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Sllim Pickens

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I'm still very high on Chad Muma and think his combine support him as a future 3 down LB. Especially if we are going to move to a 4-3, I'd like to see us add him. I'll take Diet Luke Kuechly to man the middle for us for the next several years. He'll probably be there at #34 but I don't see him being available for us at 66. 

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45 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

But combine numbers are not jiving with the on field play.  He was projected high to start the year, with the expectation eh would develop more as a pass rusher.  He had a lower grade than just about everyone around him on PFF (Walker, Wyatt, Dean).  So he had that athleticism to go with four other All-Americans on his defensive front and still didn't produce pressure.  That scares me much more than the combine numbers intrigue me.  

Side note, Davis had fallen out of the first round in most mocks since mid season. 

Pff is the reason you don't know how to scout and why I know you've never watched a full season of Jordan Davis. You didn't learn a dang thing from your Jeff Okudah scouting program. 

Maybe... All those pass rush numbers got inflated by Davis cause he took out the tough downs and distances and let those four players feast when it came time to feast. Long 3rd downs, weaker blockers, 1on1's, predictable downs/play calls, favorable positioning for themselves vs taking on blockers. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone really, I'm not picking anything at 2... but just when I see you post. I almost for sure know you don't know what you're really talking about. Saying Davis doesn't move on film... thats not right... maybe the stat sheet but the dude moves. You can't help but hear who ever is announcing the game mention it at some point.

Edited by SimbaWho
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7 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

Pff is the reason you don't know how to scout and why I know you've never watched a full season of Jordan Davis. You didn't learn a dang thing from your Jeff Okudah scouting program. 

Maybe... All those pass rush numbers got inflated by Davis cause he took out the tough downs and distances and let those four players feast when it came time to feast.

Those four players didn't feast though.  And yes I use PFF, along with multiple other scouting resources as well as limited film, to form an opinion.  Davis made some plays, when I watched him against Michigan he made a great play on Corum.  He also didn't show up much the rest of the game.  I don't have the time or desire to watch each and every prospect for 12/24 games.  But I do analyze stats and trends for a living, and when someone trends with low sack counts for their career, they don't just all of a sudden turn out amazing numbers out of nowhere.  Big guys that move well like Watt, Donald, etc all put up sack numbers in college.  Davis has been very poor in that aspect of his game. 

Sure he may be a guy who eats blocks and thats his job.  But I am not spending a top 10 pick on a guy to eat blocks.  Also PFF grades based on what his job is supposed to be on a given play.  A low score means he wasn't great at what he was supposed to be doing.  

Okudah I watched more than most prospects, given I still like the Buckeyes.  He was a shut down corner, and I and many others saw that.  Patricia set him up to fail.  See what happens with Glenn/Pleasant. 

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Now you are just saying things to fit your narrative. Wyatt/Donald aren't comparable and you are only saying them to exaggerate sack numbers. Wyatt was a fringe DT/DE and Donald was considered small. Neither are a mobile 330 pound NT.

I gave great comparable's and if you say you don't want a Vita Vea type player at 2 then fine. I even understand.

But don't paint the brush he's Terrance Cody 2.0 cause he's not.

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11 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

Now you are just saying things to fit your narrative. Wyatt/Donald aren't comparable and you are only saying them to exaggerate sack numbers. Wyatt was a fringe DT/DE and Donald was considered small. Neither are a mobile 330 pound NT.

I gave great comparable's and if you say you don't want a Vita Vea type player at 2 then fine. I even understand.

But don't paint the brush he's Terrance Cody 2.0 cause he's not.

I think Vea is a good comparison athletically.  And maybe a good comparison for numbers.  But there is zero chance I'd take Vea at 2.  I probably wouldnt take it at 12 where Vea was drafted.    Especially when we have a similar player that showed progress throughout the year in McNeil.  

