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Rick Smith Hot Seat Thread


Apollo Stallion

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Let's play which one of these is not like the other...

Longest tenured, non owner GM's (Jones, Brown)

1) Bill Belichick, Pats, (2000), 201-71 5 Super Bowl Wins, 7 Super Bowl Appearances, 14 Playoff Appearances, 10 Win Seasons - 15, 10 Loss Seasons - 1

2) Mickey Loomis, Saints, (2002), 136-101 1 Super Bowl Win, 5 Playoff Appearances, 10 Loss Seasons - 1

3) Ozzie Newsome, Ravens, (2003), 132-101, 1 Super Bowl Win, 8 Playoff Appearances, 10 Loss Seasons - 2

4) Ted Thompson, Packers, (2005), 123-77, 1 Super Bowl Win, 9 Playoff Appearances, 3 Conference Championship Games, 10 Loss Seasons - 2

5) Rick Smith, Texans (2006), 91-94, 0 Super Bowl Wins, 4 Playoff Appearances, 10 loss seasons 3 (4th coming)

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3 hours ago, OzzyTexan said:

AJ Bouye wanted a fresh start.. Cleveland doesn't want Kareem Jackson.. this is not Madden.

Yeah... nobody will take a 2nd to take on Ozzy's contract either ;)

It was a bit tongue in cheek.  But the reality is Cleveland had / has a crap load of cap room and they were hunting around for vets to play in their secondary last off-season.

If Texans had guaranteed Bouye a contract equivalent to Jax's offer and a starting position, I think he stays.

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Next 5 longest tenured GM's

again - winning %, few losing seasons, all having Super Bowl seasons or Roseman's Eagles currently best team in football!

6) Jerry Reese, Giants (2007), 90-80, Super Bowl Wins 2, Playoffs 4/10, 10 loss seasons 2

7) Thomas Dimitroff, Falcons (2008), 91-63, Super Bowl Loss 1, Playoffs 4/9, 10 loss seasons 2

8) Kevin Colbert, Steelers (2010), 79-42, Super Bowl Loss 1, Playoffs 5/7, Losing Seasons - none

9) John Schnieder, Seahawks (2010), 76-44,  1 Super Bowl Win, 1 Super Bowl Loss, Playoffs 6/7, 10 loss seasons - none

10) Howard Roseman, Eagles (2010-14, 16-17), 57-48, Playoffs 2/6 (currently 8-1), 10 loss seasons - 1

Rick Smith - 4 playoffs in 12 seasons despite worst division in football - 1 wild card blowout/3 division round blowouts - amongst worst in football 4x

Find me a GM in the history of the NFL who has a LOSING record still had his job after 12 years, 10, 8?  Matt Millen was probably the worst ever, but even he was fired in his 7th season.  Do you people understand what an unprecedented lack of accountability Rick Smith continues to experience with this team by the owner, fans, and media?  Demand answers!

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1 hour ago, jch1911 said:

Yeah... nobody will take a 2nd to take on Ozzy's contract either ;)

It was a bit tongue in cheek.  But the reality is Cleveland had / has a crap load of cap room and they were hunting around for vets to play in their secondary last off-season.

If Texans had guaranteed Bouye a contract equivalent to Jax's offer and a starting position, I think he stays.

Huh?  Why is this even up for discussion?  Bouye absolutely expressed his overwhelming desire to remain a Texan and gratitude for sticking by him and giving him a chance to blossom into a Pro Bowler.  Even if his success was limited to some flashes his first 3 seasons and then one great season, shut-down man-to-man corner skills are amongst the rarest and most valuable skills that exist in the NFL. He was seriously pursued by teams in 2016 as an RFA including the Jags and Titans and at least 6 teams were bidding at $50 million + for him this offseason.  Rick Smith's staff badly miscalculated the demand for his services on the open market and never came close to retaining him as they deemed him expendable in favor of his pet #1 picks Kareem Jackson, Kevin Johnson, neither of whom possess man to man ability, and aging Jonathan Joseph.  Smith tried to replicate the strategy he employed with Kareem Jackson who was allowed to explore the market and quickly ran back to resign with the Texans as there was minimal interest outside of the Bears where he knew he'd be further exposed in a different system that might actually ask him to cover good receivers in a division with good QBs who have roasted him.  Rick Smith not only committed the sin of letting a Pro Bowler walk in his prime, he did so while getting nothing in return, and he compounded it by letting him go to a division rival that has instantly surpassed us and will be shutting down our high priced WR for the next 5 years.

