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Silver&Black88

Amari Cooper expectations

27 posts in this topic

Hopefully Downing gets creative with Amari because a player with his route running and physical ability should be an absolute weapon in the RZ.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's a little early. I think he'll get there as he gets bigger and more physical. He doesn't need to ever dominate the redzone to be a top 5 receiver and he scored there on 2 pt conversions so clearly he can do it.

It's early for a prediction? That is the definition of the word. I don't think he needs to dominate in the redzone either to be a top 5 WR but he needs to be good there and he isn't really due to a combo of things.

Like I said he'll get better but IMO there well always be 5 guys with more yards, more tough catches, who are the focal point of their team's offense and who score more tds than he does. Not really a knock on him as a player because, again like I said, he'll be great, just not at that level IMO.

Edit  - And his 2 2pt convs isn't proof he can be elite in the redzone. They were both on double move out routes iirc. Those are the only routes he and Carr seemed comfortable going to in that area.

Edited by NightTrainLane

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From all of the comments I can tell that you guys better get ready to throw shade at Carr because I don't think Amari will break 7-8 tds a yr til Crab is retired.

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1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

It's early for a prediction? That is the definition of the word. I don't think he needs to dominate in the redzone either to be a top 5 WR but he needs to be good there and he isn't really due to a combo of things.

Like I said he'll get better but IMO there well always be 5 guys with more yards, more tough catches, who are the focal point of their team's offense and who score more tds than he does. Not really a knock on him as a player because, again like I said, he'll be great, just not at that level IMO.

Edit  - And his 2 2pt convs isn't proof he can be elite in the redzone. They were both on double move out routes iirc. Those are the only routes he and Carr seemed comfortable going to in that area.

He was 8th in yards last year and it was his 2nd year in the NFL. At the halfway point, he was 3rd in yards. He can be the focal point as he grows as a player. He showed he can make really tough catches too, like the one on Vontae Davis in double coverage. I get what you're trying to say, but it seems way too premature to say this when Cooper has already shown he's a borderline top 10 receiver so early in his career. He has fantastic deep speed, can separate from almost anyone, etc.

If you're right and he gets better, he'll definitely be top 5 in yards soon. Even if people make more "tough catches", it doesn't mean he can't be top 5. Crabtree makes more tough catches, but Cooper blows him away talent wise and 32/32 teams would rather have Cooper. Focal point has more to do with the targets he's given as well. That's not something in his control, but rather a product of the offense he plays in. If you watch coach ted's video, Cooper was legit doubled/in bracket coverage in the redzone and in the 2nd half of the season. It's very hard to score from those positions because teams didn't take Roberts or Walford seriously and were fine to put Crabtree in one on one coverage.

 

If McGloin didn't miss him on the wide open post route and he torched Talib, who by the way didn't allow a receiving touchdown last year, for a 70 yard TD, would you still be saying this? Or if he didn't get called for illegally reestablishing out of bounds after he burned trufant for that 60 yard TD?

Also I didn't say he could be elite in the redzone, but he could be good there, if he gets better looks. One of the 2pt conversions was a slant too.

He's already shown flashes of elite play. He just hasn't sustained it.

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He was 8th in yards last year and it was his 2nd year in the NFL. At the halfway point, he was 3rd in yards. He can be the focal point as he grows as a player. He showed he can make really tough catches too, like the one on Vontae Davis in double coverage. I get what you're trying to say, but it seems way too premature to say this when Cooper has already shown he's a borderline top 10 receiver so early in his career. He has fantastic deep speed, can separate from almost anyone, etc.

If you're right and he gets better, he'll definitely be top 5 in yards soon. Even if people make more "tough catches", it doesn't mean he can't be top 5. Crabtree makes more tough catches, but Cooper blows him away talent wise and 32/32 teams would rather have Cooper. Focal point has more to do with the targets he's given as well. That's not something in his control, but rather a product of the offense he plays in. If you watch coach ted's video, Cooper was legit doubled/in bracket coverage in the redzone and in the 2nd half of the season. It's very hard to score from those positions because teams didn't take Roberts or Walford seriously and were fine to put Crabtree in one on one coverage.

 

If McGloin didn't miss him on the wide open post route and he torched Talib, who by the way didn't allow a receiving touchdown last year, for a 70 yard TD, would you still be saying this? Or if he didn't get called for illegally reestablishing out of bounds after he burned trufant for that 60 yard TD?

Also I didn't say he could be elite in the redzone, but he could be good there, if he gets better looks. One of the 2pt conversions was a slant too.

He's already shown flashes of elite play. He just hasn't sustained it.

 

The only thing this reply did for me is reaffirm WHY I don't think he'll get to that top 5 WR consideration, atleast until Crab is gone.

Just because he was 8th IN YARDS last year doesn't mean he'll place better this year. And that is only one factor in considering the top guys at the position.

Just because you think he can be the focal point of the offense doesn't mean he will be or even should be. I for one, am excited that we have brought in guys this year that will spread the offensive around (Cook, Patterson and Lynch) even more than it was last year. It makes the O harder to predict and stop. Feeding the ball to Cooper 12 times a game when we have the weapons we do isn't smart to do on a weekly basis. Sure there will be times when I see us going to him alot and I do think he can produce like that at times and make defenders look silly but it shouldn't be the staple of the offense.

