Official 2022 Draft Discussion

[m haynes]

6 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

f you

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤣

[Crimmage]

4 hours ago, m haynes said:

This I don't agree with. I think CB is a waste if you don't have a rush. Booth can be an ALL Pro and it still doesn't move the needle, its just like having JC for the next 5 years and if you used a 1st on Booth, next year is a wasted year (without a rush) and now its 4 yrs left and still looking for a rush.

Also what the difference between Gorden and Booth. IMO not much.

I agree about the pass rush..it will make any secondary look great. They have some foundation players to help with the pass rush: Judon / Barmore / Uche Situationally / Dugger and Peppers. If you add another guy on the DL you could be in really good shape. If you add one more guy who can help them I think everyone would be better tbo.

 

I'll give you a scenario: Let's ignore Booth's injuries and just assume he will be healthy and that BB loves him. 

- Draft Andrew Booth at 21, he is a day 1 starter

- Trade up into the 30's and take Travis Jones. He is also a day 1 starter 

 

This is similar to what they did last year to get Barmore. I believe you would see a noticeable difference to the defense with both of them. 

 

I'm way too interested in trading back to pick this scenario personally lol .. but I do see it as a viable option that they will strongly consider.  

 

 

The way I would "fix" the defense: Trade back from 21 to get an early 2 and 3. 

2 -> Travis Jones (he's really the only NT outside of Davis who will be able to transform this front 7 day 1) 

2 -> Troy Anderson ( I pick Anderson just because I think BB will fall in love with him.. but I see multiple good LB options)

3-> Nick Cross (He's not as refined as Dax Hill or Lewis Cine.. but I think a year with McCourty could do wonders for him)

3-> Zyon McCollum (Zyon is my favorite but could be a variety of corners) 

Day 3 Goals: 

-> OL (Zach Tom, Cade Mays, Jason Poe, Matt Waletzko, Obinna Eze, Andrew Stueber, Vederian Lowe, etc.)

-> WR ( Bo Melton & Tyquan Thornton are my favorites .. I can talk myself into Bolden if I have to)

-> P (Araiza or Jordan Stout)

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Crimmage

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, m haynes said:

This I don't agree with. I think CB is a waste if you don't have a rush. Booth can be an ALL Pro and it still doesn't move the needle, its just like having JC for the next 5 years and if you used a 1st on Booth, next year is a wasted year (without a rush) and now its 4 yrs left and still looking for a rush.

Also what the difference between Gorden and Booth. IMO not much.

This is why I’m thinking it must be a BPA draft. So we need a CB and a guard…but if a really good pass rusher is on the board, we have to take him

we are going to need a somewhat stacked roster in this division now, going forward. We have genuine elite talent to worry us now. Especially at WR and unfortunately a top 3 QB

in Bill we trust, and all that, and no one can make chicken salad from chicken dung like he can. But even then there’s a threshold. Last two games came Buffalo prove this 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Hunter2_1

[m haynes]

15 hours ago, Crimmage said:

I'll give you a scenario: Let's ignore Booth's injuries and just assume he will be healthy and that BB loves him. 

- Draft Andrew Booth at 21, he is a day 1 starter

- Trade up into the 30's and take Travis Jones. He is also a day 1 starter 

This is the perfect scenario however it doesn't work unless you get Jones. He's the key.  Lets say you take Jones at 21 and take Gorden in the 2nd RD. Same thing happens.  IMO a rush turns the 2nd RD CBs into 1st RD talent.

We both know what we need but have a different way to get there.👍 I'm hoping the 1st or 2nd pick they get the best rusher available.  

Pick 21 has to be used to get a pass rusher.  Use the pick on someone or ( @Crimmage you mentioned)  trade to get one.  If all else fails you have to decide whats your best option at 21.  I'm not sure if CB is worth it at 21. That's the big dilemma. I would go OL and WR. I can't believe I'm saying WR over a CB. How the NFL has changed.

PS  When I say WR at 21, I'm talking about Williamson. Other might say Dotson, Olave.