My point in using guys like Donald and Watt, they are DT's worthy of being taken in the top of the draft.  They were big guys that moved well and flew up draft boards.  hey provide pass rush, which is much harder to find than someone taking on blocks.  People seem to think because Davis broke records for someone at 340 lbs, that he is all of a sudden worth that pick.  If am wrong and they dont expect his athletic numbers to turn into sacks, then I would say its foolish to draft because of his athleticism to do a job that is based on strength and limits the use of his athleticism, and would pretty much just make him a more athletic Terrence Cody (I think he is better than Cody, but Cody was solid in college too).

Davis would be a great pick if we trade down to the late teens and decide we are going with the 4-3 and Levi Onwuzirike has no value. 

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I was high on Davis before the combine. The combine just made me raise my eyebrows and think he had more potential than what I originally thought. I don’t think he’s going to turn into a pass rusher. In fact, I don’t remember seeing anyone say this. I like my defense not getting gashed up the middle on the run. I like my lb to be free to make plays. I like to make an offense one dimensional. This is where I think his value is at.

im still at a loss at how Georgia had a phenomenal defense and somehow all their players are subpar? How does that work?

and just to be clear, I’d still rather have hutch or Hamilton at 2, but after that I’m not sold on anyone else at 2 and Davis and McNeil sound good next to one another. At least to me.

I haven’t seen a mock with Davis in the 2nd for a while…

pff February Jordan Davis 17

tankathon March 3 Jordan Davis 29

draftwire March 1 Jordan Davis 21

NFL.com february 14 Jordan Davis 17

Si.com january 25 Jordan Davis 25

Mel kiper January 19 Jordan Davis 17

the athletic December 14 Jordan Davis 14

Above is what I’ve been seeing. Not sure about the second round? I saw him at number 8 but don’t remember where. If I find it, I’ll post it back here.

 

 

Edited by LionArkie
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27 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I was high on Davis before the combine. The combine just made me raise my eyebrows and think he had more potential than what I originally thought. I don’t think he’s going to turn into a pass rusher. In fact, I don’t remember seeing anyone say this. I like my defense not getting gashed up the middle on the run. I like my lb to be free to make plays. I like to make an offense one dimensional. This is where I think his value is at.

im still at a loss at how Georgia had a phenomenal defense and somehow all their players are subpar? How does that work?

and just to be clear, I’d still rather have hutch or Hamilton at 2, but after that I’m not sold on anyone else at 2 and Davis and McNeil sound good next to one another. At least to me.

I haven’t seen a mock with Davis in the 2nd for a while…

pff February Jordan Davis 17

tankathon March 3 Jordan Davis 29

draftwire March 1 Jordan Davis 21

NFL.com february 14 Jordan Davis 17

Si.com january 25 Jordan Davis 25

Mel kiper January 19 Jordan Davis 17

Above is what I’ve been seeing. Not sure about the second round? I saw him at number 8 but don’t remember where. If I find it, I’ll post it back here.

 

 

I just cant see wasting an impactful pick on not an overly impactful position, no matter the player.  The only DT's I would take in the top 5/10 are if they are Ndamukong Suh/Aaron Donald types.  Drafting a big block eater that high is foolish IMO.  Having an elite S is far more important than the position Davis plays and I am skeptical on Hamilton now.  But his tape shows a lot more than what the combine showed so its the opposite dilemma.  But I will always go by tape over a 40 time.    

Also Georgia had a great defense because so many on that D were well above average.  They didn't have a bad graded defender in their starting lineup, they just didn't have a single dominant one either.  Wyatt, Dean, and Cine all posted great  Its what has scared me about Bama players in the past.  Are their RB's great because the O Line and WRs are great or vice versa.  Or are they all really just great players.  Georgia had the 7th best sack production in 2021, and no player had more than 6.5.  So it makes sense that none have great counting/traditional stats.  Combine that with PFF ratings and it makes sense that they were a sound D with everyone doing what they are supposed to most of the time.  

