big_palooka Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Rich7sena said: Weekly update. John Gruen edition: I know we all want to see Roberts cut, but he's guaranteed 2 mil. correct? So he isn't going anywhere. Trading for Dez is the opposite of adding leadership. I'd rather sign Landry in FA. I can get behind that draft. Roquan is the speed the Raiders need on D. His closing speed is remarkable. A lot gets said about his size, but he's an open field tackling machine. Michel is an awesome pass catcher out of the backfield. He's going to be a terrific pro. Hand is not that exciting to me. Been underwhelming considering his expectations. He was suppose to be a high draft pick and just hasn't flashed. He'd be boom or bust. I'd say coaching him up could pay off, but he's getting the best coaching possible right now in college and isn't showing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Dessie said: If we re-sign Bowman then I’m happy with the LBs we’ve got. Morrow James and Lee have all flashed potential, just need an experienced vet alongside them imo. This line of thinking is what kills me with Raider fans. Morrow, Lee and James are at best depth players but "because they flashed" the most minute amount of potential we overvalue them and are okay starting them. No thanks! Get me some actual talent at the position. Personally.... the lack of attention to the LB position is annoying. Keep trying to plug and play scrubs and expecting them to grow but none had high ceilings to start with. Time to get serious with this defense and stop relying on guys who "flashed potential". Get guys who can play football. There is a Green Bay Packer complex with this team right now under this draft and develop strategy (as Ha-Ha pointed out recently). You're trying to force development and players into roles they simply are not ready for. Your "depth" are street FA's and low/un-drafted rookies who shouldn't be on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, big_palooka said: This line of thinking is what kills me with Raider fans. Morrow, Lee and James are at best depth players but "because they flashed" the most minute amount of potential we overvalue them and are okay starting them. No thanks! Get me some actual talent at the position. Personally.... the lack of attention to the LB position is annoying. Keep trying to plug and play scrubs and expecting them to grow but none had high ceilings to start with. Time to get serious with this defense and stop relying on guys who "flashed potential". Get guys who can play football. There is a Green Bay Packer complex with this team right now under this draft and develop strategy (as Ha-Ha pointed out recently). You're trying to force development and players into roles they simply are not ready for. Your "depth" are street FA's and low/un-drafted rookies who shouldn't be on the field. I don’t value the off the ball LB position that highly. With a top 10 pick I’d rather go after a more valuable position such as Tackle, Corner, DE or DT. I disagree about James, Lee and Morrow I think they have shown enough to suggest they are worth a role in our defense and have shown that they can play football. However it is apparent they need a vet like a Bowman. Much like Smith would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daineraider Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Dessie said: I don’t value the off the ball LB position that highly. With a top 10 pick I’d rather go after a more valuable position such as Tackle, Corner, DE or DT. I disagree about James, Lee and Morrow I think they have shown enough to suggest they are worth a role in our defense and have shown that they can play football. However it is apparent they need a vet like a Bowman. Much like Smith would. We skipped on Foster last year and took a CB instead. Foster was graded(I know it’s just PFF) as a top 5 LB in the league this year. Conley didn’t really play and although his position may be more important, we really could have used Foster this year. Point is I don’t want to skip on Smith just because he plays IlB instead of CB. We really could use a leader in the middle of our D also. Take BPA regardless of position. If that happens to be a CB, OT, or DT then I’m good with it, but we have ignored the LB position for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Raider Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I think if we drafted Smith, it would be wise to bring back bowman so he can learn for a year or so and play will. On passing downs we could take out bowman and have smith and Morrow as our nickel lbs. Smith Bowman and Irvin would be a decent lb group. All three can blitz which could keep offenses on their toes. I would be elated with Chubb or Michel in the second. I think they can both have successfull careers. I know comps are cheap but my buddy compared Chubb to Mark Ingram and I can absolutely see that. Michel reminds me a little of shady McCoy. Prob get killed for saying that but I see a little of that in him. Both can catch, run over ppl, make cuts and break big runs. Not sure about Dez. I’m fine with cutting Roberts but would rather just keep crabs than bring Dez in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiderrocker18 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I would love Roquan Smith at 9/10. But if Minkah Fitzpatrick falls, not sure you can pass that up, especially given the uncertain futures of Smith, Amerson, Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinCity Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 TBH I am not that high on Roquan Smith. Yes, his speed seems phenomenal for a Linebacker, but equally I saw him getting washed out by Linemen in the first half of the Oklahoma game. I am not saying he won't be an effective pro, but picking in the top 10 I want a guy who shines - and yes, Foster last year was that guy. When I look at Smith I don't see the next Lewis, Kuechly etc I just see a guy that will be a pretty good to maybe very good Linebacker, and I just want more from a top-10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiderrocker18 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 i dont think amerson should be cut this summer... he's due a pretty manageable 6 mil. pretty sure smith is out the door, and i dont think it would be wise to dump both starting corners while hoping that conley will be healthy. i dont think you can spend 6 mil on a free agent corner in this market and improve on amerson. the decisions to be made in the secondary are also going to show how confident the new regime is in Obi. while we've all been dreaming of the Obi-Kujo safety duo, the new brass might not have the same blind confidence in Obi to come in and play starters snaps. i also have no clue what this team is going to do at WR. cooper is the only safe bet to make the team and he's coming off a garbage