Our Coordinators

[MrOaktown_56]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

What's shocking @holyghost is the fact that the Raider have been historically bad under KNJ and JDR has refused to make a change. Which tells me all I need to know. He's looking out for his good friend.

Right or wrong....Denver fired a decent OC today, turning to Musgrave because of their shortcomings. It send a message. KNJ has been allowed to keep his job despite being completely bad at it. Just historically awful. It's unfathomable to me. 

I mean hell... most of us here though Pagano was brought in to be the DC if/when KNJ fell on his face again. And we're STILL WAITING!! 

Pagano should be DC right now, but JDR will likely look to save face by making changes in the offseason.

[raidr4life]

2 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

"Raiders WR Amari Cooper ran just 11 routes from the slot (23.4%) against a #Patriots team that ranks last in the NFL in slot defense. He brought in his only target from the slot for 13 yards."

Yep.

 This staff seems to not have a clue about game planning.

[Darbsk]

19 hours ago, holyghost said:

No doubt it's appalling. I thought the only way they could manage Brady (not that they could, which I knew they could not) is certainly to at least tighten the coverage at the line. Along with of course an interior pass rush from someone other than Mack. Which is the part we all know would never happen, because the rest of the DL is staright garbage play in and play out.

You can't play off on a QB and offense who will feast on 4 yard passes all day. It's execution at it's best. So they come out playing the same loose crap keeping everything "in front of them". Yeah, sure. But that only works if you're playing a dummy team that can't execute simple things repetitively or is too dumb to take the yards given and tries for things that aren't there. Raiders play defense like they're playing against the Raiders. Which makes me think they're just practicing with these guys, letting them go in practice, then going into games like it's a practice scrimmage, without any opponent-specific plan? And they also play offense like schoolyard crap. Let your players beat the opponents. Sure.. Works in the schoolyard when you're bigger and faster. It also works in practice because the defense is such a piece of garbage. I bet that plays into it. How much can your offense learn in practice going against such an idiot defense?

But in the NFL it helps if your coaches can, you know, contribute something intelligent to challenge your opponents into errors and failures. You know, like every other coach is hired to do? No wonder we're getting killed. Every other coach and coordinator we play understands it's their job to try to outthink our coaches. And our coaches think "let the players play". Morons. 

 

Terrible staff. But then again, is there anyone who thought it was the right thing to fire the OC who succeeded and keep the DC who failed terribly? Musgrave biases and opinions  notwithstanding, noone thought that made sense comparatively. Lo and behold, it was absolutely the reverse of the right thing to do just like every single fan and media person suspected. 

So.... how does a head coach do the thing that literally every single person in the Raider universe thought was out of whack, and think he is right somehow? That's a wow.

I agree with the majority of this post and there are some good observations, however, I don't recall the fan base in particular being against the promotion of Downing and the firing of Musgrave, in fact I think the majority of people here thought Musgrave was a poor co-ordinator - I was definitely in the minority here with my support for Musgrave throughout last season.

For me, I still would be fine with Jack Del Rio as HC. I see him as a good motivator, disciplinarian and a coach the players respect - he's shown he has belief in them like the Saints game last year and numerous other tough calls where he's consistently backed his players. However, I don't think he's a very tactical coach or a great X's and O's guy so for him to have a novice OC and a motivator rather than a strategic DC is very counter productive. I think we need more cerebral co-ordinators and this would free Del Rio to motivate and lead the players, it worked very well I thought with Musgrave last year but JDR and Norton were too similar on the defensive side. If I were Big Reggie, I'd give him another chance next year but insist we have more cerebral co-ordinators and let JDR do his thing while the co-ordinators work out the X's and O's.

I maybe would wait until the end of the season before making such big changes simply as there would be more choice of co-ordinators then and I think we'd be a very attractive destination which would further increase our options. If we fire both now, we have limited choices and though we may see some improvement we want the best options possible moving forward long term IMHO.

