Draft Talk

[tyler735]

It's that time of year again. Should be an interesting offseason for us with Payton retiring and the question mark we have at QB for next season. We also have to address the WR situation. Sounds like Michael Thomas should be back next year, which is huge, but beyond him we certainly need to add more talent at the position.

Senior Bowl game starts shortly. I'll be interested to see how Malik Willis and Kenny Pickett look today as those are the 2 QB's that would intrigue me the most if we draft a QB in the 1st round this year. Also curious to see how Christian Watson looks today at WR. He comes from a small school, but has excellent size and athleticism. May be a good option beyond after the 1st round for us.

Edited February 5, 2022 by tyler735

[JMG5]

I really want us to take a WR in Round 1, but its probably going to be an offensive lineman again if we let Armstead walk.

[tyler735]

WR was my initial thought as well a few weeks back (not opposed to it depending on who is available when we pick), but Sean Payton retiring may have thrown a huge wrench in our draft strategy. I'd love Treylon Burks, or even a guy like Garrett Wilson wouldn't be bad in round 1. That said, I think there's going to be some impact WR's available in round 2 as well. Guys like Jahan Dotson, Jameson Williams (the knee injury could drop him a bit), and Christian Watson seem like talented options that may be there in round 2 for us. Each of them also have the explosiveness to beat teams deep, which would pair well with Michael Thomas.

The new head coach may very well want to pick his QB. Hard to say what Winston will do this season now that Payton is gone and how much money he would ask for as well given our cap situation. Not sure a new coach would want to start their tenure as head coach with an inconsistent QB coming off an ACL either. I think Payton retiring also hurt any chance we had at landing Russell Wilson this offseason. Drafting a QB if they see a guy they like might be the best option to ease our cap situation. Obviously this class isn't as loaded as last years, but I think there's a few guys with some tools to work with that could be quality QB's.

Sounds like we met with Malik Willis at the Senior Bowl this week, so given our front offices history of going for players at the Senior Bowl, I'd have to think he is at least someone to keep an eye on going forward in the draft process for us. We also met with Carson Strong as well at the Senior Bowl.

Edited February 6, 2022 by tyler735

[JMG5]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

WR was my initial thought as well a few weeks back (not opposed to it depending on who is available when we pick), but Sean Payton retiring may have thrown a huge wrench in our draft strategy. I'd love Treylon Burks, or even a guy like Garrett Wilson wouldn't be bad in round 1. That said, I think there's going to be some impact WR's available in round 2 as well. Guys like Jahan Dotson, Jameson Williams (the knee injury could drop him a bit), and Christian Watson seem like talented options that may be there in round 2 for us. Each of them also have the explosiveness to beat teams deep, which would pair well with Michael Thomas.

The new head coach may very well want to pick his QB. Hard to say what Winston will do this season now that Payton is gone and how much money he would ask for as well given our cap situation. Not sure a new coach would want to start their tenure as head coach with an inconsistent QB coming off an ACL either. I think Payton retiring also hurt any chance we had at landing Russell Wilson this offseason. Drafting a QB if they see a guy they like might be the best option to ease our cap situation. Obviously this class isn't as loaded as last years, but I think there's a few guys with some tools to work with that could be quality QB's.

Sounds like we met with Malik Willis at the Senior Bowl this week, so given our front offices history of going for players at the Senior Bowl, I'd have to think he is at least someone to keep an eye on going forward in the draft process for us. We also met with Carson Strong as well at the Senior Bowl.

I don't want us to reach for a mediocre QB to groom without Sean in the building. I would much prefer us fill the holes on our roster then take a swing the following draft with better QB prospect. 

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, JMG5 said:

I don't want us to reach for a mediocre QB to groom without Sean in the building. I would much prefer us fill the holes on our roster then take a swing the following draft with better QB prospect. 

I think Willis and Pickett have potential to be more than that. Willis is obviously riskier, but has the raw tools to be an absolute weapon in the NFL with his athleticism and arm talent if he can continue to develop his game. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Mid Iowa]

Man, Winston sure has gotten the crap end of the stick. He can't keep a steady head coach. Lovie Smith, Dirk Koetter, Bruce Arians, Sean Payton, and now...???

Step 1, dump/trade all the high priced, mediocre/old/often injured/over paid players, including Peat (injury proned), Cam Jordan (old), Taysom Hill (injury proned), Malcom Jenkins (old), Bradly Roby (expensive), Mark Ingram (old), and maybe even Michael Thomas (over paid, depending on his attitude).

Anyway, I like an O-lineman in the 1st round. Heck, I'd take O-line for the entire draft. We don't have a complete line (Ruiz is the weak link), Peat and Armstead have never completed a season, so I'll assume that will continue, so we have no pass protection and can barely run, with a few occasional games. Build depth around Ramczyk and McCoy. Those 2 are studs. 

WR doesn't matter if we don't have a QB, and QB doesn't matter if we don't have protection or WRs who can actually get open AND catch.