16 hours ago, Crimmage said:

Zyon McCollum (Zyon is my favorite but could be a variety of corners) 

I would rather have McCollum in the 2nd than Booth in the 1st. The more I read and see, he will play CB in the NFL. That's all I can ask for from a draft pick.   Booth is a good CB but is he worth the 21st pick. Let use a scale. Booth's a 10 and McCollum is a 9 !!!!  ZM rated 9 because small school competition.  21st pick has to move the needle.

Last ----  I'm not a fan of Booth. I was, but his injury history if a big turn off. The last straw was he pulled a muscle... another injury!!! Also he played mostly in zone so its hard to gauge his speed. Combine injury, maybe to hide his 40!!!!!!

 

[m haynes]

4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

This is why I’m thinking it must be a BPA draft.

I agree. What's crazy is whatever falls to 21 is a big need for the Pats other than a QB.

Funny you just changed my whole draft thoughts!!!!!  I'm still looking for rush DL however all others positions are just as critical.  It's BPA.

At 21, I have to be calm when the Pats take OL Zion Johnson, Bernhard Raimann or Kenyon Green. The highest rated player on the board. 

My temper might boil on draft night if they take Tyler Linderbaum.  But I will repeat in my head, BPA, BPA,BPA!!!!

[Crimmage]

The way they compete and make the playoffs this year is by getting day 1 impact starters on defense. If we assume Mac makes a year 2 jump ( otherwise you're dead in the water anyway), you've got to figure out how to stop all the amazing offenses in the AFC. 

 

That's why I think you need to address all three levels of the defense in the top 100. In order to make that happen, you absolutely have to trade back in the 1st.. and potentially in the 2nd too. My goal would be 5 day 2 picks, but if you can get 4 I think you can make massive improvements to the defense.. the 5th would be used on offense for LG/ Best WR Available. 

 

As crazy as it sounds .. i would probably be ok with trading back / out of the 2nd round all together .. this is a very "Trader BB" draft.. he should be on the phones with everyone trying to stack picks for this year and next. 

21 for 33+65

54 for 64+96

--------------

33 = Daxton Hill / Travis Jones

64 = Troy Anderson / Quay Walker / Channing Tindall / Darrian Beavers / Brian Asamoah / Cameron Thomas / Nick Bonitto 

65 = (I'd probably try and trade back 10 picks and grab a future pick here too) John Metchie / Perrion Winfrey / Danielle Faalale / Cole Strange

85 = Nick Cross / Marcus Jones / James Cook / Josh Paschal / Cole Strange

96 = Zyon McCollum / Cam Taylor-Britt / Zach Tom 

 

You probably need to jump up 5-10 picks or so for some guys but you should be able to easily do so with the day 3 picks they have. I'm incredibly confident you could overhaul this entire defense in one draft. 

 

 

[m haynes]

Ok Here are two players I have seen recently, moving up the board and associated with the Pats. Here's my take on each player.

Martin Emerson Jr.

• Don't know much, looked at him ( Month+ ago) and didn't like his game. I never looked again. Off my board.

Drake Jackson

• 1st impression   A big NO!!!
• Didn't like his body type and slow movement.
• Plays for USC competition is a problem.
• Went back to look again same things applies.
• Watch is Pro Day tape, he looked pudgy and slow.
• Read article that said he lost weight for the combine 20 LBS than added back for his PD!!!!! I hate this its tells me that his camp is trying to manipulate the process and not showing the true player.

Any thought on these two players.

I will have to look at Emerson again.

 

[Crimmage]

3 minutes ago, m haynes said:

Ok Here are two players I have seen recently, moving up the board and associated with the Pats. Here's my take on each player.

Martin Emerson Jr.

• Don't know much, looked at him ( Month+ ago) and didn't like his game. I never looked again. Off my board.

He is going to get mocked to the Pats because he's a big CB like JoeJuan .. so we assume they want someone like that. 

The difference i saw is he is def faster than JoeJuan ( not like super fast but ok) and seems to have a bit more of an edge to him. He's ok as a late 2nd guy.. but I'm meh overall

[DoleINGout]

I'm not a proponent of Travis Jones in the first round in any way. I would rather they trade out of the first than take Jones that soon. If Jordan Davis, Trent McDuffie, or Troy Anderson aren't their pick then I think they will have traded down in the first and taken an offensive lineman like Kenyon Green or wide receiver -if not just traded out of the first round at that point altogether.