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6 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I just cant see wasting an impactful pick on not an overly impactful position, no matter the player.  The only DT's I would take in the top 5/10 are if they are Ndamukong Suh/Aaron Donald types.  Drafting a big block eater that high is foolish IMO.  Having an elite S is far more important than the position Davis plays and I am skeptical on Hamilton now.  But his tape shows a lot more than what the combine showed so its the opposite dilemma.  But I will always go by tape over a 40 time.    

Also Georgia had a great defense because so many on that D were well above average.  They didn't have a bad graded defender in their starting lineup, they just didn't have a single dominant one either.  Wyatt, Dean, and Cine all posted great  Its what has scared me about Bama players in the past.  Are their RB's great because the O Line and WRs are great or vice versa.  Or are they all really just great players.  Georgia had the 7th best sack production in 2021, and no player had more than 6.5.  So it makes sense that none have great counting/traditional stats.  Combine that with PFF ratings and it makes sense that they were a sound D with everyone doing what they are supposed to most of the time.  

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I prefer the interior pass rush over just a run stuffer. But if hutch goes 1, and if for some reason Hamilton isn’t the pick then I honestly don’t know who I want at 2. Having a guy that takes on two players leaves someone free. Similar to what he did at Georgia. I can think of worse things and I don’t think he’ll bust. I would love a trade down, but it’s not going to happen. I admit 2 is high for him, but if it’s a matter of taking him or Malik willis, then I’m all in on Davis. I’ll take my John Henderson clone.

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18 hours ago, LionArkie said:

im still at a loss at how Georgia had a phenomenal defense and somehow all their players are subpar? How does that work?

It's like the 2004 Detroit Pistons. They were all good, but none were considered the best players. But together, they were magical. No one is saying the Georgia defenders are bad, I just don't think any one of them were dominant, nor worth a top 5 pick. And I'm still higher on Nakobe than most, apparently, and Cine. Still wouldn't take either of top at #2 either. I can like a players skill set, see their potential, marvel as the prospect and still admit their are others who are better, better players, better value, etc. Davis is an end of the 1st/early 2nd rd pick. There is always a team that makes a shocking pick at the end of the first based on combine numbers, Davis could be that guy. He's not a top 5-10 player in this draft.

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19 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think Vea is a good comparison athletically.  And maybe a good comparison for numbers.  But there is zero chance I'd take Vea at 2.  I probably wouldnt take it at 12 where Vea was drafted.    Especially when we have a similar player that showed progress throughout the year in McNeil.  

My point in using guys like Donald and Watt, they are DT's worthy of being taken in the top of the draft.  They were big guys that moved well and flew up draft boards.  hey provide pass rush, which is much harder to find than someone taking on blocks.  People seem to think because Davis broke records for someone at 340 lbs, that he is all of a sudden worth that pick.  If am wrong and they dont expect his athletic numbers to turn into sacks, then I would say its foolish to draft because of his athleticism to do a job that is based on strength and limits the use of his athleticism, and would pretty much just make him a more athletic Terrence Cody (I think he is better than Cody, but Cody was solid in college too).

Davis would be a great pick if we trade down to the late teens and decide we are going with the 4-3 and Levi Onwuzirike has no value. 

I think Vea was a better prospect college player on film than Davis was. And I'd have taken Vea at #12. 

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2 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

It's like the 2004 Detroit Pistons. They were all good, but none were considered the best players. But together, they were magical. No one is saying the Georgia defenders are bad, I just don't think any one of them were dominant, nor worth a top 5 pick. And I'm still higher on Nakobe than most, apparently, and Cine. Still wouldn't take either of top at #2 either. I can like a players skill set, see their potential, marvel as the prospect and still admit their are others who are better, better players, better value, etc. Davis is an end of the 1st/early 2nd rd pick. There is always a team that makes a shocking pick at the end of the first based on combine numbers, Davis could be that guy. He's not a top 5-10 player in this draft.

The closest comparison might be the Clemson D-Line with Clelin Ferrell, Dexter Lawrence, Austin Bryant and Christian Wilkins.  Wilkins has become borderline dominant.  Lawrence is solid.  Ferrell and Bryant haven't made a whole lot of noise in the NFL.

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