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Steelers GM Kevin Colbert stepping down after draft


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55 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Rooney has been serving as team president since 2003. Prior to that he served on the board since 1989. He was literally born and raised around this football team and all of its operations. 

I don’t think experience is holding him back…

He is a lawyer and has been the Steeler's council.  That does not translate into scouting players and running the scouting department like DanR.

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1 hour ago, jebrick said:

He is a lawyer and has been the Steeler's council

So? He had also served on the board of directors over 30 years and been team president for 20 years. He was born into Steelers ownership. He has done and experienced more than just vetting paperwork. 

There’s no ownership ingrained in the game of football more than the Rooneys. Maybe the Maras, but I don’t know they’re structure anymore. Jerry Jones is an oil man. Kraft was in paper products, real estate, entertainment and a plethora of other things. Owners do not come up from being ball boys in an organization to becoming top dogs (which, funny enough about Rooney….). 

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

That does not translate into scouting players and running the scouting department like DanR.

Who says Art is scouting players or the running the scouting department? He will hire that person. If we are saying he isn’t qualified to hire that person….no owner in football is qualified to make a single hire then. 

I just don’t understand what him being a lawyer has to do with anything. 

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I’m sorry this blind faith in everything will work out and hopeful optimism that just getting into the playoffs is enough is getting quite old. ARII isn’t his dad or grandad and has overseen more problematic teams. Something kinda telling to me is that Ben talked about feeling the air of respect when DR walked in the door. Never said it for Art II. ARII is more Jerry Jones than Dan Rooney. 

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You seem to say that he would know how to pick a person to do a job that he has never done.  You seem to think the the Steeler Council is sitting in scouting meetings  and judging players. AR2 did not work for the Steelers until 1989 and then as a lawyer.

 DanR ran the personnel dept starting in 1969.  Dan knew what he would be looking for in a GM when he had to hire.  He knew what players the coaches looked for and how that translated into players.  There is a vast difference in knowledge of how the operation runs between Art2 and DanR

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17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

@43Mbut you called the process “laughably stupid” and thats based on pure speculation because we have very little to no information on what they are doing or have planned to do. 

Yes, its speculation on whether or not they will actually do it that way....but the idea of doing it that way still remains "laughably stupid".

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

We can even look at simple things that make sense in the whole process about NFL rules regarding the number of GM roles you can have on a team, that there are no teams with a vacancy at GM left, the fact that hired and involved are not the same, and that the number 1 question being asked by candidates during the interview is probably “will I have say this year?”.

We could even be semi-optimist and look at how in what could be a crucial off-season we have the opportunity to pick the brains of multiple executives across the league. 

All of this is just as speculative as what I said.

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

There’s nothing outside of speculation to suggest that they dont intend to have a GM chosen before free agency.

If the quote I saw was true, its a little more than just "speculation".

Youre hung up on the Steelers aspect of this.   Obviously, we are discussing the possibility of the Steelers doing it, but this is more about the practice itself being stupid....regardless of whether we do it that way or not.  

 

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

There’s nothing that suggests they won’t have any level of input.  There’s nothing to suggest that they are doing anything wrong at this point. But that’s why I mention the knee jerk reaction….the Steelers came up with that idea? Must be wrong. This GM hire isn’t going to reinvent the wheel. There won’t be some major ideological shift. I just flat don’t understand the level of concern right now. 

Well, based on this and previous discussions we have had, we are never going to agree on how this team is run.    You have alot more faith in Rooney and Tomlin than I do.

You have every right to be optimistic and feel how you want about where this team is and where it is going.   I dont share that optimism, and Ive given a litany of reasons why.

In regards to the new GM...whoever it is....THATS the problem.    This teams NEEDS a shift.   It NEEDS change...desperately.   Not just a continuation of the same old tired ideas which lead us nowhere.

Bottom line....if we hire a new GM within the next month, and they have a say in which direction we go....then the "laughably stupid" part of this becomes irrelevant.

However, given some of the decisions made thus far just in the past couple weeks (keeping Canada, promoting Austin, seeming lack of accountability over 2021, etc)....there is good reason why Im not high on their ability to make good decisions with staff.   

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If the Steelers target a QB, that is going to be one of if not the single most important decisions the team will have made since 2004. They are looking to a hire a new GM AFTER they will have potentially made this decision on top of letting Colbert and Tomlin decide how to use the most cap space they've had since, well, the cap was put in place. 

I don't see how anyone could defend this process and decision making. I'm all for taking your time and identifying the right person for a job like this. You ARE looking to hire a guy who can man the ship for the next decade or more, if it works out. But why would anyone think this team is going to attract top tier candidates when the next GM is going to be dealing with the aftermath of critical decisions he had no say in? if Tombert picks the next QB, the new GM is going to be stuck with that guy for probably about 3 seasons if not longer. Yea, I'm sure outside hires are lining up in droves to take this job...