At 21: Jordan Davis, Troy Anderson, Trent McDuffie, Kenyon Green, Jameson Williams

Trade Down 1st: Cameron Thomas, Marcus Jones, Phidarian Mathis, Zyon McCollum, Christian Harris, Andrew Booth Jr.

Trade Down Early 2nd: John Metchie III, Calvin Austin III, Tyler Linderbaum, Luke Goedeke, Trey McBride, Trevor Penning

Obviously if one of those players in the earlier pool drops to a later pick then they would be top consideration there most likely. But this is what I expect.

Edited April 18, 2022 by DoleINGout

[m haynes]

3 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I'm not a proponent of Travis Jones in the first round in any way. I would rather they trade out of the first than take Jones that soon. If Jordan Davis, Trent McDuffie, or Troy Anderson aren't their pick then I think they will have traded down in the first and taken an offensive lineman like Kenyon Green or wide receiver -if not just traded out of the first round at that point altogether.

At 21: Jordan Davis, Troy Anderson, Trent McDuffie, Kenyon Green, Jameson Williams

Trade Down 1st: Cameron Thomas, Marcus Jones, Phidarian Mathis, Zyon McCollum, Christian Harris, Andrew Booth Jr.

Trade Down Early 2nd: John Metchie III, Calvin Austin III, Tyler Linderbaum, Luke Goedeke, Trey McBride, Trevor Penning

Obviously if one of those players in the earlier pool drops to a later pick then they would be top consideration there most likely. But this is what I expect.

I don't understand why you would not take Jones but you would take the other players you mentioned.  I would use 21 on Jones or Davis they are the only players you mentioned that help at all three defensive levels.

I like McDuffie however he doesn't move the needle at all. He takes the place of JC Jackson , no upgrade only a replacement, so everything stay the same in 2022.  Bills still don't punt!!! Also I don't think McDuffie is a s good as Jackson.

Troy Anderson at 21 is a complete reach. He's a player that will help down the road. MOF he will most likely be on ST in his 1st year and used sparingly. He's one of my favorites in the draft but not at 21.  I don't see a WR in the 1st because you can get one later and I don't see BB taking one after putting a 100 mil in the group he has now. People asking for WR are the Phil Perrys of the world, so call experts.  Green I can't argue if you want to go offense however I don't agree not taking Jones at 21. 

You put Jones with Barmore and that would be deadly. Jones does the grunt work while you unleash Barmore to reek havoc in the backfield. There are many tape on You Tube showing Jones taking on double and triple teams and holding his own. He exactly what they need.
 

Quote

 

Jones particularly shined as a run defender, using his massive frame to eat up space and anchor the trenches. He was tough to move, and had the strength to force blockers back into the pocket on a consistent basis. He had enough wiggle and athleticism to explode through the line, or break from his lineman to jump into a gap and swallow up the ball carrier. He frequently demanded double-teams, as interior lineman struggled to contain his play strength and sheer mass.

As a pass rusher, Jones had fairly good results for a nose tackle, racking up eight sacks over the past two years. He’s still fairly underdeveloped in his pass rush technique, but he wins by simply walking linemen back into the pocket and shoving himself into the quarterback.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/travis-jones-scouting-report-2022-nfl-draft-uconn-huskies-football/

I watched  SR Bowl week and Jones dominated any OL- man put in front of him. He threw them around like rag dolls.  The only guy that that gave him a battle was Zion Johnson.  You put him beside Barmore you just created a dominate front that wuill put pressure on the QBs and that helps withall three level. The only way to stop offense is DL pressure EX Donald, Ramsey best CB can't do crap without DL pressure.

Now if you say Edge guy I could understand but I don't see any of the guys you mentioned moving the needle when it comes to AFC.

