Head Coaching Ideas...

[whodatworm23]

Man... watching Joey B bring the Bengals to the Superbowl in year 2 got me thinking. We need to get a young signal caller and start developing him. However, if we are going to draft a young quarterback do you really trust Carmichael to be the guy to develop him?

 

Most want Dennis Allen as HC but if he's not does not mean he won't be DC. What if the Saints were able to bring in New Orleans born Eric Bieniemy from the Chiefs as the new HC and keep DA in place at DC and Carmichael at OC. Allow Bieniemy and Carmichael to combine ideas from both Sean Payton and Andy Reid style of thinking offensively and together develop a young QB like Malik Willis, Matt Corral or Kenny Pickett while allowing DA to continue doing what he's doing defensively.

 

Kinda seems to be the best route or am I wrong?

 

 

WHODAT

[Mid Iowa]

I'm trying to look at all these coaching candidates and decide "why were they successful" or even "they were successful in spite of...".

Bieniemy - He's got Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Hardman as weapons, and a pretty solid O-line. Backed by Spags defense which has been fairly okay.
So, with weapons like that, he should be successful, right?

Leftwich - He's had Brady, Gronk (arguably the best QB/TE tandem, maybe ever), Evans, Godwin, Fornette, the best RT in the game. And a smokin' defense.
So, "see above sentance"

Flores - Had to work with Tua (not great), Gesiki TE (is good), his best WR is a rookie (Jalen Waddel), and no real RB to speak of.
His defense is nearly nameless, basically middle of the road to just barely upper 1/3 in almost all categories, and he pulled the team out of the garbage heap and was 1 win away from the playoffs.

That's a pretty good job.

Dennis Allen - He put together a really good defense, despite the micro manager Payton has been known to be with his DC's. I have no idea what he's capable of on offense. Maybe he becomes the HC, and we hire Leftwich as the OC with the idea of grooming him into DC.

Allen's failed HC experience was with the Raiders. Let's be honest, who's succeeded there in the past 20 years? Only Gruden about 20 years ago.

So I'm kinda narrowing down my faves to Allen or Flores.

[whodatworm23]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:16 AM, Mid Iowa said:

I'm trying to look at all these coaching candidates and decide "why were they successful" or even "they were successful in spite of...".

Bieniemy - He's got Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Hardman as weapons, and a pretty solid O-line. Backed by Spags defense which has been fairly okay.
So, with weapons like that, he should be successful, right?

Leftwich - He's had Brady, Gronk (arguably the best QB/TE tandem, maybe ever), Evans, Godwin, Fornette, the best RT in the game. And a smokin' defense.
So, "see above sentance"

Flores - Had to work with Tua (not great), Gesiki TE (is good), his best WR is a rookie (Jalen Waddel), and no real RB to speak of.
His defense is nearly nameless, basically middle of the road to just barely upper 1/3 in almost all categories, and he pulled the team out of the garbage heap and was 1 win away from the playoffs.

That's a pretty good job.

Dennis Allen - He put together a really good defense, despite the micro manager Payton has been known to be with his DC's. I have no idea what he's capable of on offense. Maybe he becomes the HC, and we hire Leftwich as the OC with the idea of grooming him into DC.

Allen's failed HC experience was with the Raiders. Let's be honest, who's succeeded there in the past 20 years? Only Gruden about 20 years ago.

So I'm kinda narrowing down my faves to Allen or Flores.

I'm actually back to DA or Glenn...

 

DA because I feel hes earned the chance to lead this team. Your absolutely right, he had zero chance in Oakland. He took over a terrible defense here and has built it up to back to back top 10 rankings as a unit. Thats highly impressive. In his one showing as a HC here he shut out Tom Brady on prime time and won with Hill at QB and all the injuries... once again, highly impressive.

 

I feel its DAs job to lose... but the one candidate I could see impressing Loomis enough to get the job is Aaron Glenn. Glenn is extremely respected inside the Saints building and is revered by Saints brass as a leader of men who relates to the modern player. Glenn will be a HC one day, he's a Parcells deciple just like Payton. Loomis could have the foresight as he did with Payton and think that while DA is the best hire for the short term, Glenn maybe the best hire for the Saints in the longterm.