season. who will start outside opposite of cooper? we certainly dont have anybody who has earned that role. roberts hasn't cut it as a #3 and the only other receivers on our roster are patterson (definitely not a starter) and holton is a one trick pony. i've seen dez mentioned here, but his salary is too high. even if dallas absorbs his bonus money in a trade, his salary is still at 12.5 this year and next year. and he's a declining talent who is prone to being a headcase. thought we were moving away from crabtree for those same reasons? are we going to address RT? can Sharpe play that spot? so we're going to need to overhaul the WR group, probably need to make changes at RB (unknown if Lynch will be back or would want to coexist with Gruden), and continue to rework the defense at all 3 levels. im not seeing a quick fix and bounceback season barring some MAJOR hit acquisitions. everyone is thinking we can go right back to 2016 which was a season we won way too many close games that we may or may not have deserved (saints game extended by penalty, texans game with some awful spots given to houston). this is simply a very flawed roster and mckenzie is riding the coattails of the 2014 draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, SinCity said: TBH I am not that high on Roquan Smith. Yes, his speed seems phenomenal for a Linebacker, but equally I saw him getting washed out by Linemen in the first half of the Oklahoma game. I am not saying he won't be an effective pro, but picking in the top 10 I want a guy who shines - and yes, Foster last year was that guy. When I look at Smith I don't see the next Lewis, Kuechly etc I just see a guy that will be a pretty good to maybe very good Linebacker, and I just want more from a top-10 pick. 1 His strength is not shedding blocks, he's a phenomenal chase and cover guy who doesn't miss tackles. He compares very well to Lavonte David, who's been an anchor of Tampa's defense and a tackling/turnover machine. Rashaan Evans is a guy I've been watching and I also think he looks unbelievably good. I'd also take him at 9/10. Dude looks like a pro bowler. Also, if there was a sure thing Luke Keuchly/Ray Lewis, they would go top 5. An elite middle linebacker is one of the most impactful players on any defense. You can't expect any LB prospect to be a plug and play pro bowler for the next decade in order to be a high draft choice. That's ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, SinCity said: 5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: His strength is not shedding blocks, he's a phenomenal chase and cover guy who doesn't miss tackles. He compares very well to Lavonte David, who's been an anchor of Tampa's defense and a tackling/turnover machine. Perfect comparison. Smith is going to be a shop wrecker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinCity Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: His strength is not shedding blocks, he's a phenomenal chase and cover guy who doesn't miss tackles. He compares very well to Lavonte David, who's been an anchor of Tampa's defense and a tackling/turnover machine. Rashaan Evans is a guy I've been watching and I also think he looks unbelievably good. I'd also take him at 9/10. Dude looks like a pro bowler. Also, if there was a sure thing Luke Keuchly/Ray Lewis, they would go top 5. An elite middle linebacker is one of the most impactful players on any defense. You can't expect any LB prospect to be a plug and play pro bowler for the next decade in order to be a high draft choice. That's ludicrous. Yes, Lewis or Keuchly would be top-5 (you are right). I just don't see a top-10 player in Smith in the way that I do with Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, Bradley Chubb, SaQuon Barkley, Courtland Sutton etc at their respective positions - though I respect that some might - which is what makes these discussions such fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I too am not crazy high on Smith like lots of people are. I get that tacking on blockers isn't a strong suit of his, but he was getting killed early in the bowl game. They were running it directly at him and having great success. We need speed and sure tacklers so I wouldn't be pissed with him, I just don't see an elite prospect. Different players, but is he that much better than Foster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 22 hours ago, Rich7sena said: Weekly update. John Gruen edition: Irvin produced and you want to cut him? I'm rather have Crabtree than Dez... Dez is declining and that ego like TO. I would hate for Carr to have to deal with Marshawn and Dez in the huddle.. All those free agents would be nice.... so are corners would only be Prince and Conely? who would be nickle? Mcdonald who would be a slot wideout to Dez and Cooper? Holton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Irvin produced and you want to cut him? I'm rather have Crabtree than Dez... Dez is declining and that ego like TO. I would hate for Carr to have to deal with Marshawn and Dez in the huddle.. All those free agents would be nice.... so are corners would only be Prince and Conely? who would be nickle? Mcdonald who would be a slot wideout to Dez and Cooper? Holton Irvin wouldn't be a scheme fit in a balanced 4-3 unless he moves to the second level. I don't think he's worth his $8+ million price tag if he moves. I disagree on Crabtree>Dez. I believe Dez is still a top 10-15 receiver in the NFL and could benefit with Carr's play style. Is he a potential locker room distraction risk: yes. But he's also very talented. Even if he's only here for 2-3 years, he wold legitimately raise the ceiling of the offense. Starting corners would be: Amukamara, Conley, and Carrie. Patterson would be the 3rd receiver after Bryant and Cooper. These weekly mocks I do are just that: mocks. They're meant to introduce new names to the free agent/draft conversation. No need to take them so seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mct288 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 For WR:I'm all for keeping Crabtree and Cooper + adding someone. I'm keeping tabs on Randall Cobb. Due 12.6 mil this season, he is surely a cut candidate unless he stays and Jordy is gone. Although he might be a bit over the team's WR budget (I would expect Crabtree money if he's cut). If so, I'd like to see more of an outside guy brought in, letting Cooper work in the slot on 3+ WR sets. I'd be more into adding to the depth of the group and wouldn't be opposed to drafting a WR somewhere in the 2nd-4th round if no FAs are added, and one in the 4-6 range if there are. I see your weekly mock disclaimer. This post isn't to shoot you down, but to acknowledge that I agree with you that revamping the WR room is critical, and just giving my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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