2022 Offseason and FA Talk

[rickyt31]

6 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Let me know if y’all follow this logic.

Corey Davis and Elijah Moore have a gap between them talent wise. I’m not sure who’s better but there’s a gap and then there’s a ceiling(the better player) and a floor(the worse player). We need to add a player that either;

A. Exceeds that ceiling

or 

B. Falls somewhere in that gap between the two. Better than one, not better than the other.

We cannot do this however 

C. Add someone who is below that floor. Worse than both of them.

Pair that with bringing back Berrios, Cole and continuing to develop Mims. 

Continuity is important and I want guys hitting the ground running come camp. 

That's a great Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C situation. 

If Wilson performed like Carr, Murray, Mills, and others who performed well during their rookie year without a solid surrounding, I wouldn't care if we grabbed someone better than Davis or not. That may speed up the process a little for Wilson who still has to prove he can be a starting QB. He needs someone that won't disappear when playing a tough defense (We have 2 in our division alone). 

"B" & "C" could work if we're focused on building a good defense, running offense, and have a TE who can give you 600+ yards. I'm interested in Berrios, but the fact that we haven't resigned him yet makes me believe we got him on hold just in case we don't get who we're really targeting. We'll see. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Cincinnati Bengals used their Franchise Tag on FS Jessie Bates III. 

Jacksonville Jaguars used their Franchise Tag on LT Cam Robinson. 

And just like that our Jets went from #5 in NFL Available Salary Cap Space to #3 in NFL Available Salary Cap Space. 

@ $48,816,765 in available Salary Cap Space we're absolutely fully loaded and approximately $10M more than Jacksonville and $14M more than Cincinnati!

[NJerseypaint]

2 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Let me know if y’all follow this logic.

Corey Davis and Elijah Moore have a gap between them talent wise. I’m not sure who’s better but there’s a gap and then there’s a ceiling(the better player) and a floor(the worse player). We need to add a player that either;

A. Exceeds that ceiling, better than both. Unlikely but possible. 

or 

B. Falls somewhere in that gap between the two. Better than one, not better than the other.

We cannot do this however 

C. Add someone who is below that floor. Worse than both of them.

Pair that with bringing back Berrios, Cole and continuing to develop Mims. 

Continuity is important and I want guys hitting the ground running come camp. 

We need A.

Corey is still a #2 masquerading as a #1 and Moore still has the jury out. I'd love to land a surefire star - someone like Lamb and Chase that comes in a just shines.

I think Olave is that guy, and thankfully many analysts are not as high on him as the rest of the class, so there's a chance he's there in the second round.

[rickyt31]

From the looks of things, I do feel like Saleh & JD is building what I'm hoping for. I've been looking around different rosters I liked over the years to get an idea of what direction we could go for that could help us become a contender sooner than later without over spending. 3 teams come to mind. 07' Giants, 13' Seahawks, 19' 49ers, and 17' & 19' VIkings. This isn't saying build through the draft or free agency exactly like they did, but where to build the strength of the team. 

07' Giants is probably the closet to what I think Saleh & JD are going to aim for. That team beat some of the best offenses and QBs while Eli wasn't the best. He stepped up, but he was never on the level of Brady, Rodgers, and other great QBs. The media laughed when Eli said he was elite. They built a defense that could contend with the league's best offenses and built an offense that could take the pressure off of Eli. When Eli was ready, he stepped up. Eli wouldn't have any rings if he went to Green Bay or New Orleans. I've been calling it the "Eli plan". Because Eli grew from that moment and came back with another good defense but this time, he led the offense completely. 

After watching them go from a 7-9 team to SB champs, the way 13' Seattle built their team while Saleh was there must have some type of impact on what he is now aiming for.  They didn't just beat high powered offenses led by Rogers, P.Manning, and others. They were battling against tough teams like the 49ers. They were incredibly fun to watch for me. Russell was pretty good early, but that same type of surrounding helped him until his confidence grew. 

Everyone always talks about Shan's offense when it comes to the 2019 49ers, as they should, but they forget about how well that defense was built for the other offenses. The top-4 passing offenses that year were from the NFC, 6 out of the top 10 were from the NFC. The biggest difference was that Saleh 's defense had the #1 pass defense in the league. They were close to pulling it off the year after they won only 4 games when Jimmy G got hurt. They had a great offense, but also a defense that could challenge top offenses. 

17' & 19' VIkings are probably the most interesting teams I've seen over the years. 2017, the Vikings had such a great surrounding, they almost made the SB with Keenum as the QB and a 2nd string RB. That defense was big and athletic. The lost to the Eagles the year they won the SB. If they had just a good enough QB and starting RB, that game goes differently. 19', very similar but their offense was a lot better. They almost made the SB, but couldn't stop the run when they faced the 49ers who made it to the SB that year. This team was so close and built one of the most complete teams I've seen in a while. Although they had a good offense, they missed the playoffs like the Chargers. If that offense was paired with the 2017 defense, that's a superbowl team easily. 