In the span of 2 offseasons he is responsible for the worst free agent signing in NFL history in Osweiler, turned a top 3 secondary into a bottom 3 by letting 1/2 of it go and not replacing it, failed to upgrade a single position on one of the worst offensive lines from the previous season, participated in one of the most detrimental holdouts in history with Duane Brown, and will have us likely be the first team in NFL history to finish with a bottom 5-10 record yet have no 1st or 2nd round picks.  There are GMs with Super Bowl rings and strings of playoff success fired for FAR less, yet this is a GM who has presided over nothing more beating two of the only teams with fewer playoff wins than we do this century, to go with a losing record over a dozen years in charge.   Of course, we're the same team that hired our first GM after he traded a future 1st ballot hall of famer, 12 time pro bowl shutdown CB for a 2 time Pro Bowl RB AND even threw in a 2nd round pick (Casserly - Champ Bailey + 2nd rounder for Clinton Portis), so hey maybe we'll be giving Matt Millen a call after all.

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3 hours ago, Apollo Stallion said:

Huh?  Why is this even up for discussion?  Bouye absolutely expressed his overwhelming desire to remain a Texan and gratitude for sticking by him and giving him a chance to blossom into a Pro Bowler.  Even if his success was limited to some flashes his first 3 seasons and then one great season, shut-down man-to-man corner skills are amongst the rarest and most valuable skills that exist in the NFL. He was seriously pursued by teams in 2016 as an RFA including the Jags and Titans and at least 6 teams were bidding at $50 million + for him this offseason.  Rick Smith's staff badly miscalculated the demand for his services on the open market and never came close to retaining him as they deemed him expendable in favor of his pet #1 picks Kareem Jackson, Kevin Johnson, neither of whom possess man to man ability, and aging Jonathan Joseph.  Smith tried to replicate the strategy he employed with Kareem Jackson who was allowed to explore the market and quickly ran back to resign with the Texans as there was minimal interest outside of the Bears where he knew he'd be further exposed in a different system that might actually ask him to cover good receivers in a division with good QBs who have roasted him.  Rick Smith not only committed the sin of letting a Pro Bowler walk in his prime, he did so while getting nothing in return, and he compounded it by letting him go to a division rival that has instantly surpassed us and will be shutting down our high priced WR for the next 5 years.

Bouye wanted a fresh start with a new team. Nobody thinks maybe he would have preferred to go to Jacksonville even after Houston put in a competitive offer?... Maybe he was sick of Houston QB situation? He didn't know we would draft Watson or if that would work out. At that stage we were all in on Savage and maybe he knew that wouldn't go so well. His college teammate Bortles is Jags QB maybe he believes in him as a better option than what Houston had?... Maybe he wanted to go and live closer to home? Played high school in Georgia and college at UCF. Maybe he wants to be closer to his family?... Maybe Bouye saw the talent the Jags were assembling on defense and wanted to be apart of that? They had just signed Campbell and he knew he could form a great tandem with Ramsey along with the other pieces on that D... Maybe the Jags did offer him more guaranteed money or salary? There are plenty of reasons why Bouye would see jacksonville as a good option for himself and to blame Rick Smith for a player deciding to leave the organization is unreasonable. Obviously Bouye expressed a desire to stay with a team ready to sign him to for 60+ million dollar contract. What do you expect him to say?.... You say Smith tried to replicate the strategy of letting him explore the market. Why wouldn't Bouye sign before free agency if he 'overwhelming desired to remain a texan'? Smith did all he could to keep Bouye and it didn't work out. Lets move forward..

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2 hours ago, OzzyTexan said:

Smith did all he could to keep Bouye and it didn't work out. Lets move forward..

