What will we do about the Oline?

[THE DUKE]

Spain/Carman should be our ONLY training camp battle for a starting spot.  I want C, RG, RT locked down by Free Agent signings that will start without a doubt.

[Beck Bristow]

1 hour ago, ochocinco4pres said:

I agree I am not ready to 100% give up on Carman. But I don't think we should enter next year with him penciled in as a starter. I think a battle with a guy like Spain is the way to play it. I dont want to draft a 5-6th round G and have him battle Carman for a starting job. 

Is he a guard or tackle long term? They talk about guard, but he may truly be a tackle. 

Does anyone know if our inability to run lined up with Adeneji taking over at guard?

[ochocinco4pres]

14 minutes ago, Beck Bristow said:

Is he a guard or tackle long term? They talk about guard, but he may truly be a tackle. 

Does anyone know if our inability to run lined up with Adeneji taking over at guard?

I agree with earlier post that I was kind of shocked he was never given a snap there once Prince took over. I get he wasn't a great guard, but he couldn't have been worse than price could he?

 

I know following the draft it seemed the coaches weren't happy with his conditioning and stuff. I wonder if he just started off with a sour note and never got back in the coaches good graces. This is a massive offseason for him. If he doesn't do it right, his career could be very short. 

[sparky151]

We drafted 3 O-linemen in 2021 and none of them impressed last year, even with lots of opportunities. If you're not better than Adeniji or Prince or Hopkins, you aren't NFL starting material. So we should just regard our flock of younger O-linemen as backups and not expect much from them. If the light turns on for them, then great we have quality depth. If not, we have questionable depth. 

We aren't going to sign a 20 mil per year tackle like Armstead. But we should sign a 10 mil center and a couple of 8 mil guards. Cut Hopkins and that adds up to the price of the tackle. 

 

[Beck Bristow]

5 hours ago, sparky151 said:

We drafted 3 O-linemen in 2021 and none of them impressed last year, even with lots of opportunities. If you're not better than Adeniji or Prince or Hopkins, you aren't NFL starting material. So we should just regard our flock of younger O-linemen as backups and not expect much from them. If the light turns on for them, then great we have quality depth. If not, we have questionable depth. 

We aren't going to sign a 20 mil per year tackle like Armstead. But we should sign a 10 mil center and a couple of 8 mil guards. Cut Hopkins and that adds up to the price of the tackle. 

 

Hill and Smith weren't supposed to see the field this year, both are definitely development types. Probably the last two guys on the roster if they make it. Carman needs to take a few steps this offseason if he's going to be a starter. I'm sure they'd like to start him, but they need someone who is a sure thing. Adeneji is probably not worth keeping on the roster. Maybe he can stick on the practice squad 

[sparky151]

They can't go into free agency or the draft counting on Carman or any of the other young O-linemen. Because if it turns out they can't count on them, then it's too late and Burrow is at unnecessary risk. We've seen that movie before, let's fix the damn problems.

Adeniji will be fighting with Prince and Johnson for a tackle spot. He's not a guard. Carman and Smith don't seem to be fits at guard either, they are tackles by trade. Adeniji was spotty but had some good play in 2020 when Jonah was out. Of course Johnson played well at times at LT in 2019. We need some proper guards. Spain is one and maybe the team will re-sign him if they can't find an upgrade. We need a C and RG too as well as to figure out RT. 

Fixing the O-line isn't that hard, it just requires the team to stop doing dumb stuff like projecting college players to different positions and going cheap in front of Burrow. 

 

 

[SmittyBacall]

I agree with everyone on Carman. We should not go into the season relying on him for anything, regardless of his draft status. Anything he adds should be a nice surprise and a luxury. My worry is we treat Carman like Ogbuehi/Fisher and throw them in the deep end again because they cost a premium pick.

 

[Beck Bristow]

We need starters set post free agency and worse case scenario has to be Williams-Spain-FA Center-FA RG-FA RT

If Carman, Smith or any rookies win starting jobs, it should be because they earned it.

[sparky151]

17 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I agree with everyone on Carman. We should not go into the season relying on him for anything, regardless of his draft status. Anything he adds should be a nice surprise and a luxury. My worry is we treat Carman like Ogbuehi/Fisher and throw them in the deep end again because they cost a premium pick.

 

Yes, the sunk cost fallacy. The guys who decide the roster are the same people who thought Carman was worth a high pick. So they anchor to their bias and project improvement on him.

If the Bengals don't sign 4 veteran O-linemen in free agency (possibly including Spain and Reiff), they aren't serious about upgrading the O-line. 

[SmittyBacall]

I have a feeling our line will look something like this:

Jonah Williams - Quinton Spain - Ryan Jenson - Premium Pick (Zion Johnson?) - Riley Reiff

I'd imagine someone like Terron Armstead might be too rich for our taste. Quinton Spain played well enough to come back and will come cheap, same with Reiff. Ryan Jenson is someone I could see us targeting. Fits the mold of FAs we've been acquiring. 

[sparky151]

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I have a feeling our line will look something like this:

Jonah Williams - Quinton Spain - Ryan Jenson - Premium Pick (Zion Johnson?) - Riley Reiff

I'd imagine someone like Terron Armstead might be too rich for our taste. Quinton Spain played well enough to come back and will come cheap, same with Reiff. Ryan Jenson is someone I could see us targeting. Fits the mold of FAs we've been acquiring. 

That's pretty minimalist and thus within the realm of possibility. I hope we aim higher than 2 recycles and a rookie. 

[Beck Bristow]

4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

That's pretty minimalist and thus within the realm of possibility. I hope we aim higher than 2 recycles and a rookie. 

It would be a big upgrade over what we had. Of course, our depth was a huge issue,  so that can't be it.

[ochocinco4pres]

17 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I have a feeling our line will look something like this:

Jonah Williams - Quinton Spain - Ryan Jenson - Premium Pick (Zion Johnson?) - Riley Reiff

I'd imagine someone like Terron Armstead might be too rich for our taste. Quinton Spain played well enough to come back and will come cheap, same with Reiff. Ryan Jenson is someone I could see us targeting. Fits the mold of FAs we've been acquiring. 

That seems realistic for sure, but I hope they do more than that personally. Now is not the time to not go hard at O line

[sparky151]

We shouldn't rely on a rookie to start on the O-line. Any rookie will be attacked relentlessly and we shouldn't gamble Burrow's health on it. We also have no idea in advance who will be available at 31 so that should be enough to rule it out. If we re-sign Spain and want to draft Johnson or Green as his heir, that would be fine. But we can't go into the draft locked into finding a starting O-lineman. 

We don't need to go after Armstead or trade for Tunsil but we do need to sign 4 veteran O-linemen in free agency. 

Jensen would be fine as would Ben Jones, Bradley Bozeman, or Brian Allen.

Morgan Moses would work at RT, he's a small upgrade from Reiff

At guard, there are a bunch of good veteran guards on the market. Names like Laken Tomlinson, Connor Williams, James Daniels, Alex Cappa, Brandon Scherff, Mark Glowinski, Austin Corbett, and Andrew Norwell, all of whom ranked higher with PFF than Spain.

 

[fluhartz]

 

 

yes please