These are the type of teams I can see contending in this current AFC race and who we can build similar to. I can't look at what worked for Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, and other top QBs and assume that same build would help Wilson become a winner. The closet example I can follow is Josh Allen and they are still a tough defense with the #6 rushing offense in the league. Definitely not going to expect Wilson to become the rushing threat Allen is. This is the same formula we used to beat Brady, Peyton, and almost Ben. This time, Mahomes, Burrow, and other AFC QBs are in those shoes. 

[Big T]

With all the FA signings, it makes things simpler for the Jets and at the same time opens up the FA signings for 2023. Its said that some of the best trades and FA signings are the one's you don't make. The Jets as an organization I would say is 50/50 when it comes to signing FA's. The organization as a whole under Idzik and Mac were a disaster. To J.D.'s credit he has picked up some real talent from other rosters who were cut or at a minimal cost.

So here we are right before the draft with glaring needs at TE especially, but it is a position which can be addressed in the draft with some good players. So I'm cool with it. A CB could be had in FA if the Jets want to break the bank or trade for Bradberry and give up a 3rd rounder.

The top players on any team especially those who were bailed out with the cap rising to 208 million are going to sign blue chip players and not allow them to hit the FA market.

FA is cool, if you are a player or two from really being a playoff contender. The Jets are nowhere near that threshold yet.

So build through the draft, the Jets are sure to add 5 quality players unless they trade up or trade back and garner more draft capitol either for this year or next.

JD has been a revelation at making deals, signing players off of other teams, and last year hitting it out of the park with the draft.

Can he duplicate it in 2022? IMHO he may not hit it out of the park, but the Jets will be a better team and Zac will have a more talented group of guys to work with then he had in his rookie season.

[Bobby816]

7 hours ago, rickyt31 said:

From the looks of things, I do feel like Saleh & JD is building what I'm hoping for. I've been looking around different rosters I liked over the years to get an idea of what direction we could go for that could help us become a contender sooner than later without over spending. 3 teams come to mind. 07' Giants, 13' Seahawks, 19' 49ers, and 17' & 19' VIkings. This isn't saying build through the draft or free agency exactly like they did, but where to build the strength of the team. 

07' Giants is probably the closet to what I think Saleh & JD are going to aim for. That team beat some of the best offenses and QBs while Eli wasn't the best. He stepped up, but he was never on the level of Brady, Rodgers, and other great QBs. The media laughed when Eli said he was elite. They built a defense that could contend with the league's best offenses and built an offense that could take the pressure off of Eli. When Eli was ready, he stepped up. Eli wouldn't have any rings if he went to Green Bay or New Orleans. I've been calling it the "Eli plan". Because Eli grew from that moment and came back with another good defense but this time, he led the offense completely. 

After watching them go from a 7-9 team to SB champs, the way 13' Seattle built their team while Saleh was there must have some type of impact on what he is now aiming for.  They didn't just beat high powered offenses led by Rogers, P.Manning, and others. They were battling against tough teams like the 49ers. They were incredibly fun to watch for me. Russell was pretty good early, but that same type of surrounding helped him until his confidence grew. 

Everyone always talks about Shan's offense when it comes to the 2019 49ers, as they should, but they forget about how well that defense was built for the other offenses. The top-4 passing offenses that year were from the NFC, 6 out of the top 10 were from the NFC. The biggest difference was that Saleh 's defense had the #1 pass defense in the league. They were close to pulling it off the year after they won only 4 games when Jimmy G got hurt. They had a great offense, but also a defense that could challenge top offenses. 

17' & 19' VIkings are probably the most interesting teams I've seen over the years. 2017, the Vikings had such a great surrounding, they almost made the SB with Keenum as the QB and a 2nd string RB. That defense was big and athletic. The lost to the Eagles the year they won the SB. If they had just a good enough QB and starting RB, that game goes differently. 19', very similar but their offense was a lot better. They almost made the SB, but couldn't stop the run when they faced the 49ers who made it to the SB that year. This team was so close and built one of the most complete teams I've seen in a while. Although they had a good offense, they missed the playoffs like the Chargers. If that offense was paired with the 2017 defense, that's a superbowl team easily. 

These are the type of teams I can see contending in this current AFC race and who we can build similar to. I can't look at what worked for Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, and other top QBs and assume that same build would help Wilson become a winner. The closet example I can follow is Josh Allen and they are still a tough defense with the #6 rushing offense in the league. Definitely not going to expect Wilson to become the rushing threat Allen is. This is the same formula we used to beat Brady, Peyton, and almost Ben. This time, Mahomes, Burrow, and other AFC QBs are in those shoes. 

I see what you're saying... but your leaving out what those teams actually had on offense. I'm obviously a big advocate for us to build up the offense. By no means does that mean neglect the defense. I want balance. But I think our more valuable assets should be used on what in TODAYS NFL are premium positions. I view DE as the only defensive premium position. Where I see several on offense. And that's bc the NFL has changed to cater to the offense since some of these teams you mention. We will never know... but those NYG and SEA teams in todays game aren't cutting it as regular SB contenders if you ask me. But that's a matter of opinion

 

07 Giants: Brandon Jacobs, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Jeremy Shockey and a good OL.

13 Seahawks: Marshawn Lynch, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and a good OL.

19: Raheem Mostert, Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida, George Kittle, Deebo Samuel and a good OL.