[Chali21]

25 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I agree with the majority of this post and there are some good observations, however, I don't recall the fan base in particular being against the promotion of Downing and the firing of Musgrave, in fact I think the majority of people here thought Musgrave was a poor co-ordinator - I was definitely in the minority here with my support for Musgrave throughout last season.

For me, I still would be fine with Jack Del Rio as HC. I see him as a good motivator, disciplinarian and a coach the players respect - he's shown he has belief in them like the Saints game last year and numerous other tough calls where he's consistently backed his players. However, I don't think he's a very tactical coach or a great X's and O's guy so for him to have a novice OC and a motivator rather than a strategic DC is very counter productive. I think we need more cerebral co-ordinators and this would free Del Rio to motivate and lead the players, it worked very well I thought with Musgrave last year but JDR and Norton were too similar on the defensive side. If I were Big Reggie, I'd give him another chance next year but insist we have more cerebral co-ordinators and let JDR do his thing while the co-ordinators work out the X's and O's.

I maybe would wait until the end of the season before making such big changes simply as there would be more choice of co-ordinators then and I think we'd be a very attractive destination which would further increase our options. If we fire both now, we have limited choices and though we may see some improvement we want the best options possible moving forward long term IMHO.

Here's the thing, I remember when Dennis Allen was hired as HC, there where many who thought that he was going to be the next big HC. Heck there where articles that had him in the same coaching tier as Belachick. Anyways I said that to say this, no one can really project what coaches can do. Downing was viewed as a guy who could be the next big thing because he was going to do what Musgrave had been doing last year with some added wrinkles. At the time that seemed great to a fan base who's team was the number 6th offense in the NFL. Personally I think Downing would benefit from having a Offensive HC to help him with the play calling and situational stuff.

 

On JDR, yeah hes a rah rah motivator type but if you look at how this team has played against both the Patriots and  Bills the team has come out pretty flat. Obviously the team was unprepared which is really telling considering how long they've had to prepare for both teams. Honestly more often then not this season they've looked flat. Really in only 3 of their wins have they looked like the team of last year.

 

On scheme, I think that JDR is going to implement whatever scheme that he thinks is best which is the 4-3 scheme that he's ran his whole career. Which is why they haven't made the switch to Pagano who is primarily a 3-4 guy. It's also probably why they didn't try to get Wade Philips to be the DC. I just can't see him bringing in a Xs and Os type because he's not that guy. Great HC's know their weaknesses and have guys that cover those up. McVay in LA got Philips to run his defense, Zimmer got first Norv Turner and then Pat Shurmer to run his offense. In fact the reason why people wanted JDR over Sparano was because he had connections in the NFL and could bring in a good coaching staff, as we've seen now that's not true.

 

I would wait until the end of the season as well but if I'm Mark Davis I'm seriously considering replacing him. The Raiders obviously have the talent to be a good team that can contend for a playoff spot and they need to see that.

[holyghost]

I went well out of my way to be clear my post was not regarding Musgrave biases and opinions. The use of the word "comparatively" was supposed to make it clearer as well.

I'm not comparing Musgrave vs. Downing. I was commenting how absurd it was to everyone to fire a successful OC and keep a failure at DC. One decision compared to another, that made sense to noone. When you go through a season where the good offense constantly bailed out a terrible defense, it's insanity to make offensive system changes and nothing on defense. No sense, and noone thought it made sense. Everyone hoped for the best, so did I, but that was predicated on Downing being qualified which now we know he is clearly not. And predicated on him keeping the rough plan in place while opening up the worse parts. Which he openly said in the press that he was going to do, but also did not. That aside, my post was about the above statements. It's hypocritical and blind of Del Rio to make the change he made when it clearly and fairly should have been reversed. At the very least if he absolutely had to go with Downing, Norton should have been canned along with Musgrave. Change both or just the DC. But to change the OC only is horse crap. And nearly everyone thought so, clear as day. 