[Jlowe22]

DA won't hang around much longer as DC anyway.  He's earned another shot at HC and it might as well be here.  I could think of worse hires, like the entire rest of the list.

I've always been an offense guy though and it'll be strange to watch this team turn a 180. 

[JMG5]

Allen promoted, as expected.

[whodatworm23]

2 hours ago, JMG5 said:

Allen promoted, as expected.

DA as coach means that the culture remains in tact as with the staff. Doubt they would hire Allen then retool the staff. Likely means Carmichael at OC, Rizzi at STC and Nielson at DC.

 

Top 3 questions now to me would be as follows...

 

1. Who's the quarterback? 

Do the Saints resign Winston, draft a you guy or sign a veteran?

 

2. Can they resign Terron Armstead?

How could they hire DA to preserve culture and then let the guy that Sean Payton mentioned by name as one of the best leaders he's ever had in his retirement speech walk out the door in FA? I get the injuries but he's still one of the best tackles in football and Saints value o-lineman and clearly thier current culture which Armstead is a MAJOR part of.

 

3. What will Marcus Williams cost?

With DA as the HC now, no doubt Williams will be the top priority this offseason. Hes the key to Allen's defensive coverages on the back end with his range and ability. He was the Saints franchise player for a reason and with DAs promotion his value only grew.

[Mid Iowa]

Looks like we might be looking for a new #1 running back. This Kamara thing isn't looking good.

[Mid Iowa]

@whodatworm23yes, I'm also excited that DA is moving into the position. I'm really excited that he'll control that mobbing defense!

[JMG5]

3 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

DA as coach means that the culture remains in tact as with the staff. Doubt they would hire Allen then retool the staff. Likely means Carmichael at OC, Rizzi at STC and Nielson at DC.

Not necessarily. Looks like DA is looking to shake up the offensive staff.

[Jlowe22]

19 hours ago, JMG5 said:

Not necessarily. Looks like DA is looking to shake up the offensive staff.

Wonder what that's about.  I had thought years ago that it was just a matter of time until Carmichael got a HC opportunity somewhere, but over the years he seems like a guy that doesn't want the responsibility.  I don't blame him, especially with the kind of offense we're likely to field for a while.

I remember his first time calling plays without Payton, the 62-7 beatdown of the Colts in 2011.

[Mid Iowa]

On 2/8/2022 at 7:39 PM, Jlowe22 said:

Wonder what that's about.  I had thought years ago that it was just a matter of time until Carmichael got a HC opportunity somewhere, but over the years he seems like a guy that doesn't want the responsibility.  I don't blame him, especially with the kind of offense we're likely to field for a while.

I remember his first time calling plays without Payton, the 62-7 beatdown of the Colts in 2011.

I think we're starting to realize just how good Brees was up until about 3-4 years ago. And even then, he was still better than most.

Most of our recent playoff losses have been because the offense couldn't get going until it was basically too late, and then the defense running out of gas. Possible exception is the Rams no call on the obvious p.i., but our offense struggled.

[Dome]

40 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

I think we're starting to realize just how good Brees was up until about 3-4 years ago. And even then, he was still better than most.

In Brees' final two seasons we went 8-1 without him.. he went 17-6 in the games he did play. So IDK this idea that he was better than most.

It seems like we were better off with Teddy Brokeanother and Taysom "Fullback" Hill. Two guys that demonstrably just aren't good. What does that say about Brees?

 

 

And y'all remember Jameis was playing just as well as Brady or Rodgers through 7 games, right? And that was without Mike Thomas even stepping onto the field. 

 

If anything, I realized how great of a staff we had, not how great Brees was. I think Brees hero ball actually hurt us a lot more that what we realized at the time. He had all the talent and acumen you could need, but he couldn't help himself from trying to do more than he was capable of.

[Jlowe22]

9 hours ago, Dome said:

In Brees' final two seasons we went 8-1 without him.. he went 17-6 in the games he did play. So IDK this idea that he was better than most.