I really don't think this is the case - I think Smith miscalculated on the effectiveness of Kevin Johnson returning from injury and tried to stare down Bouye into an offer that was below market value. Bouye left, Johnson has been a massive disappointment and the secondary is a mess.

The exact same thing happened with Brandon Brooks - underestimated his value, figured Jeff Allen and Susan Sua Filo could plug in the gap, and now the team is worse for wear.

Smith is ultimately the problem. This has been the case since the Kubiak years.

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3 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I really don't think this is the case - I think Smith miscalculated on the effectiveness of Kevin Johnson returning from injury and tried to stare down Bouye into an offer that was below market value. Bouye left, Johnson has been a massive disappointment and the secondary is a mess.

The exact same thing happened with Brandon Brooks - underestimated his value, figured Jeff Allen and Susan Sua Filo could plug in the gap, and now the team is worse for wear.

Smith is ultimately the problem. This has been the case since the Kubiak years.

I agree.  This is the same guy who people thought it wasn't his fault he let Glover Quin go.  We had to settle for an over the hill Ed Reed because of him.  Bottom line is that he really didn't make an effort to resign Bouye and it's biting him in the butt. 

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6 hours ago, OzzyTexan said:

Maybe he wanted to go and live closer to home? Played high school in Georgia and college at UCF.

I'm pulling this piece out for a quick analysis - AJ Bouye is 26 years old, former undrafted FA, who was playing on an RFA deal last season. Against his counterparts in the NFL, he didn't make much money in his first four years in the league. Furthermore, his current deal will expire when he's 31/32 years old, around the time where skill position players start to see less money in contract offerings.

Creature comforts that you outline above - closer to family, etc - don't compare to this being Bouye's first and last big deal he'll make in his career. All that mattered to his camp was maximizing his value as much as he can, because the window on hosting career isn't going to get this level of money ever again.

Jacksonville offered the most coin and Rick couldn't/wouldn't match. And now, that is the main issue in our secondary at this point.

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7 hours ago, OzzyTexan said:

Bouye wanted a fresh start with a new team. Nobody thinks maybe he would have preferred to go to Jacksonville even after Houston put in a competitive offer?... Maybe he was sick of Houston QB situation? He didn't know we would draft Watson or if that would work out. At that stage we were all in on Savage and maybe he knew that wouldn't go so well. His college teammate Bortles is Jags QB maybe he believes in him as a better option than what Houston had?... Maybe he wanted to go and live closer to home? Played high school in Georgia and college at UCF. Maybe he wants to be closer to his family?... Maybe Bouye saw the talent the Jags were assembling on defense and wanted to be apart of that? They had just signed Campbell and he knew he could form a great tandem with Ramsey along with the other pieces on that D... Maybe the Jags did offer him more guaranteed money or salary? There are plenty of reasons why Bouye would see jacksonville as a good option for himself and to blame Rick Smith for a player deciding to leave the organization is unreasonable. Obviously Bouye expressed a desire to stay with a team ready to sign him to for 60+ million dollar contract. What do you expect him to say?.... You say Smith tried to replicate the strategy of letting him explore the market. Why wouldn't Bouye sign before free agency if he 'overwhelming desired to remain a texan'? Smith did all he could to keep Bouye and it didn't work out. Lets move forward..

Any sane GM would have tagged him. I don't know where you are getting this nonsense

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4 hours ago, mse326 said:

Any sane GM would have tagged him. I don't know where you are getting this nonsense

Im just using my head man I don't even know why he would stay in Houston. Jags offering more money, closer to home, with college teammates, and better defensive personnel. We don't really have to argue about a guy leaving except y'all blaming Rick Smith for a player deciding to leave. 

9 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I really don't think this is the case - I think Smith miscalculated on the effectiveness of Kevin Johnson returning from injury and tried to stare down Bouye into an offer that was below market value. Bouye left, Johnson has been a massive disappointment and the secondary is a mess.

The exact same thing happened with Brandon Brooks - underestimated his value, figured Jeff Allen and Susan Sua Filo could plug in the gap, and now the team is worse for wear.