The Steelers, to me, are going through the motions of turning over stones by interviewing outside candidates. The reality is, they're going to do what they've done with every other hire this off-season and stay in-house. They are in love with this idea they have in their heads of who they are. The people running things are the sorts of guys who love the smell of their own farts. They've accomplished next to nothing for the last decade, but they are determined to stay the course.

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There are two questions that continually come to mind when some of this negativity stuff goes off the deep end. 1) How much NFL outside of Pittsburgh is really being consumed and 2) what are your expectations?

@jebrickI'm just going to keep this short. Rooney has far more operational experience in the NFL than any future owner of this team. Point blank, period. Look across the landscape of the NFL what what the owners come from as their chosen life's work. The next owner of the Steelers, if not a Rooney, will be a tech mogul whose scouting experience comes from playing Madden 08 on his Xbox. So I don't understand the continued "but he is a lawyer". So what? What is your expectation of owners/CEOs? 

@warfelg, I just don't get the comparison to Jerry Jones. He is the decision maker and GM of his team. Rooney has for 3+ years talked openly about committing to running the ball and doing it better and we just keep going backwards on both accounts. I think you have a better case for no one listening to Rooney or him being hands off rather than being Jerry Jones where his fingers are literally all over everything. 

@43MMy comments regarding the GM search are not about optimism, but more about what you are judging this off of. Where are the examples of GM's in good standing having their role drastically changed during the current cycles fa and draft process? Who are the teams that adopted outside voices into their system with in-place front office folks 7/8ths of the way through the process?

Calling something "laughably stupid" alludes to the idea that they are so drastically off-course of what normal/good looks like and doing things that it make no sense to those models. The normal GM cycle across the NFL is that a GM is fired. This isn't that. Our GM, who is generally considered a top 3/5 GM from outside Steelers walls, is in good standing, has a solid track record, and is in the middle/end of the GM's yearly cycle. Ozzie Newsome is a recent example. But he finished off his final draft and transferred his GM tasks during the full next season to an in-house candidate and is STILL functioning with the team to this day. Maybe the Packers? But Ted Thompson stepped aside in large part due to performance (look at his final three drafts). Maybe you can help me fill in these historical blanks, because in going through each GM -- Newsome is really the only one I found that also chose to leave in good standing and on his own. And in many ways, we are cycling exactly like them -- and if we choose internally, it will be exactly like the Ravens. 

So that's my issue here, 43. It has nothing to do with optimism or that I think things will be fine just because. It has to do with that you are basing GOOD off of to the point that you can call this process laughably stupid. 

You just want change and at this point any change seems like it would do. With that, I really wouldn't disagree. But where I mentioned knee jerk reactio is it feels like some of you guys will hate any decision because it's a decision the Steelers are making - I do not think you have actually thought the process through. You are fine with the answer being the Steeler are wrong, even if there is no evidence to back that up. 

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2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

@43MMy comments regarding the GM search are not about optimism, but more about what you are judging this off of. Where are the examples of GM's in good standing having their role drastically changed during the current cycles fa and draft process?  Who are the teams that adopted outside voices into their system with in-place front office folks 7/8ths of the way through the process?

First you have an issue with me insinuating the Steelers are going to do it that way when there is no proof.   Then I clarify its that specific process I have an issue with and now youre defending that.   Seems like you're gatekeeping and trying to preemptively defend it in case it happens.   Hmm.

Its based off common sense.  Why should a GM who is leaving have a say in the future direction of the team when they arent even going to be here, while the incoming GM has little to perhaps NO say?    If they are bringing in a new GM, he shouldnt have to be forced to build with players he may not even be high on.     I dont necessarily have a problem with Colbert sticking around and lending guidance and suggestions to a new GM, but in the end, if an incoming GM isnt part of the process of building this team going into next year...it is absolutely, 100%  "laughably stupid" IMO.    

And where are there other examples of GMs who arent going to be with the team the following year making personnel decisions for the team going forward?    Not saying it hasnt ever happened, but most GMs who retire in good standing have a successor internally ready to step in....which is quite different than hiring someone on the outside.    If you're hiring an outside guy, you need to find that guy early in the offseason.    Again, find some examples of departing GMs who make all the decisions during an offseason, then just handed it all off to a new GM who had little to no say.

We will see what happens, and I will comment more from there.

 

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Calling something "laughably stupid" alludes to the idea that they are so drastically off-course of what normal/good looks like and doing things that it make no sense to those models. The normal GM cycle across the NFL is that a GM is fired. This isn't that. Our GM, who is generally considered a top 3/5 GM from outside Steelers walls, is in good standing, has a solid track record, and is in the middle/end of the GM's yearly cycle. Ozzie Newsome is a recent example. But he finished off his final draft and transferred his GM tasks during the full next season to an in-house candidate and is STILL functioning with the team to this day.