It seems like we were better off with Teddy Brokeanother and Taysom "Fullback" Hill. Two guys that demonstrably just aren't good. What does that say about Brees?

 

 

And y'all remember Jameis was playing just as well as Brady or Rodgers through 7 games, right? And that was without Mike Thomas even stepping onto the field. 

 

If anything, I realized how great of a staff we had, not how great Brees was. I think Brees hero ball actually hurt us a lot more that what we realized at the time. He had all the talent and acumen you could need, but he couldn't help himself from trying to do more than he was capable of.

That's not all that fair a comparison to make though, because the defense largely balled out during Brees' absence and the offense was statistically worse during Bridgewater and Taysom's stints.  And of course this year, but you can chalk that up to injuries and covid if you want.  Brees even got some MVP votes in 2018.

And Jameis looked good for the most part, but comparing him to BRady and Rodgers absolutely not.

Edit, I agree he hurt us in the postseason though, and he did seem to play more hero ball in the postseason.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Jlowe22

[Mid Iowa]

23 hours ago, Dome said:

In Brees' final two seasons we went 8-1 without him.. he went 17-6 in the games he did play. So IDK this idea that he was better than most.

It seems like we were better off with Teddy Brokeanother and Taysom "Fullback" Hill. Two guys that demonstrably just aren't good. What does that say about Brees?

And y'all remember Jameis was playing just as well as Brady or Rodgers through 7 games, right? And that was without Mike Thomas even stepping onto the field. 

If anything, I realized how great of a staff we had, not how great Brees was. I think Brees hero ball actually hurt us a lot more that what we realized at the time. He had all the talent and acumen you could need, but he couldn't help himself from trying to do more than he was capable of.

I appreciate this, and I'll just say that there is no replacement for certain types of leadership. Brees brought focus, clarity, and 20 years of film experience to a group of basically unproven cast off QBs.

So, his stats may not look great, but his coaching and mentorship abilities were certainly 2nd to none.

I agree, Brees was scattered and scared in the playoffs the last 2 trys.

[Dome]

15 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

And Jameis looked good for the most part, but comparing him to BRady and Rodgers absolutely not.

You're right.. not brady. He started the year hot.

I remember later in the season in NFL gen there was a Brady/Rodgers MVP debate thread we had some fun extrapolating Winston's stats. They extrapolated over 17 games better than Brady and Rodgers did at that point in the year, I demanded the Crab King be named MVP.

Obviously that wasn't to be taken seriously, it was just for fun... but looking how well our defense played down the stretch, I think it's likely that Winston would have been in the running for MVP had he remained healthy... definitely more than likely if Thomas didn't have his setback (which I still am not sure wasn't just the team giving Thomas the year off to subside him once Winston went down).

 

But Rodgers start? 221 attempts for 1710 yards - 7.7 ypa - 15:3 thu 7 games
Winston: 161 attempts for 1170 yards - 7.2 ypa - 14:3 thru 6.5 games

 

Now look who Rodgers was throwing to, and then look who Jameis was throwing to 😵

If only Rodgers threw TDs as often as Jameis... then it would be a good comparison 😉

 

 

Of course the italics is just tongue in cheek sarcasm, but my initial point stands

Am I saying they're comparable players? No. Rodgers is one of the best QBs to ever play.

I'm saying Jamies started out the year having just as good a year as Rodgers. It's not just a stats based argument. He had the team at 5-2 with notable wins over Rodgers and Brady twice, while maintaining similar efficiency with notably inferior weapons.

 

I can't really include this in the comp, but it's worth mentioning. We were supposed to be cellar dwellers without Brees. And Winston didn't have a WR corps, Micheal Thomas was iced up the entire time. And his OL was adjusting to playing an offense that asked them to block a bit longer than they're used to, we all saw them struggling. In the preseason we had fans calling for Taysom Hill to start Week 1 😄 the disrespect. If he didn't get hurt, we'd all be pissed off we found our QBotF and couldn't sign him to his $35m a year contract this season (actually we probably could lol).