So, trade Cam Jordan or the 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins, and then blow the rest of the draft on the line. Go 4-13 and build skill positions next.

 

[Dome]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:58 AM, Mid Iowa said:

Man, Winston sure has gotten the crap end of the stick. He can't keep a steady head coach. Lovie Smith, Dirk Koetter, Bruce Arians, Sean Payton, and now...???

Yeah I feel bad for Winston. I still want him as our QBotF after what he showed last year.

 

Quote

Step 1, dump/trade all the high priced, mediocre/old/often injured/over paid players, including Peat (injury proned), Cam Jordan (old), Taysom Hill (injury proned), Malcom Jenkins (old), Bradly Roby (expensive), Mark Ingram (old), and maybe even Michael Thomas (over paid, depending on his attitude).

This is going to be a 2-year plan. I would keep the defense in tact into the 2nd year and move on from offensive guys first if this is the plan they choose.

 

Peat's contract cannot be voided before 2023, we can't save money with a cut. If we found a trade partner we could designate him as one of our two Post June 1st trades to save $10m. I think we can find someone to take him for a mid-late round pick, they would owe him $11m, $12m and $12m on his last 3 years which is reasonable. He is very underrated on the field, fans hate him even though he is a really solid OG. But he's overpaid and always hurt, it's time to move on.

Cam Jordan is still a high end DE and could bring in a nice draft pick, if we think our defense can keep us competitive (it can) I don't think we should trade him. If we traded him with a Post June 1st designation he would save us $15m on the cap. If we traded him in a standard deal with no designation we would only save $1.7m. Now is the time to move him. His value will likely plummet after his resurgence this season, but we might be able to get one more year out of him.

Taysom Hill isn't leaving this year unless we can find a trade partner, which I don't think we can. I suspect he and Winston will be the same QB duo again, if we retain Winston. 

Malcolm Jenkins could save us $3.8m or $7.8m depending on the designation. Finding a trade partner would be even better, but we wouldn't get much. He adds a lot of leadership and veteran presence, he has value to a few teams I would imagine.

Bradley Roby/Mark Ingram should already have his place on the market, it will be even better if he was just renting. Not a bad player at all, but we got him on a deal and can cut him for big savings and little dead cap. This is strictly a value move and the expected roster churn each team has every season, not an indictment on them.

Michael Thomas is not someone I want to leave unless we can bring in a good haul, and I think we would need to see him healthy for a year to get that. He's too valuable to a young QB or veteran QBs who feels best in a short rhythm passing offense, there are a few of them. We could save $15m this year by designating him a Post June 1st trade, but I don't think anyone would offer up enough after a year off.

 

 

Quote

Anyway, I like an O-lineman in the 1st round. Heck, I'd take O-line for the entire draft. We don't have a complete line (Ruiz is the weak link), Peat and Armstead have never completed a season, so I'll assume that will continue, so we have no pass protection and can barely run, with a few occasional games. Build depth around Ramczyk and McCoy. Those 2 are studs. 

I think you are being a little too hard on the offensive line here when talking about their abilities (this year they sucked, but they've meshed well and been a great line in the past), but it's fair to mention their availability for sure.

Peat and Armstead are always hurt, but one of them is average at worst and the other is an offensive cornerstone, plus the two studs you mentioned. If that line can stay healthy and win us 5 games behind the defense's lead, which I think it can, i would be hesitant to blow it up this year.

That said I'm always fine using early picks in the trenches. But I do think Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks really ruined Saints fans on what to expect from their OGs lol

 

Quote

WR doesn't matter if we don't have a QB, and QB doesn't matter if we don't have protection or WRs who can actually get open AND catch.

Thomas is a huge boon to a novice QB. Specifically because he excels in short area routes to get open quickly for an easy drop back and release.

Thomas went off with 5 games of Teddy.... 42 receptions, 551 yards, 3 TDs
In 4 games with Taysom and a bum ankle he had 30 receptions for 343 yards

I think Thomas is a very important guy to keep, and the WR does matter even if our QB sucks. Our OL can block, they just need to sort it out this year. Covid messing with continuity screwed us over for several games too. SP throwing guys in he had only met during pre-game streches.
 

Quote

So, trade Cam Jordan or the 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins, and then blow the rest of the draft on the line. Go 4-13 and build skill positions next.

Not Kirk. He's a passer, not the leader of an offense.

You could do a lot worse, but if we are jettisoning pieces that could help us be competitive it doesn't make any sense.

He's not taking us there on his own, nor are we building around him if we have to take on his salary. 

 

[Mid Iowa]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:09 AM, Dome said:

I think you are being a little too hard on the offensive line here when talking about their abilities (this year they sucked, but they've meshed well and been a great line in the past), but it's fair to mention their availability for sure.

Peat and Armstead are always hurt, but one of them is average at worst and the other is an offensive cornerstone, plus the two studs you mentioned. If that line can stay healthy and win us 5 games behind the defense's lead, which I think it can, i would be hesitant to blow it up this year.

