TheOnlyThing Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: But really, if the Browns get their first win of the season against us, does McCarthy get fired? I don't know how you can't fire him in that scenario. If the Pack can't be a woeful, and at this point winless Browns team, why would the GM who put this roster together not be worthy of being shown the door? I mean if Hundley sucks it certainly destroys the notion that McCarthy is anything special when it comes to developing QBs. But who was it that traded up to select Hundley and made the decision that he, not Case Keenum or any other veteran, was the anointed one as the backup QB? And with the D continuing to suck after 6 years of disproportionate draft resources being poured into the unit, should the GM not also be held responsible for the Jerrel Worthy's, Kyri Thornton's, Quentin Rollins, Kyler Fackrell, etc. BUSTS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: But really, if the Browns get their first win of the season against us, does McCarthy get fired? I don't know how you can't fire him in that scenario. Idk, I have a hard time seeing it. There are some ways I wish he was different, but he’s generally been a lock to produce a top-5ish offense. I don’t think it’s entirely Arod either. There’s a difference in rolling w/ a mediocre QB starting in training camp plus $5 mil extra cap, and scrambling w/ emergency bottom-of-the-barrel replacements like Wallace/Tolzien/Hundley mid-season. Plus, the whole team has been wrecked by injury, even before Arod went out. The key factor I’d also worry about is Arod’s extension. How’s a MM firing going to sit w/ him if he likes MM? & having to start over w/ a new offense in his twilight years. Don’t really know their relationship, but it seems like it could be a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, TransientTexan said: IThe key factor I’d also worry about is Arod’s extension. How’s a MM firing going to sit w/ him if he likes MM? & having to start over w/ a new offense in his twilight years. Don’t really know their relationship, but it seems like it could be a risk. This is the most insightful point/post I've seen posted on this board in weeks. The team is ARod and that is now clear to everyone involved. If ARod believes it would be too disruptive for MM to leave, I agree with you MM should stay. However, who knows if ARod has not been frustrated with MM for some time (there have been rumblings about their relationship) and the current situation does not push him over the edge when it comes to moving on from MM? The reality is someone in a position of authority who is not partial to MM, either a GM that would succeed Ted or Murphy likely, would have to have a frank discussion with ARod to guage his opinion about MM staying at some point. If TT stays, there is no way in Hades that MM is going anywhere, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said: If the Pack can't be a woeful, and at this point winless Browns team, why would the GM who put this roster together not be worthy of being shown the door? I mean if Hundley sucks it certainly destroys the notion that McCarthy is anything special when it comes to developing QBs. But who was it that traded up to select Hundley and made the decision that he, not Case Keenum or any other veteran, was the anointed one as the backup QB? And with the D continuing to suck after 6 years of disproportionate draft resources being poured into the unit, should the GM not also be held responsible for the Jerrel Worthy's, Kyri Thornton's, Quentin Rollins, Kyler Fackrell, etc. BUSTS? I think McCarthy will stick at least one more year, he'll get another chance with us purely with his resume as an NFL coach knowing the Packers. I think they need to start looking at a different scheme both offense and defense. Clearly things arent working. McCarthy I think is a good leader of men as a coach, but he has gotten worse with his playcalling every year. We rely on Rodgers to make impossible throws, and scramble someone open. The defense relies on unique pressures, if we can't get there, it's gameover. Our coverages are bad, we hardly get off the field, which leaves us gassed and the offense shreads us. I think our personnel is fine for the most part, we can't just replace everyone on it. We just need better depth on defense, specifically pass rushers and a few more corners. I'll be happy if we had 2 new coordinators and McCarthy handling coaching duties, a fresh start in schemes. I know it didn't turn out well a few years ago where McCarthy had to take the playcalling duties back, but that was Tom Clements, don't think our expectations were high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said: The reality is someone in a position of authority who is not partial to MM, either a GM that would succeed Ted or Murphy likely, would have to have a frank discussion with ARod to guage his opinion about MM staying at some point. I also wonder if Arod would insist on getting an Offense-focused HC to replace MM, or if he’d be ok w/ a defense-focused one. Defense would seem the most ideal to me since that’d be the most probable way of getting a stud DC in the org by offering a promotion to HC. Those types of pairings seem to aid success (Belichick/Brady, Dungy/Manning, Carroll/Wilson, Quinn/Ryan). If Arod is as exclusively responsible for the offense success as people say, he shouldn’t need a great offense-mind HC to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2012 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I know a lot of you want McCarthy's head and in many ways so do I. But this team is failing not so much because of this coach, but because of the personnel or lack of talent thereof. How is Micah Hyde and Casey Heyward doing these days. How did TJ look last night. Hey it would be nice to have Peppers or JC Tretter right about now. Nick Perry got his money and I have not heard his name called in 6 weeks. Mathews is practice squad talent at this point. Ted Thompson must go at the end of the year and Dom Capers must go now. I say keep McCarthy for at least 1 more year and give the guy some credit for making the Packers relevant even with a GM who cannot draft consistent talent. Brett Hundley played like a 5th round draft pick who took too many sacks in college and threw too many interceptions. Hundley has half the Packer fans screaming for Tyson Hill, which we know won't make much of a difference. If Kapernick wasn't such a jerk I would suggest checking him out. Bruce Gradkowski anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jontat83 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Honestly we might not win another game this season. Browns is the only game maybe, but that's not a given and I bet they might be favored in that one if we continue to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 43 minutes ago, gizmo2012 said: I know a lot of you want McCarthy's head and in many ways so do