The bolded is key to everything Im saying here.

DeCosta was a long time scout and protege of Ozzie.   He learned directly from Ozzie for years and years.   He had Ozzies ear and I guarantee, the year Ozzie retired, DeCosta had a major hand in who they drafted.   It was a completely seamless transition.

Thats quite different from what COULD happen here, where the outgoing GM is making all the personnel decisions while the incoming GM just has to make due with whatever decisions are made....even if they are decisions he wouldn't have made for the team.

Again, we'll see what happens, but those are two completely different situations.   The issue isnt Colbert sticking around until after the draft....the issue is how much say the new GM will have.

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And in many ways, we are cycling exactly like them -- and if we choose internally, it will be exactly like the Ravens. 

Okay....if that happens, so be it.

DeCosta was the heir apparent under Ozzie for a long time, though.   

With as many GMs as we are interviewing, it doesnt look like this team has anyone internally they are fully confident with.

So no...it wont be "exactly" like the Ravens....even if they hire someone internally.

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You just want change and at this point any change seems like it would do. With that, I really wouldn't disagree. But where I mentioned knee jerk reactio is it feels like some of you guys will hate any decision because it's a decision the Steelers are making - I do not think you have actually thought the process through. You are fine with the answer being the Steeler are wrong, even if there is no evidence to back that up. 

Uhh....what "evidence" have YOU provided to refute my points?

Your best argument was about Ozzie/DeCosta, which would be fine if it was ACTUALLY the same situation.....but its not, and could also be the exact opposite of that situation.

One last time....

My entire issue is with us POTENTIALLY bringing in a new GM late in the process, who wont have much of a say in the team building process going into 2022.   Essentially, it will be Colbert and Tomlin making every decision during a rebuilding offseason, and the incoming GM is pretty much just told to make due with those decisions, even if he isnt fully on board with it.

If....IF it happens like that....then yes, I believe its laughably stupid.

That doesnt mean that there is no way it can work out.    It just means that I think its a horrid way to handle bringing in a new GM....especially when this team is clearly in a rebuilding phase.

Im not going to keep debating this RIGHT NOW because it's clear we arent going to agree.   And that's perfectly fine.    

When we hire a GM and have more information, then I will revisit this conversation.

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2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

@warfelg, I just don't get the comparison to Jerry Jones. He is the decision maker and GM of his team. Rooney has for 3+ years talked openly about committing to running the ball and doing it better and we just keep going backwards on both accounts. I think you have a better case for no one listening to Rooney or him being hands off rather than being Jerry Jones where his fingers are literally all over everything

It seems ARII is more interested in being seen and heard in discussions than his dad who was merely a tiebreaker. ARII does not give the same vibes the Dan did. I wish there were an easier way to find out but I feel like ARII has been in more press conferences the last 4 years than Dan was from 2000-passing. 

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21 hours ago, 43M said:

Seems like you're gatekeeping and trying to preemptively defend it in case it happens

I am in no way a gate keeper. Heck, I have not even taken a side in this matter. It just goes back to my original comment -- I feel like some of you are just programed into believing everything the Steelers do is wrong. Like here, we have zero information on what they have done, are doing, or will do and there is no evidence (in either direction) to dictate if what they are doing is right or wrong. And at the same time, we will probably NEVER get the info to define what happened (if and when the GM was noticed, if they had say, what powers they carry into the future, etc). But the judgement was immediately -- they are being dumb. 

I have a pretty good feeling I can already describe your feelings right now about things that could happen. If they hire Hunt/Khan -- it's just more of the same. Hire outside -- well, he didn't have a say in the future. Hire someone we don't know about -- well, he is just a puppet. Hire a GM -- Yeah, but Rooney is a just a lawyer (sorry, that ones just a little joke for myself 😎).

If I was a GM candidate, my first question would be "with the way things are structured with KC set to step aside post draft and the NFL being a production based league whose production I would ultimately be judge on....what say or influence will I have on this years draft?". If the Steelers answer this question in a such away that it eliminates the best candidates, I would be pissed. If they have 3 candidates, 2 from the outside and Khan/Hunt....but they are ordered in that way and the question of control in 2022 draft causes the Steelers to pick a worse candidate to avoid that...I would be pissed. I would agree that those would be laughably stupid scenarios. 

But as of now, I don't know anything about what they will do, and the Steelers FO is very good about keeping their mouths shut (with 2 solid examples of that in the last month itself), so I am not sure we will ever know anything. So my real feeling about what is happening is 🤷‍♂️

 

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