That said I'm always fine using early picks in the trenches. But I do think Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks really ruined Saints fans on what to expect from their OGs lol

Yeah, I'm being hard on our O-line. Probably out of frustration. The line was a hot mess this year, and apparently DA agrees as he just terminated strength and conditioning coach Dan Dalrymple, offensive line coach Brendan Nugent and offensive analyst Jim Chaney. So there's something there that DA isn't pleased with, or sees room for growth.

I guess when you lose your #1 WR and the others drop passes like roofies in a Vegas night club ultimately causing several losses, there's an issue.

I've mentioned the offensive struggles in other posts, so I won't clutter this one with another (from my viewpoint) breakdown, but we all know the O need work. Maybe even a lot of work.

Damn Evans & Nicks... And let's just throw Rammy in there, too.

[tyler735]

I'm a bit nervous about the Kamara situation. Have a feeling he's going to have a suspension to deal with for at least part of this season. Don't think Roger will hold back once the video surfaces. The good news is it sounds like Michael Thomas is healthy and ready to go this season. He's still just 28, so I think he's get several quality seasons ahead still. Especially with his style of play. With this news, I don't view WR as a must draft early in the draft anymore. I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't think it is completely necessary either at this point. 

I'm still hoping for Malik Willis/Kenny Pickett in the 1st round to address the QB situation. In the 2nd round I wouldn't mind seeing us take a RB such a Kenneth Walker if he's still available. I think there's going to be a teams regretting passing on him. With the Kamara situation and needing another RB anyway, I think Walker would be a perfect RB to bring in. Having a guy like him could help extend Kamara's career a bit as well so we don't have to run Kamara into the ground in the coming years.

[Mid Iowa]

19 hours ago, tyler735 said:

I'm a bit nervous about the Kamara situation. Have a feeling he's going to have a suspension to deal with for at least part of this season. Don't think Roger will hold back once the video surfaces.

My thoughts immediately went to the Ray Rice situation. And frankly, if the video and situation proves what's been said - basically a multi-person vs. 1 beat down - then he shouldn't be in the NFL. I'm not sure the whole story, non of us are, but the bottom line is unless Kamara's safety was proven to be in harms way, there is absolutely zero excuse for what happened, and anything shy of being released and suspended for at least 1 year would be letting all other players know that it's okay to whoop the living crap out of someone, go party, play a game the next day, eventually get tracked down, and then shrug your shoulders.

Oh, it shouldn't matter if this was a male or female. 

[tyler735]

Another QB that could be intriguing is Sam Howell. He has a lot of upside and has been a productive QB for North Carolina the past 3 years. Going into the season he had a lot of hype as potentially being the top QB for this draft, but didn't quite have the season some were expecting, but it's my understanding that he also lost quite a few players on offense. 

He has all the physical tools you'd hope for in a QB in today's NFL. Physically his build is very similar to Taysom Hill. He's kind of a unique case with his playstyle as in his first 2 seasons he didn't run much and mostly just made plays with his arm, but this past season he showed he could be a weapon running with the ball. As mentioned he has a very muscular frame and consistently runs through tacklers with ease. He really has a similar running style to Taysom Hill, but is probably a step slower. 

In regards to throwing the ball, he possesses great arm talent. He has the arm to launch a ball accurately 60+ yards downfield. Obviously there's much more to being a great QB than a nice deep ball, but after the past several years as a Saints fan, it is nice to see. 

He seems to be a good decision maker, and is generally pretty accurate. Has the arm talent to throw off platform and improvise. He also seems to do well feeling pressure in the pocket. The one area I just can't get a feel on is his ability to get through his reads. It didn't seem like he had to go through many reads in the North Carolina offense. 

Given his skillset and having Taysom Hill on the roster already, it could be helpful to build a system around 2 guys that have similar skillsets at QB (Howell is a much more talented passer).

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by tyler735

[ckoz24]

I would be happy with Malik Willis if it was the case. Everything about him screams character, seems to have good deep ball accuracy and can scramble to let his guys get open.

 

QB feels like a crap shoot every draft. I’ve always thought spending a top 10 pick on a QB was playing roulette. Brett Kollman even did a video about it now.

[Mid Iowa]

We're so far over the salary cap, it's hard for me to even think about the draft.

I heard a really interesting stat last night on sports radio during my commute;
In the last 10 years, no player (except Gronkowski) who was the highest paid in their position, has won the Super Bowl

That's a really interesting stat, and now we see the Cowboys are likely to release Amari Cooper as he's due $20mil fully guaranteed if he's on the roster past (I think) the 5th.

This is turning into a churn & burn league.

Look at what we've gotten out of our top paid guys. Whatever you're looking at, it's not a Lombardi trophy.

[Raves]

@Mid Iowalistening to the radio apparently we made an offer for Watson so no matter how much over the cap we currently are, it's not enough for Loomis to be worried that he can't work some magic.

[whodatOL]

Cap won't be a problem with Watson. Problem should be the assets, as they already restructured most of the valuable assets. Cap wise they would likely restructure Watsons contract and with some assets traded away they should be good.