I don't even know what the bolded section has to do with what I said.

Once again, I do think he'll get better and my comment was not that he couldn't (as in, he doesn't have the ability) but that I don't think he will for all the reasons I have outlined and others.

Im gonna end on this because I don't want it to seem like I'm rooting against him or something. I'm not AT ALL!. He is one of my favorite players, not only because of him being on the Raiders but because of the workman like attitude and the quiet and humble demeanor that he has. I just respect it alot and I want great things for him and the team. I look at him as a Jerry Rice type guy in the sense that I don't think he is ever satisfied and will keep working to achieve his goals. I just think there will always be a few guys that are more athletically or physically gifted or be the focal point of their team due to lack of options or hype. The same way that I don't think OBJ can sustain that production over a long stretch, I don't think Coop will get to that pinnacle of top 5 in a season. If I'm wrong, I'm popping champagne so it's all good from my standpoint.

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3 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

 

The only thing this reply did for me is reaffirm WHY I don't think he'll get to that top 5 WR consideration, atleast until Crab is gone.

Just because he was 8th IN YARDS last year doesn't mean he'll place better this year. And that is only one factor in considering the top guys at the position.

Just because you think he can be the focal point of the offense doesn't mean he will be or even should be. I for one, am excited that we have brought in guys this year that will spread the offensive around (Cook, Patterson and Lynch) even more than it was last year. It makes the O harder to predict and stop. Feeding the ball to Cooper 12 times a game when we have the weapons we do isn't smart to do on a weekly basis. Sure there will be times when I see us going to him alot and I do think he can produce like that at times and make defenders look silly but it shouldn't be the staple of the offense.

I don't even know what the bolded section has to do with what I said.

Once again, I do think he'll get better and my comment was not that he couldn't (as in, he doesn't have the ability) but that I don't think he will for all the reasons I have outlined and others.

Im gonna end on this because I don't want it to seem like I'm rooting against him or something. I'm not AT ALL!. He is one of my favorite players, not only because of him being on the Raiders but because of the workman like attitude and the quiet and humble demeanor that he has. I just respect it alot and I want great things for him and the team. I look at him as a Jerry Rice type guy in the sense that I don't think he is ever satisfied and will keep working to achieve his goals. I just think there will always be a few guys that are more athletically or physically gifted or be the focal point of their team due to lack of options or hype. The same way that I don't think OBJ can sustain that production over a long stretch, I don't think Coop will get to that pinnacle of top 5 in a season. If I'm wrong, I'm popping champagne so it's all good from my standpoint.

I understand your concerns, but it seems like he has the talent and i think he'll be there sooner rather than later. Even if he gets there in 3 years, he'll only be 26 and have 7-10 years left. He's gonna be good for the long haul.

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Just now, MrOaktown_56 said:

I understand your concerns, but it seems like he has the talent and i think he'll be there sooner rather than later. Even if he gets there in 3 years, he'll only be 26 and have 7-10 years left. He's gonna be good for the long haul.

I agree he will be good for the long haul, just not sure about top 5 elite.

But like you said the bulk of his story is yet unwritten. Rice was a 23 year old rookie and even then he basically red shirted for most of his first year and then he exploded in his 2nd year when he was 24 (86rec, 1570yrds, 15tds, 98yrds/gm) which is 2 yrs away for Coop. I draw that parallel because I see alot of the same traits in them. The game is just so different now.

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NickButera    4

Everyone in camp is raving about Cooper and how much he looks improved. However, all the bloggers are also raving about how we're doing these amazing things with 2 TE sets, which I'm stoked about. But with Lynch and 2 TE sets, yea Cooper should get open often, but how many looks is he going to get? We have a crowded offense, and we may be turning into one of those teams where we're not reliant on 1 person doing great every year, and thus they won't (stat wise). 

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20 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Everyone in camp is raving about Cooper and how much he looks improved. However, all the bloggers are also raving about how we're doing these amazing things with 2 TE sets, which I'm stoked about. But with Lynch and 2 TE sets, yea Cooper should get open often, but how many looks is he going to get? We have a crowded offense, and we may be turning into one of those teams where we're not reliant on 1 person doing great every year, and thus they won't (stat wise). 

Here's a WARNING for doubting Cooper

 

 

I bet you were skeptical of Tony Moeaki too.

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NickButera    4
25 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Here's a WARNING for doubting Cooper

 

 

I bet you were skeptical of Tony Moeaki too.

:( I was. 5 minutes later I was struck dead by lightning. Luckily Tony Moeaki showed up and raised me from the dead. 

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It sounds like Cooper didn't miss a beat yesterday after being out for a while. I was reading him and Carr were regularly connecting throughout practice.

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Nightmare    1
4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

It sounds like Cooper didn't miss a beat yesterday after being out for a while. I was reading him and Carr were regularly connecting throughout practice.

Because Cooper is a natural at the position. He's had his injuries, and he's been working on an offense where there are lots of options and as a result hasn't always been the primary target, but the dude just knows how to ball.

To answer the topic question specifically; I think the stacked offense means he'll never really post elite numbers with us. Solid, definitely, but he's just not going to get the opportunity to put up Antonio Brown or Julio Jones type stats.

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