Recalling that Downing openly said he would not change the offense but would add to it and maximize it, you see a pattern forming amongst the entire staff. No accountability. Says one thing, does another. JDR doesn't hold the right coaches and coordinators accountable. Downing isn't accountable for his statements and failures, Norton has never been held accountable for his complete failure, or the fact that he has nothing intelligent to say about his defense and how bad it is every week. And all these guys say is the team has to execute better, which is a total lack of accountability on their end. Even if they do, rarely, look at themselves for blame, they're vague which implies they don't believe it has anything to do with them. THEY have failed. Fans with no expertise can read stats and see we abandoned play action, we abandoned movement and motion, we're not really throwing deep, we're not focusing on using any number of skilled players effectively and consistently, we're not repeating our successes of last year, we're not exploiting weaknesses weekly in the opposing defense even when they are clear as day. They say things like "we self scouted in the bye week", but then against the worst slot defending defense in football they do not exploit the slot at all. We're not doing anything on defense better than last year in any way shape or form. And ALL of that is on ALL of the coaches. No accountability for their own errors and failures, which are stacking weekly.. Now we're looking at a team and staff wide culture of a lack of accountability. Players too now. Noone dropping pass after pass, or getting blasted off the line gets benched. It happens all the time on other teams, but not on ours. A very minute amount of tough and direct questions are asked after these abysmal losses. This is what you breed when you do not hold people accountable along the way. Now we have a whole team, staff and players, for whom doing what they say doesn't matter. And doing their job isn't a problem because whatever fails can only be chalked up to never having to acknowledge it was their job in the first place. 

[raidr4life]

Downing could have ran this all day.

[Silver&Black88]

5 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Downing could have ran this all day.

Bo Knows

[raidr4life]

On 11/20/2017 at 11:18 AM, Rich7sena said:

I don't even think he's their nickel anymore. He's has the 3rd most snaps on the team behind Slay, Diggs, and Lawson. Maybe that's why you think he's playing better, he barely sees the field.

Among CBs with 110+ coverage snaps, Ex-#Raiders CB DJ Hayden ranks 26th in passer rating allowed (71.4). No OAK corner ranks inside the top-75.

[Rich7sena]

34 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Among CBs with 110+ coverage snaps, Ex-#Raiders CB DJ Hayden ranks 26th in passer rating allowed (71.4). No OAK corner ranks inside the top-75.

Not bad for a dime corner I guess?

[raidr4life]

13 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Bo Knows

Haha Downing doesn't that's the problem.

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Among CBs with 110+ coverage snaps, Ex-#Raiders CB DJ Hayden ranks 26th in passer rating allowed (71.4). No OAK corner ranks inside the top-75.

Meh... totally different landscapes. Teryl Austin and the Lions run a much tighter system. He's seen as a HC candidate for a reason. Great at getting the most out of his players.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Meh... totally different landscapes. Teryl Austin and the Lions run a much tighter system. He's seen as a HC candidate for a reason. Great at getting the most out of his players.

Ok so what does that have to do with the fact that Hayden is doing better.

[Chali21]

6 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Ok so what does that have to do with the fact that Hayden is doing better.

The Raiders coaches are obviously worse. 

[SilverNBlackFan]

25 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

The Raiders coaches are obviously worse. 

Which brings into question just how many of our current players would be effective players like Hayden, if used correctly in their roles.

[Rich7sena]

It's becoming increasingly obvious the players played a part in preventing KNJ being let go earlier in his tenure. Both Bruce Irvin and Khalil Mack refused to comment on the situation and were healthy scratches from practice yesterday. It's easy to call for someone's head in the internet, but JDR has cultivated a family-like culture within the facility. It's a catch-22 between disrupting that culture and holding people accountable. We'll see exactly how much Pagano is willing to change. And if changes are made; how much will the defense improve?