Malfatron Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: How do you feel about Josh Allen? On 1/24/2022 at 7:01 PM, AngusMcFife said: Will Lamar get paid this off-season? After watching Josh Allen ball out in a loss to Mahomes, I think it would be fair to ask Lamar to take a contract similar to Allen (6 years, $100 million guaranteed, $260 million total). In the end, I think Allen's contract will help the Ravens FO negotiate with Lamar. Would it be reasonable for Lamar to demand for a bigger contract than Allen? I don't think so, given that Lamar's numbers declined for 2 straight seasons, and Allen has been going deeper in the playoffs than Lamar. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: I can understand the case for LeBron based on his longevity (like Brady), but Jordan's scorching hot peak from 86-93 is so overwhelming I don't think LeBron can surpass him. MJ from 1986-1993: 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 7x 1st Team All-NBA, 1x DPOY, 6x All-Defensive Team LeBron from 2009-2016: 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 8x 1st Team All-NBA, 6x All-Defensive Team I'm not arguing MJ over LeBron. I agree that Jordan is the best perimeter player ever. However, using "All-Pro" or "All-NBA" as some trump card in a debate is a losing argument. Those are completely subjective and change yearly for no apparent reason. Also, a player can win MVP one year and not win it the next even if they played just as well. The "story" of a player drives those results almost as much the play on the field/court. For example: Brady played better in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2020, and 2021 than Manning did in 2008 or 2009. Manning won 2 MVPs and Brady won none, yet you want to hang your hat on those being better because of some media driven story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: How do you feel about Josh Allen? Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just now, AngusMcFife said: True, he played for a great organization with a top-5 all time coach. Didn't you say Dan Marino was the greatest and your favorite player growing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Which one? The QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Which one? The Buccaneers center edit: oh my bad Counselor was talking about the QB Edited January 30, 2022 by Trojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pf9 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 This news will make the in-state battle between the Jaguars and Buccaneers in 2023 less interesting. Was looking forward to seeing Brady against Lawrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Brady's postseason passer rating is 90.4, and Manning's is 87.4. That's a marginal difference, especially considering old Manning had a debilitating neck injury that dragged down his performance the last couple years. Why don't you post the rest of their numbers? Go ahead, do it. Break it down on a per game basis, too. Manning's numbers are grossly inflated, like his regular season stats, from a few performances where he racked up TD's and yards against hapless AFCW teams. And Brady is still going to come out on top of this statistical analysis by a lot. Compare the number of 1 and done's, and the number of times Manning's team lost while favored. Compare their Super Bowl performances because even Brady's weakest Super Bowl victory performance trumps Manning's two "victories." And none of Brady's MVP's were awarded to him as a lifetime achievement award like Manning's was against the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Somebody: “Hey Tom, you should leak that you are retiring and then deny that you are retiring right before the first Championship weekend you are not playing in for like a decade Brady: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just now, seminoles1 said: MJ from 1986-1993: 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 7x 1st Team All-NBA, 1x DPOY, 6x All-Defensive Team LeBron from 2009-2016: 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 8x 1st Team All-NBA, 6x All-Defensive Team I'm not arguing MJ over LeBron. I agree that Jordan is the best perimeter player ever. However, using "All-Pro" or "All-NBA" as some trump card in a debate is a losing argument. Those are completely subjective and change yearly for no apparent reason. Also, a player can win MVP one year and not win it the next even if they played just as well. The "story" of a player drives those results almost as much the play on the field/court. It is true that All-Pro or All-NBA can be misleading. I would not tally up All Pros as exclusive evidence that someone is better or worse. In the case of Brady, though, I believe his lack of All Pros is indicative of the fact that he never consistently elevated himself above his peers. Quote For example: Brady played better in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2020, and 2021 than Manning did in 2008 or 2009. Manning won 2 MVPs and Brady won none, yet you want to hang your hat on those being better because of some media driven story? Well, firstly, there was a noticeable increase in passing efficiency following 2009 following the changes regarding defenseless player rules. So all passing numbers in the 2010s will be inflated compared to the previous decade. Secondly, I think Manning's MVPs were in part due to the (I believe correct) perception that his team was somewhat deteriorating around him, but he was still playing at an extremely high level. MVPs are also QB awards that are often given to the QB on the team with the best record. I think All Pros are bit more telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Trojan said: Didn't you say Dan Marino was the greatest and your favorite player growing up? Yes he was my fave. But lets face it, Shula banked those two Super Bowls early on and was coasting and enjoying life in Miami for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, Scoundrel said: The QB I mean, he improved a tremendous amount and should now be considered a top QB in the league. But it will be interesting to see how he does without Daboll at OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Malfatron said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: It is true that All-Pro or All-NBA can be misleading. I would not tally up All Pros as exclusive evidence that someone is better or worse. In the case of Brady, though, I believe his lack of All Pros is indicative of the fact that he never consistently elevated himself above his peers. Oh, so they're subjective, but not in the case of Brady. Got it. 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Well, firstly, there was a noticeable increase in passing efficiency following 2009 following the changes regarding defenseless player rules. So all passing numbers in the 2010s will be inflated compared to the previous decade. Secondly, I think Manning's MVPs were in part due to the (I believe correct) perception that his team was somewhat deteriorating around him, but he was still playing at an extremely high level. MVPs are also QB awards that are often given to the QB on the team with the best record. I think All Pros are bit more telling. You think the defenseless receiver rule is what inflated numbers? You think there was THAT big of a difference between 2008-09 and 2011-12 because of an extra flag? We're talking about 2 seasons. Again...story. Manning was awarded MVP because of a story, not just his play. All-Pro just reflects MVP. It's a QB award as you said, so whoever wins MVP is named 1st Team All-Pro. It's the same voters, so you can't use one without the other, and you've already agreed that All-Pro is subjective. Oh wait, sorry, subjective except for in Brady's case. That just shows his lack of dominance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: Why don't you post the rest of their numbers? Go ahead, do it. Break it down on a per game basis, too. Manning's numbers are grossly inflated, like his regular season stats, from a few performances where he racked up TD's and yards against hapless AFCW teams. And Brady is still going to come out on top of this statistical analysis by a lot. Compare the number of 1 and done's, and the number of times Manning's team lost while favored. Compare their Super Bowl performances because even Brady's weakest Super Bowl victory performance trumps Manning's two "victories." And none of Brady's MVP's were awarded to him as a lifetime achievement award like Manning's was against the Bears. You don't have to convince me that Brady has had a lot more success in the playoffs. I'm just trying to evaluate the two players based on their skill, not their team accomplishments, which are heavily influenced by the quality of their teammates and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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