Mahomes to be greatness dude.

And you're wrong about Tyreek Hill too.

Because in 2016 and 2017 as a Rookie and 2nd year speed demon Tyreek Hill (without Patrick Mahomes) was already a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro and went off for and combined for 136 catches, 1,776 receiving yards and 13 TDs during his first two years and during his 2nd year alone he put up 75 catches, 1,183 receiving yards and 7 TDs (and all before Patrick Mahomes ever took his first KC career snap). Tyreek Hill doesn't need Patrick Mahomes to be a 🐆 man. 

Fans seem to Forget that before Patrick Mahomes even ever started in 2018 that Andy Reid and his KC Chiefs (before Patrick Mahomes) had already went 11-5 in 2013 (playoffs), 9-7 in 2014, 11-5 in 2015 (playoffs), 12-4 in 2016 (playoffs) and 10-6 in 2017 (Playoffs).

KC was already a proven winner without and before Patrick Mahomes because throughout the previous 5 years before Patrick Mahomes took his first career snap? Patrick Mahomes got drafted into a team with 4 Postseason Playoff appearances and 5 consecutive winning seasons; Patrick Mahomes didn't turn KC into a winner; Patrick Mahomes was drafted into a winner.

PS: it is the other way around. 

Patrick Mahomes is only 3-2 All-Time without Tyreek Hill and Patrick Mahomes is only 1-1 All-Time without Travis Kelce (only 4-3 overall without them both).

✓ Patrick Mahomes isn't Patrick Mahomes without both of KCs Offensive Weapons + Andy Reid because Andy Reid also took Philadelphia to 4 consecutive NFC Championship Games too. 

I will repeat what I said.  What elite weapons OUTSIDE of KELCE and HILL does Mahomes have?  I will also repeat my statement.  Mahomes makes the REST of those guys look good, not the other way around.

I was not questioning the elite traits of Hill or Kelce like you seem to believe I did.  I was asking you about all those elite weapons you insinuated KC had.  Dude.

And what did I say exactly about Kelce?  And why am I wrong about Hill exactly?  I am curious to hear your answer on what you think I said about them.

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Mecole Hardman. We all wanted him and KC chose him. Not a 1k guy bc 3 guys just aren’t going to do that in 1 offense. But you put him on alot if teams and he’s a legit weapon. He’s pretty much Elijah Moore… just a 3rd option for them.

Maybe.  I just see KC's receivers besides Hill and Kelce like Pats receivers when Brady was there.  They are not bad, but Mahomes and that O make them look a lot better.  Put Hardman on the Jets and he is average.  Its a debate that has no answer unless Hardman goes to another team with a lesser QB.

[Bobby816]

26 minutes ago, xrade said:

Maybe.  I just see KC's receivers besides Hill and Kelce like Pats receivers when Brady was there.  They are not bad, but Mahomes and that O make them look a lot better.  Put Hardman on the Jets and he is average.  Its a debate that has no answer unless Hardman goes to another team with a lesser QB.

I agree with your point is essence. Bc a guy like Kupp isn’t Kupp with us. But the likelihood of Wilson being Stafford is better if he has guys like Kupp, than it is if he was guys like we’ve given past QBs.

[KingOfNewYork]

Elijah Moore has so much ability to become a very good to Elite receiver. Before guys like Kelce, Hill and Kupp were household names they were in the same spot as Moore. 

We gotta develop our guys and put them in positions to succeed. 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I agree with your point is essence. Bc a guy like Kupp isn’t Kupp with us. But the likelihood of Wilson being Stafford is better if he has guys like Kupp, than it is if he was guys like we’ve given past QBs.

No doubt.  But the two things aren't the same.  Hardman looks good on KC because of Mahomes.  Maybe he looks good elsewhere as well, we may never know.  Saying Hardman / Kupp would help Wilson be a better QB is also probable.  Young QB's need help.  Which is one of the reasons a vet WR may be more beneficial this year vs a rookie.  However, a good QB can make WR's look better than they may be elsewhere which was the original discussion.  Two different issues.  We all know the past failures of previous Jet regimes regarding young QB's.