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Will the KO Offense be a Knock Out?


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Question....

Obviously KOC still wants to have a strong running game. Every team does.

We all know Dalvin isn't the Dalvin of old and looks like he's on the career downslope as he enters his age 28 season....Mattison is a UFA.

Do we dare consider Bijan Robinson in the first round? Most mocks are putting him in the 23-31 range and he's projected to be a generational running back along the lines of Saquan.

Tough to draft an RB in the first round when we need DB's, a guard, and other defensive needs but having spent our top 2 picks last year on DBs but an elite running game/top-notch receiving RB with very good pass blocking to pair with Jefferson, Hock, maybe add a WR in the later rounds....it may be tempting. 

What say you?

Edited by Vikes_Bolts1228
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3 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Question....

Obviously KOC still wants to have a strong running game. Every team does.

We all know Dalvin isn't the Dalvin of old and looks like he's on the career downslope as he enters his age 28 season....Mattison is a UFA.

Do we dare consider Bijan Robinson in the first round? Most mocks are putting him in the 23-31 range and he's projected to be a generational running back along the lines of Saquan.

Tough to draft an RB in the first round when we need DB's, a guard, and other defensive needs but having spent our top 2 picks last year on DBs but an elite running game/top-notch receiving RB with very good pass blocking to pair with Jefferson, Hock, maybe add a WR in the later rounds....it may be tempting. 

What say you?

I am not sure RB in the 1st is a smart play for the Vikings. The need is for difference makers on the defense.  

The curious thing about Cook is he seems focused on breaking a long run that he is getting to cute behind the line of scrimmage.  He needs to go forward with authority. He's NOT Barry Sanders. 

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8 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Question....

Obviously KOC still wants to have a strong running game. Every team does.

We all know Dalvin isn't the Dalvin of old and looks like he's on the career downslope as he enters his age 28 season....Mattison is a UFA.

Do we dare consider Bijan Robinson in the first round? Most mocks are putting him in the 23-31 range and he's projected to be a generational running back along the lines of Saquan.

Tough to draft an RB in the first round when we need DB's, a guard, and other defensive needs but having spent our top 2 picks last year on DBs but an elite running game/top-notch receiving RB with very good pass blocking to pair with Jefferson, Hock, maybe add a WR in the later rounds....it may be tempting. 

What say you?

Unless 2-3 new starters on defense materialze in free agency, I'd say no. As it sits now, we only have 4 draft picks (might get 2 late compensatory picks). I fully expect us to trade out of Round 1 unless a QB, top CB or 3-4 DE fall. 

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8 hours ago, Captain Relax said:

I am not sure RB in the 1st is a smart play for the Vikings. The need is for difference makers on the defense.  

The curious thing about Cook is he seems focused on breaking a long run that he is getting to cute behind the line of scrimmage.  He needs to go forward with authority. He's NOT Barry Sanders. 

Is that what he's doing, being "cute" this year? One could argue that he's being patient waiting for the line to open up something. It's often seen as a quality in a running back and typically puts the onus on the o-line, not the Running back. So it's either he's running into his own blockers which I've heard from commenters here and elsewhere, or he's not being decisive enough. If it's both then that doesn't seem like Dalvin Cook. He didn't suddenly unlearn how to be a competent RB, and his vision was one of his better assets in previous seasons. I'm sure he'd rather pick up yards one way or another rather than be cute. Is he getting cute behind the line of scrimmage over and over again or is the defense reading the play and/or lineman are getting smoked into the backfield?

To that end I've read that the Vikings have allowed more stops behind the line of scrimmage than any team by a wide margin since the bye week. This sounds like a scheme issue -- a timing issue -- the defense reading the play. All of that doesn't matter if you have a pre-conceived idea about the guy out of context of everything else.

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15 hours ago, babababa said:

Is that what he's doing, being "cute" this year? One could argue that he's being patient waiting for the line to open up something. It's often seen as a quality in a running back and typically puts the onus on the o-line, not the Running back. So it's either he's running into his own blockers which I've heard from commenters here and elsewhere, or he's not being decisive enough. If it's both then that doesn't seem like Dalvin Cook. He didn't suddenly unlearn how to be a competent RB, and his vision was one of his better assets in previous seasons. I'm sure he'd rather pick up yards one way or another rather than be cute. Is he getting cute behind the line of scrimmage over and over again or is the defense reading the play and/or lineman are getting smoked into the backfield?

To that end I've read that the Vikings have allowed more stops behind the line of scrimmage than any team by a wide margin since the bye week. This sounds like a scheme issue -- a timing issue -- the defense reading the play. All of that doesn't matter if you have a pre-conceived idea about the guy out of context of everything else.

It's his decisiveness that needs to improve.  Getting back to the line of scrimmage is better than losing yardage.  Or is that an old fashioned notion?

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2 hours ago, Captain Relax said:

It's his decisiveness that needs to improve.  Getting back to the line of scrimmage is better than losing yardage.  Or is that an old fashioned notion?

Unless he's Barry Sanders, getting back to the line of scrimmage is always better.  From what I've seen, he does dance around a little too much, but when he does make a decision, I'm not sure his vision is as sharp as it once was, as he seems to run right into the tackle.  

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On 12/13/2022 at 1:28 PM, swede700 said:

If his cap number comes down, I'm more than willing to bring Dalvin back because he's still going to be better than those 2.  I'm not trusting Chandler in the primary role (as I'd have to think that Nwangwu would still be a change-of-pace back).  I liked what he did in the preseason, but again, that was preseason.  