Smith is ultimately the problem. This has been the case since the Kubiak years.

Yes we should blame Rick Smith because a player got hurt and struggled when return to the line up. Thats all on Rick Smith...  I think the other free agent deals y'all mention like Quin Brooks both of those guys got paid and Houston can't pay a premium for a good player not knowing if they turn into great ones. Both those guys have improved since leaving Houston and now they are worth those contracts. Quin especially. Brooks looks much better when better players are around him. Nobody wants to bring up Brooks Reed? tested the market overpaid by Atlanta and has a bust for them. Should we have overpaid to resign him too?

I don't think Rick Smith is a great GM but I don't look around the league and see GM's who don't make mistakes either.

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35 minutes ago, OzzyTexan said:

Im just using my head man I don't even know why he would stay in Houston. Jags offering more money, closer to home, with college teammates, and better defensive personnel. We don't really have to argue about a guy leaving except y'all blaming Rick Smith for a player deciding to leave.

Again. He could have and should have tagged him and then there wouldn't be an option to leave. And the offering more money is exactly the point. He low balled the offer. Everything after the money is just you rationalizing. There are also plenty good reasons to stay in Houston plus as was pointed out to you he said he wanted to stay in Houston. The problem was Smith not offering nearly enough.

Oh and to say you'd choose the Jags because of better defensive personnel. We were the #1 defense last season and Jags were no where close. If playing on a better defense was a reason that would have pushed towards Houston.

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1 hour ago, mse326 said:

Again. He could have and should have tagged him and then there wouldn't be an option to leave. And the offering more money is exactly the point. He low balled the offer. Everything after the money is just you rationalizing. There are also plenty good reasons to stay in Houston plus as was pointed out to you he said he wanted to stay in Houston. The problem was Smith not offering nearly enough.

Oh and to say you'd choose the Jags because of better defensive personnel. We were the #1 defense last season and Jags were no where close. If playing on a better defense was a reason that would have pushed towards Houston.

Ok we can argue about this forever haha. Lets just agree to disagree. Ultimately we don't know what Smith offered or what factored into AJ decision. All we know is he left and we are hurting now. I still don't blame Rick for him leaving and y'all still do..

And lol yer we were #1 and they were #6. They were quite close. There was plenty of talent on that Jags D before and AJ perhaps thought he could add to that. 

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18 minutes ago, OzzyTexan said:

Ok we can argue about this forever haha. Lets just agree to disagree. Ultimately we don't know what Smith offered or what factored into AJ decision. All we know is he left and we are hurting now. I still don't blame Rick for him leaving and y'all still do..

And lol yer we were #1 and they were #6. They were quite close. There was plenty of talent on that Jags D before and AJ perhaps thought he could add to that. 

I notice you still fail to reconcile not tagging him with your position.

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7 hours ago, mse326 said:

I notice you still fail to reconcile not tagging him with your position.

No I think we probably should have tagged him but I don't blame Rick Smith for not doing it. I don't think teams will use the tag unless they have to. I think it gives the players a lot more power. Maybe he wouldn't play under the tag and holds out? Then we have two holdouts in camp.. I wouldn't say Houston was in a  position where they had to sign AJ.. Rick had Kevin Johnson as insurance for AJ walking. It didn't work out due to injuries and johnson's performance but maybe he thought his first round pick could perform better and stay healthy year 3. 

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5 hours ago, OzzyTexan said:

No I think we probably should have tagged him but I don't blame Rick Smith for not doing it. I don't think teams will use the tag unless they have to. I think it gives the players a lot more power. Maybe he wouldn't play under the tag and holds out? Then we have two holdouts in camp.. I wouldn't say Houston was in a  position where they had to sign AJ.. Rick had Kevin Johnson as insurance for AJ walking. It didn't work out due to injuries and johnson's performance but maybe he thought his first round pick could perform better and stay healthy year 3. 

Your delusional if you believe any of that. And even if he though Johnson would be as good that doesn't excuse keeping Kareem over AJ.

There is not a chance in hell Bouye holds out.

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