I. But this team is failing not so much because of this coach, but because of the personnel or lack of talent thereof. How is Micah Hyde and Casey Heyward doing these days. How did TJ look last night. Hey it would be nice to have Peppers or JC Tretter right about now. Nick Perry got his money and I have not heard his name called in 6 weeks. Mathews is practice squad talent at this point. Ted Thompson must go at the end of the year and Dom Capers must go now. I say keep McCarthy for at least 1 more year and give the guy some credit for making the Packers relevant even with a GM who cannot draft consistent talent. Brett Hundley played like a 5th round draft pick who took too many sacks in college and threw too many interceptions. Hundley has half the Packer fans screaming for Tyson Hill, which we know won't make much of a difference. If Kapernick wasn't such a jerk I would suggest checking him out. Bruce Gradkowski anyone? You make the point that TT does draft talent. Those guys you mention were drafted by TT and weren't developed by the staff. MM's offensive scheme survives ONLY because of ARod's playmaking ability. ARod needs a new type of attack because the scramble drill that is the heart of MMs scheme is going to get him killed. We got a new coach in the twilight of Favre's career and it revitalized him. Get a new head coach and you'll see ARod soar to new heights. Let Hundley struggle this year, MM's playcalling will assure that. Take a top 10 pick and move on. This staff has run its course. The 'culture' has grown stale and it is time for a new perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 hours ago, TransientTexan said: Plus, the whole team has been wrecked by injury, even before Arod went out. Name one starter who missed last night's game other than Aaron Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Name one starter who missed last night's game other than Aaron Rodgers. Did I say "last night"? No. And I think it is silly to base evaluations on such a limited sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said: And with the D continuing to suck after 6 years of disproportionate draft resources being poured into the unit, should the GM not also be held responsible for the Jerrel Worthy's, Kyri Thornton's, Quentin Rollins, Kyler Fackrell, etc. BUSTS? Dude, you need to stop this. In a time when people are agreeing with your negative takes, you need to do a better job of picking your battles. We know our team is devoid of talent right now, or at least the talent isn't coached well enough. You have to stop complaining about these late picks. Look through the second-third round picks of literally every other team and you'll find twice as many busts as we've had in Thompson's time here, and Thompson really is one of the best GMs in football at finding later round value. I dislike Fackrell more than I've disliked literally any player on defense in my entire time watching football or even professional sports, but I'm not going to blame Thompson for it. Same with Rollins. They looked at Rollins and saw a basketball player who flashed major potential when he moved to football. As a GM, how can you not think to yourself that's the Antonio Gates of the corner position? You're bringing up second-third round picks that have busted and you come up with four busts. From the second-third rounds. I'm going to direct your attention to the Seahawks, who you always say are ten times better at drafting (or who others say). Germain Ifedi was a first round pick. Paul Richardson was their first pick that year. Christine Michael was their first pick the year before. Shaquil Griffin, Delano Hill, Nick Vannett, Prosise, Jordan Hill... By all means complain about Thompson not being more aggressive in the draft (trading up and not stockpiling later picks). Complain about him not signing big free agents (there's an argument there at least). Complain about Datone Jones. Complain about Damarious Randall (even though he's turning it around). Complain about the backup QB situation. Complain about literally anything and I'll acknowlege and probably maybe even agree with your complaints, but please... I'm genuinely asking you as a human being who is capable of context... I KNOW YOU HAVE IT IN YOU, I BELIEVE IN YOU! PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SECOND - SEVENTH ROUND BUSTS! WE HIT MORE REGULARLY ON MID TO LATE ROUND PICKS THAN ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. IT IS NOT A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT. IT NEVER WAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, TransientTexan said: Did I say "last night"? No. And I think it is silly to base evaluations on such a limited sample. We were 4-1 with all those injuries because we had Aaron Rodgers. As we've been getting healthier without him in three consecutive games, we've lost those three consecutive games. Also, you're literally the most sensitive person on here. Did I just say that? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 hours ago, TransientTexan said: I also wonder if Arod would insist on getting an Offense-focused HC to replace MM, or if he’d be ok w/ a defense-focused one. Defense would seem the most ideal to me since that’d be the most probable way of getting a stud DC in the org by offering a promotion to HC. Those types of pairings seem to aid success (Belichick/Brady, Dungy/Manning, Carroll/Wilson, Quinn/Ryan). If Arod is as exclusively responsible for the offense success as people say, he shouldn’t need a great offense-mind HC to help. If you want a coach for the long haul he's going to need to be able to develop a successor to Aaron Rodgers. I'd stick with a QB whisperer type head coach, and throw a ton of money at someone like Vic Fangio to run the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said: If the Pack can't be a woeful, and at this point winless Browns team, why would the GM who put this roster together not be worthy of being shown the door? I mean if Hundley sucks it certainly destroys the notion that McCarthy is anything special when it comes to developing QBs. But who was it that traded up to select Hundley and made the decision that he, not Case Keenum or any other veteran, was the anointed one as the backup QB? And with the D continuing to suck after 6 years of disproportionate draft resources being poured into the unit, should the GM not also be held responsible for the Jerrel Worthy's, Kyri Thornton's, Quentin Rollins, Kyler Fackrell, etc. BUSTS? Is it the GM drafting busts or is it the coaching staff screwing everything up? Something has to give this offseason for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Also, you're literally the most sensitive person on here. Did I just say that? Yes. ROFL, you of all people... that's quite a bit of projection on your part. you are the epitome of emotional knee-jerks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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