Robb_K Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said: Cousins isn't going anywhere. Other than cap relief, it makes no sense at all. If you think a guy who worked with Jared Goff last year and then made the Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford this year doesn't understand the importance of not getting rid of a Quarterback unless you can get a better one, I don't know what to tell you. I think O'Connell likely looks at what Cousins did this past season and thinks "If Mike Zimmer got that out of those guys, imagine what I can do!" And he's right to think so. There isn't a QB in this draft that looks like a franchise QB. Cousins already is. This doesn't even get to the facts that if Rodgers and Adams leave Green Bay that the Vikings are easily the favorite to win the division. Trying to win with Cousins at QB and revamping this year's inadequate defence a lot less than could be done with Cousins gone, or kicking much more of Cousins' Cap hit down the road again, will retard The Vikings' revamping, youthanising and strengthalising of their roster over the next 5-6 years, thus hurting and delaying their chances to get better in the long run just for a possible Division title. The draft that they should jump on to move up and get their new QB of the future is 2023, in which, there are several potential franchise QBs, one of whom they'll have a better chance of dropping in their laps, or probably a shorter move-up to obtain. They can possibly use the extra draft choice from trading cousins in that move-up, and losing that one would be better than not getting one and having to use one of their top draft choices needed to help rebuild the defence, to do so. I think it is a much better strategy to get rid of the curse of Cousins' debilitating Cap hit, and get as much draft capital for him as possible, after his best year, in a year when there are more NFL teams desperate for a better-than-average level NFL starting QB than ever, than to try to make a playoff run with a a disasterously depleted roster that will be hard pressed to win more than one playoff game in The Wild Card Round, and will then take longer to revamp. The Vikings trading off Cousins, and letting Pierce walk, and letting other high-cost veterans go, and trading off a few other aging veterans for draft capital can, if O'Connell can get the newly-drafted QB in good playing status quickly, and having several of the new defensive draftees ready to contribute, can possibly be ready to win a game or 2 in the playoffs in 2023, and maybe be ready for a deep playoff run in 2024, with a 10-15 year franchise QB at the helm, IF things go well. Keeping Cousins and other aging veterans in 2022 will retard their youth movement, and might hurt them, to some degree, with The Salary Cap for 2-3 years more. I think that is a bad move, and probably was one of the factors that led The Vikings to choose O'Connell over Harbaugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 This means I have to cheer for the Rams in the Superbowl. No way I'm cheering against my coach! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 39 minutes ago, Robb_K said: Trying to win with Cousins at QB and revamping this year's inadequate defence a lot less than could be done with Cousins gone, or kicking much more of Cousins' Cap hit down the road again, will retard The Vikings' revamping, youthanising and strengthalising of their roster over the next 5-6 years, thus hurting and delaying their chances to get better in the long run just for a possible Division title. The draft that they should jump on to move up and get their new QB of the future is 2023, in which, there are several potential franchise QBs, one of whom they'll have a better chance of dropping in their laps, or probably a shorter move-up to obtain. They can possibly use the extra draft choice from trading cousins in that move-up, and losing that one would be better than not getting one and having to use one of their top draft choices needed to help rebuild the defence, to do so. I think it is a much better strategy to get rid of the curse of Cousins' debilitating Cap hit, and get as much draft capital for him as possible, after his best year, in a year when there are more NFL teams desperate for a better-than-average level NFL starting QB than ever, than to try to make a playoff run with a a disasterously depleted roster that will be hard pressed to win more than one playoff game in The Wild Card Round, and will then take longer to revamp. The Vikings trading off Cousins, and letting Pierce walk, and letting other high-cost veterans go, and trading off a few other aging veterans for draft capital can, if O'Connell can get the newly-drafted QB in good playing status quickly, and having several of the new defensive draftees ready to contribute, can possibly be ready to win a game or 2 in the playoffs in 2023, and maybe be ready for a deep playoff run in 2024, with a 10-15 year franchise QB at the helm, IF things go well. Keeping Cousins and other aging veterans in 2022 will retard their youth movement, and might hurt them, to some degree, with The Salary Cap for 2-3 years more. I think that is a bad move, and probably was one of the factors that led The Vikings to choose O'Connell over Harbaugh. Coaches and players want to win. If the Flores lawsuit is making anything clear, it's that coaches want to win. Especially in their first year. Cousins gives this team the best chance to win this year if he is extended. He likely gives them the best chance to win next year too. Everyone thinks the grass is greener with a rookie QB in NEXT year's draft. There are no Lawrence/Luck can't miss prospects next year. If the Vikings move Cousins, they get a lot of cap relief. Which they will presumably use to bring in some FA talent. Which makes the team better than it would be without just without Cousins. Which means they'd probably still win 7-9 games in a weak division. Which means they still won't have a top 5 pick. Which means they'll probably end up with the 2nd or 3rd rated QB in another suspect class. This is how you become the Jets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, wcblack34 said: Coaches and players want to win. If the Flores lawsuit is making anything clear, it's that coaches want to win. Especially in their first year. Cousins gives this team the best chance to win this year if he is extended. He likely gives them the best chance to win next year too. Everyone thinks the grass is greener with a rookie QB in NEXT year's draft. There are no Lawrence/Luck can't miss prospects next year. If the Vikings move Cousins, they get a lot of cap relief. Which they will presumably use to bring in some FA talent. Which makes the team better than it would be without just without Cousins. Which means they'd probably still win 7-9 games in a weak division. Which means they still won't have a top 5 pick. Which means they'll probably end up with the 2nd or 3rd rated QB in another suspect class. This is how you become the Jets. Or, Cincy.......It isn't so black and white as discussions make it seem. I can see both arguments making sense....all I want is a commitment to the plan. Either be the Rams and go for it, or be Cincy and don't for a couple years. But commit, don't go half way. Going half way is how you end up the Vikings the past few years....middling. (that said, the Vikings did mostly go for it, injuries killed them on D, and coaching held them back also). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said: Or, Cincy.......It isn't so black and white as discussions make it seem. I can see both arguments making sense....all I want is a commitment to the plan. Either be the Rams and go for it, or be Cincy and don't for a couple years. But commit, don't go half way. Going half way is how you end up the Vikings the past few years....middling. (that said, the Vikings did mostly go for it, injuries killed them on D, and coaching held them back also). Cincy had the #1 pick and the pick of the litter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, wcblack34 said: Cincy had the #1 pick and the pick of the litter. I'm not sure how that says "never be bad".......or "you will end up the Jets"...which is what you posted. You posted if they trade everyone off, they'll be the Jets. I'm saying that isn't necessarily true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said: And the other guy says to bet on the extension. Next. The other guy is probably a casual fan & not even a reporter who's plugged in. Darren may not be the most sourced out guy, but i promise you he knows more than that other guy. And Darren was all over KO being the favorite from weeks ago & was all over the GM search. If Doogie says it, you listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Costello Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Or, Cincy.......It isn't so black and white as discussions make it seem. I can see both arguments making sense....all I want is a commitment to the plan. Either be the Rams and go for it, or be Cincy and don't for a couple years. But commit, don't go half way. Going half way is how you end up the Vikings the past few years....middling. (that said, the Vikings did mostly go for it, injuries killed them on D, and coaching held them back also). Could not agree with you more. Cinncy was 6-25-1 in their first two years with Taylor and maybe one or two plays away from going home in the first round of the playoffs this year. If not for Burrow activating his super powers and putting the team on his back, this whole narrative about Zac Taylor wouldn't be up for discussion. The flip side to that coin is how fast McVay turned around the Rams. And that's how I see us, we're a few key acquisitions away from getting right back to the playoffs. But we're going to have shift some key things around to do so. ( Kirk's contract being the elephant in the room) So which is it? Are we rebuilding or retooling? The team needs to be ALL in on one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Frank Costello said: So which is it? Are we rebuilding or retooling? The team needs to be ALL in on one or the other. Only a sith deal in absolutes 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 hours ago, vike daddy said: and Adofo-Mensah is 6'4. I should go be his assistant or something....he and I would see eye to eye every day! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCountryEvo Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I think we have to set aside our pre-conceived notions about Cousins, the front office, and the coaches perspective that we have had engrained in us for so long. Kwesi is n analytics/numbers guy, and while he will probably be leaning on football people for a lot of things, we can’t expect things to be the same. Same with O’Connell: he has seen how QB’s of different talent levels can perform with talent around them, and he has seen things like what has happened with Cincy and Taylor, where a potentially generational QB makes a huge difference. I’m not a Kirk hater, but definitely not a Kirk fanboy. The main thing with Kirk is that Cap hit, and it just isn’t acceptable. You have to imagine that KAM and KOC are going to look at the offense and plug and play what increases and decreases in performance we would see with any available QB out there, and to be honest, I think when you start stepping down in QB talent, the drop off at least initially isn’t that tremendous. For example, if you put a Gardner Minshew out there instead of Cousins, how many more losses do you think we have? One? Maybe two? Then you start to factor in the cap savings, potential trade capital return of trading Cousins, the ability to put more resources into the defense, and start running that recalculation of how many more or less wins we have and I think it starts to get closer to evening out. This teams needs to shake things up a bit to create change, and if we bring in a coach who thinks all it takes is his scheme to cause us to be contenders, then that guy might be too self centered and narcissistic to be successful. Scheme matters, but it won’t take us from where we were last year and transform us into a playoff team. I don’t like the idea of moving on from Cousins without something in place, but the previous regime set us up to be in this position and we have to find a way to get out of the cap hell it created while minimizing risks. I think that can be done by moving on from Cousins, finding a bridge QB like a Mariota, Winston, trading for Minshew, etc, having them compete with Mond, accepting that we might see the same record next year or a little worse, and to start re-investing throughout the team. Of course this also means that we will be resetting in the hunt for a long term QB solution, and that realistically should be through the draft because high/elite talent QB’s rarely hit the market and they cost so much to acquire, and the benefit of a rookie QB contract is insane. I just don’t think he math works out for Cousins to stay, not with our new front office. And I don’t think an extension provides as much long term cap relief as we all would want or expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Young GM, young HC, fully fine with moving on from Cousins and taking some lumps.... in this division, if it ends up how we expect it to, we still have a punchers chance at the playoffs even with a depleted roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc_vikingfan Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I got excited about getting Harbaugh. Yet, Morris, KOC was right up there on my wish list so I'm happy. This team need a new voice and more offensive approach. I don't care how great your defense is, you can't hold every team to 10 points or less. Hoping he picks a good DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Trading cousins right after the superbowl is priority number 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, RpMc said: Young GM, young HC, fully fine with moving on from Cousins and taking some lumps.... in this division, if it ends up how we expect it to, we still have a punchers chance at the playoffs even with a depleted roster. Hope someone like Jefferson doesn’t go sour in the process. He’s had a nice two year run but going from Cousins to say Teddy B might mean a deep drop off in production. Not that we’re building a team to keep Jefferson happy, just something in the back of my mind. Would prefer to not irritate our best player in the process and you never know with how WRs are wired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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