That's fair, how much would it need to come down for you? Cook is statistically a top 10 RB in most, if not all, RB categories. 10th highest cap number for an RB in 2023 is currently Leonard Fournette with a cap hit of $8.5M per OTC.

I'm also not a fan of taking on too much dead money but also realize adding void years, which I'm still not 100% on how they work, may be the best way to get that cap number down. I guess if they can get the cap number to below $10M that would be a step in the right direction. I'd prefer it to be $9M or lower.

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3 hours ago, swede700 said:

Unless he's Barry Sanders, getting back to the line of scrimmage is always better.  From what I've seen, he does dance around a little too much, but when he does make a decision, I'm not sure his vision is as sharp as it once was, as he seems to run right into the tackle.  

I've seen him run into the tackler too (Budda Baker). And that particular play may have been a statement. I think he seeks out contact sometimes despite what some seem to think. It's all over the map with Cook. If you're saying he can't see the field though, as in sense or literally see the hole, I doubt it as that sense doesn't just go away. If anything that sense increases with a veteran RB. More likely he's waiting for the hole to open -- not dancing to be cute. Why would he not take the hole if it materializes? The scheme might have more to do with that as he's less ahead of steam when he's lined up to the side of Cousins. It's not the strongest position for a downhill running style, and if guys are sluggish at developing a hole when he doesn't have momentum it looks like he's hesitating -- because there's probably a reason.

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It's pretty obvious just watching that his elite burst is gone. He's going to need to transition into a RB that takes what the defense is giving him rather than the homerun hitter that he's always been. He's still got the top end speed, it just takes him longer to get there than it has in the past. 

The offensive line has graded as a really good run blocking unit, like top 5 in the league per PFF. Darrisaw being out has hampered the run game a ton.

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6 hours ago, Captain Relax said:

It's his decisiveness that needs to improve.  Getting back to the line of scrimmage is better than losing yardage.  Or is that an old fashioned notion?

No I agree. Dalvin and Mattison aren't kids anymore. They were preached in the old school manner. That said it's 50/50. The line has to open stuff up and/or the run blitzers have to be accounted for. I just went back and watched some of the game and both Dalvin and Mattison get swarmed the second they touched the ball -- sometime by 2 Lions before they even hit the line of scrimmage on several plays. THAT'S NOT ON THE RB! The offense has to adjust. Audible out of a run play if the defense looks like they are going to fire.

Ex. On the Vikings 1st drive on Dalvin's 2nd run Hutchinson swam over O'Neal INSTANTLY and hit Dalvin while another Lion was in the backfield on his Left. Instead of running forward Cook turned his back and secured the ball right before the 3 of them collided. 

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7 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

It's pretty obvious just watching that his elite burst is gone. He's going to need to transition into a RB that takes what the defense is giving him rather than the homerun hitter that he's always been. He's still got the top end speed, it just takes him longer to get there than it has in the past. 

The offensive line has graded as a really good run blocking unit, like top 5 in the league per PFF. Darrisaw being out has hampered the run game a ton.

There's nothing "PRETTY OBVIOUS" about that. That's a loaded statement that only certain fans echo -- certain fans being many on this particular site granted.

The run blocking hasn't been there lately. Re-watch the last 3 games if you need proof of that. There's also the statistic that the Vikings have been stopped in the backfield more than any other team since the bye week. And that particular point was just argued so I'm not going to start in on that again.

Ultimately it's about money (JJ's new shoes) while keeping your favorites in Purple. I see through all of that. That's why the pile-on becomes about Cook being cut or taking a substantial cut. Should he take a substantial cut -- yes that may happen (echo).

And the only way for that to happen is to control the narrative while saying things like:

"It's pretty obvious Dalvin has lost a step...has lost vision...can't catch a pass...is indecisive...gets tackled too easy...fumbles...gets injured all the time."

week after week.

 

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1 hour ago, babababa said:

There's nothing "PRETTY OBVIOUS" about that. That's a loaded statement that only certain fans echo -- certain fans being many on this particular site granted.

The run blocking hasn't been there lately. Re-watch the last 3 games if you need proof of that. There's also the statistic that the Vikings have been stopped in the backfield more than any other team since the bye week. And that particular point was just argued so I'm not going to start in on that again.

Ultimately it's about money (JJ's new shoes) while keeping your favorites in Purple. I see through all of that. That's why the pile-on becomes about Cook being cut or taking a substantial cut. Should he take a substantial cut -- yes that may happen (echo).

And the only way for that to happen is to control the narrative while saying things like:

"It's pretty obvious Dalvin has lost a step...has lost vision...can't catch a pass...is indecisive...gets tackled too easy...fumbles...gets injured all the time."

week after week.

 

Man, if you can’t tell that he doesn’t get to top gear as quickly idk what to tell you. He used to beat guys around the edge with ease, and this year he’s being met in the backfield often. Even to the left with Darrisaw as one of the best run blockers in the league. I acknowledged that he’s been out and it’s impacted run blocking.

it’s not even a criticism of him! I blame zimmer a ton for running him into the ground, and 28 is about when wear and tear catches up with guys. But he’s definitely lost his acceleration/burst. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that some of his physical tools are deteriorating? It happens to guys, and that’s ok.

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