17 Vikings: Latavius Murray, Adam Theilen, Stefon Diggs, Kyle Rudolph and a good OL.

 

So what's the theme? They all had a good OL and a running game. Which allows the defense to not be on the field as much. Which helps a defense in itself with rest and just the obvious that if you're not out there, you cant get scored on as much. And every one of those teams had at least a couple weapons in the passing game as well.

 

So obviously we have a young team and we have guys that we can "hope" be good like these guys. But we cant say with certainty that we do. Zach Wilson isn't at the level of any of these teams QBs for starters "yet", Carter is not on the level of any of these RBs, our WRs and TEs aren't on the level of these teams. So it's a comparison that doesn't hold much value.

 

 

 

[KingOfNewYork]

Guys, we need both a good offense and a good defense. We’re allowed to have both. 

[jetsfan4life51]

We need premium positions.  DE, OL, WR.  End of story.

[KingOfNewYork]

10 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

We need premium positions.  DE, OL, WR.  End of story.

WR isn’t okay premium but yes this is simply it.

[jetsfan4life51]

2 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

WR isn’t okay premium but yes this is simply it.

You wouldn't say WR is a premium position this day and age?  I'd say because college offenses are featuring more WRs and now you can get a steal rounds 2-3 and they don't need 3 years to develop you can draft guys a little later, and it's better to have different skillsets.  But I would still call it premium.  

Safest draft for us would be Neal then Edge at 10.  WR and S round 2.  TE and LB after.

[xrade]

12 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

We need premium positions.  DE, OL, WR.  End of story.

100% agree.  I think the debate that continues on here is who do we draft in round 1 if OL and WR are addressed in FA?  We all want Hutch or Thibbs at 4.  But if they are gone do you reach for the third best DE?  Is it a reach? Could we get a DE at 10 or in round 2 that is not much more of a drop off from Ojabo and Karilaftis?  Do you draft a blue chip prospect at 4 not at a premium position? 

[xrade]

Bobby Wagner, yea or nay?

[rickyt31]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I see what you're saying... but your leaving out what those teams actually had on offense. I'm obviously a big advocate for us to build up the offense. By no means does that mean neglect the defense. I want balance. But I think our more valuable assets should be used on what in TODAYS NFL are premium positions. I view DE as the only defensive premium position. Where I see several on offense. And that's bc the NFL has changed to cater to the offense since some of these teams you mention. We will never know... but those NYG and SEA teams in todays game aren't cutting it as regular SB contenders if you ask me. But that's a matter of opinion

 

07 Giants: Brandon Jacobs, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Jeremy Shockey and a good OL.

13 Seahawks: Marshawn Lynch, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and a good OL.

19: Raheem Mostert, Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida, George Kittle, Deebo Samuel and a good OL.

17 Vikings: Latavius Murray, Adam Theilen, Stefon Diggs, Kyle Rudolph and a good OL.

 

So what's the theme? They all had a good OL and a running game. Which allows the defense to not be on the field as much. Which helps a defense in itself with rest and just the obvious that if you're not out there, you cant get scored on as much. And every one of those teams had at least a couple weapons in the passing game as well.

 

So obviously we have a young team and we have guys that we can "hope" be good like these guys. But we cant say with certainty that we do. Zach Wilson isn't at the level of any of these teams QBs for starters "yet", Carter is not on the level of any of these RBs, our WRs and TEs aren't on the level of these teams. So it's a comparison that doesn't hold much value.

 

 

 

Lol Again,  you're showing up with paragraphs as if I said forget offense.  The whole thing is about building a good defense AND running offense.  Provided examples of how those systems helped QBs like Eli. 

I've been saying balance the whole time, but as soon as anyone mentions defense,  you get annoyed. 😂 I already said I'm not doing these debates with you.  We're just going to go back and forth until we agree that we need balance until you react to another post that says literally anything about defense.  

[rickyt31]

18 minutes ago, xrade said:

Bobby Wagner, yea or nay?

I'm thinking about it. Great move if we miss on younger guys we want. Then we can have someone developing behind him and Mosley. 

[KingOfNewYork]

26 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

You wouldn't say WR is a premium position this day and age?  I'd say because college offenses are featuring more WRs and now you can get a steal rounds 2-3 and they don't need 3 years to develop you can draft guys a little later, and it's better to have different skillsets.  But I would still call it premium.  

Safest draft for us would be Neal then Edge at 10.  WR and S round 2.  TE and LB after.

WR has never been premium. There’s far too many of them available and with the rules making it easier to be a good WR because you can’t touch them it isn’t premium in that sense.

Tier 1- QB, OL, DL

Tier 2- WR, CB

Tier 3- LB, RB, S, TE