[DoleINGout]

On 4/17/2022 at 12:33 AM, DoleINGout said:

Finally started watching some prospects videos. Here are my official favorites:

 

Round 1: 21st overall - Troy Anderson, LB/RB/QB, Montana State

Round 2: 54th overall - Marcus Jones, CB/KR/PR, Sam Houston

Round 3: 85th overall - Bo Melton, WR/ST, Rutgers

Round 4: 127th overall - Jake Ferguson, TE, Wisconsin

Round 5: 170th overall (from Tampa Bay for G Shaq Mason)* - LaBryan Ray, DT/DE, Alabama

Round 6: 200th overall - Ben Brown, IOL, Ole Miss

Round 6: 210th overall (from Los Angeles for RB Sony Michel) - Max Borghi, RB/ST/WR, Washington State

 

On 4/17/2022 at 12:44 AM, DoleINGout said:

My other favorite prospects we could see drafted for Pats:

name-school-position-round

 

trent mcduffie washington cb 1

kenyon green texas a&m ol 1/2

cameron thomas san diego state de 1/2

calvin austin iii memphis wr/kr 1/2

martin emerson jr miss state fs/cb 2

justin ross clemson wr 2

john metchie iii alabama wr 2

zyon mccollum sam houston cb/st 2/3

phidarian mathis alabama dt 2/3

trey mcbride colorado state te 2/3

quay walker georgia lb 2/3

josh paschal kentucky de 2/3

luke goedeke central michigan ol 2/3

eyioma uwazurike iowa state dt/de 3/4

max mitchell louisiana ot 3/4

rashaad white arizona state rb 4/5

jack coan notre dame qb 4/5

cole turner nevada te 4/5

Add: Jameson Williams, Nakobe Dean, Zion Johnson, Christian Harris, Andrew Booth Jr., Trevor Penning, DJ Davidson, and D'Eriq King.

5 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

I'm not a proponent of Travis Jones in the first round in any way. I would rather they trade out of the first than take Jones that soon. If Jordan Davis, Trent McDuffie, or Troy Anderson aren't their pick then I think they will have traded down in the first and taken an offensive lineman like Kenyon Green or wide receiver -if not just traded out of the first round at that point altogether.

At 21: Jordan Davis, Troy Anderson, Trent McDuffie, Kenyon Green, Jameson Williams

Trade Down 1st: Cameron Thomas, Marcus Jones, Phidarian Mathis, Zyon McCollum, Christian Harris, Andrew Booth Jr.

Trade Down Early 2nd: John Metchie III, Calvin Austin III, Tyler Linderbaum, Luke Goedeke, Trey McBride, Trevor Penning

Obviously if one of those players in the earlier pool drops to a later pick then they would be top consideration there most likely. But this is what I expect.

Alternative Reality Mock Draft to First

 

Round 2: 30th overall [KC trade 30&62 for 21] - Zion Johnson, OL, Boston College

Round 2: 54th overall - Trey McBride, TE, Colorado State

Round 3: 62nd overall - Troy Andersen, LB/RB/QB/P, Montana State

Round 3: 85th overall - Marcus Jones, CB/WR/KR/PR, Houston

Round 4: 127th overall - Bo Melton, WR/ST, Rutgers

Round 5: 170th overall (from Tampa Bay for G Shaq Mason)* - Darien Butler, LB, Arizona State

Round 6: 200th overall - D'Eriq King, QB/WR, Miami (Fla.)

Round 6: 210th overall (from Los Angeles for RB Sony Michel) - DJ Davidson, DL, Arizona State

[DoleINGout]

@m haynes @Crimmage Travis Jones does nothing for me from what I see and read. At least not until you get to the second round.

[DoleINGout]

8 hours ago, m haynes said:

Troy Anderson at 21 is a complete reach

Kyle Dugger has entered the chat. Along with all the other reaches of the past. Justified or not. I am attempting to put what I profile a player to be against the history of the Patriots drafting decisions and come up with a mock draft that represents what is most likely or most similar to what the Patriots will eventually do.

I feel Troy Andersen will make a justifiable pick as high as 21 if going on athleticism, Patriots needs, position versatility, and yes the Patriots penchant for some overvaluing/reaching on a prospect earlier than necessary. I think Andersen could prove to be worth the 21st pick overall this year but his draft slot is probably most safely within the second round for a team that wants him without having to "reach".

8 hours ago, m haynes said:

no upgrade only a replacement

McDuffie is an improvement over JC Jackson, not merely a replacement, and it is definitely a major upgrade to the CB position from what they currently have. Plus McDuff has the added versatility to move around the secondary at any spot. I think McDuffie is one of the small handful of players who would be the pick if there at 21. I don't expect he will be at the Patriots pick however. 

8 hours ago, m haynes said:

Jones dominated any OL- man put in front of him. He threw them around like rag dolls.  The only guy that that gave him a battle was Zion Johnson. 

How fitting I mocked Zion to the Pats in my alternate draft prediction. I didn't read after the second quote in your post until just a moment ago because I didn't think it was intended for me/thought you were quoting @Crimmage or someone else.

My feeling on Travis Jones is that he is fine in the second round but I don't think he is the sum of all his parts, basically. I think he got by in college with the strength you alluded to but otherwise I don't see anything else consistently to make me feel like he is a dominant player. Again, I would feel fine with the decision to draft him in the second round but I just don't think he will ultimately reach the ceiling of being a real difference maker that, IMO, a first round pick should have the potential to be.

Edited April 19, 2022 by DoleINGout

[m haynes]

3 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Kyle Dugger has entered the chat. Along with all the other reaches of the past. Justified or not. I am attempting to put what I profile a player to be against the history of the Patriots drafting decisions and come up with a mock draft that represents is most likely or most similar to what the Patriots will eventually do.

I feel Troy Andersen will make a justifiable pick as high as 21 if going on athleticism, Patriots needs, position versatility, and yes the Patriots penchant for some overvaluing/reaching on a prospect earlier than necessary. I think Andersen could prove to be worth the 21st pick overall this year but his draft slot is probably most safely within the second round for a team that wants him without having to "reach".

McDuffie is an improvement over JC Jackson, not merely a replacement. Plus McDuff has the added versatility to move around the secondary at any spot.

How fitting I mocked Zion to the Pats in my alternate draft prediction. I didn't read after the second quote in your post until just a moment ago because I didn't think it was intended for me/thought you were quoting @Crimmage or someone else.

My feeling on Travis Jones is that he is fine in the second round but I don't think he is the sum of all his parts, basically. I think he got by in college with the strength you alluded to but otherwise I don't see anything else consistently to make me feel like he is a dominant player. Again, I would feel fine with the decision to draft him in the second round but I just don't think he will ultimately reach the ceiling of being a real difference maker that, IMO, a first round pick should have the potential to be.

So what I'm getting from your comments,  you projecting what the Pats will do with players that you like even though they are picked earlier than expected.

Also Your reference to Dugger.  "Kyle Dugger has entered the chat. "  does nothing to persuade me to agree with your draft assessment.

MOF It opens up why you don't reach in the draft.  There are others that can't enter the chat because they are long gone or sit way back in the cub house so they can't be seen or heard. Trevon Wilson, Jordan Richard, Dominic Easley, Harry and my two favorites  Dalton Keene and  Joejuan Williams.

For every Dugger there are 1000 others  now working 9 to 5.

PS I have to add here. 

Jones is a 1st RD pick for me based on what he can do for our overall defense. I also see what he will do for Barmore, which is to free him up to rush the passer while Jones stay and clogs up the middle. Jones gets double team which is a great help to Barmore and out other rushers.

I pick Jones in the 1st becasue we have Barmore without him, Jones doesn't effect the defense and I would look at other players at 21 or most likely trade down. I still looking to draft him however not at 21. IMO he's a major key to improve our overall DL and defense.

Here's how I can explain it, hopefully what I'm trying to say.   Jones is Klecko to Mark Gastineau (Barmore). Together they are much more effective.

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, m haynes said:

I pick Jones in the 1st becasue we have Barmore without him, Jones doesn't effect the defense and I would look at other players at 21 or most likely trade down. I still looking to draft him however not at 21. IMO he's a major key to improve our overall DL and defense.

Here's how I can explain it, hopefully what I'm trying to say.   Jones is Klecko to Mark Gastineau (Barmore). Together they are much more effective.

I understand the reason you're giving for Jones but you can invest a much lower selection on someone who effectively occupies blockers and 2-gaps to in essence free up more pass rush from Baremore. I would think and I hope the first pick is used on a more dynamic player with some versatility to boot.

And no, I am not just mocking the players I like to the Patriots. I have a wide range of positions and players listed already that I expect more so than I like.