Jump to content

Let's predict the season: Hundley Version


MacReady

Recommended Posts

Just now, {Family Ghost} said:

If you want a coach for the long haul he's going to need to be able to develop a successor to Aaron Rodgers.  I'd stick with a QB whisperer type head coach, and throw a ton of money at someone like Vic Fangio to run the defense.  

I'm with you.  Keep MM as long as we have #12.   It is unfortunate that Hundley doesn't appear to be what Ted and MM thought he was.  Finding an NFL caliber QB from the college ranks isn't easy.  IMO QB is the one position that is the hardest to find in the draft unless you are drafting in the top 5 and even then it isn't a sure bet.

The defensive side the ball is what is a disaster.  If we had a functioning defense we might have had a chance last night even with a mediocre QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You have to stop complaining about these late picks.  Thompson really is one of the best GMs in football at finding later round value.  

You're bringing up second-third round picks that have busted and you come up with four busts.  From the second-third rounds.  I'm going to direct your attention to the Seahawks, who you always say are ten times better at drafting (or who others say). 

Germain Ifedi was a first round pick.  Paul Richardson was their first pick that year.  Christine Michael was their first pick the year before.  Shaquil Griffin, Delano Hill, Nick Vannett, Prosise, Jordan Hill...

By all means complain about Thompson not being more aggressive in the draft (trading up and not stockpiling later picks).  Complain about him not signing big free agents (there's an argument there at least).  Complain about Datone Jones.  Complain about Damarious Randall (even though he's turning it around).  Complain about the backup QB situation.  Complain about literally anything and I'll acknowlege and probably maybe even agree with your complaints, but please...

Your not understanding the argument HZ. My points are as follows:

In GB, under Ted Thompson, his draftees get every possible chance to succeed like nowhere else in the NFL.

He utilizes free agency less often than any other GM in the NFL and it is not even close (though 2017 did see an uptick in activity).

He has not made a single trade of or for a NFL player of consequence in over a decade.

Of course other teams have draft busts. I'd say the Seahawks whom you reference have had even more busts of late than TT has and guess what so has NE.

But unlike in GB, Seattle & NE quickly move on from mediocre to bad draft picks. 

They also utilize all avenues of talent acquisition.

NE has led the NFL in trades for the past many years and signs multiple free agents every season.

And you know what even those stodgy old Steelers have made 3 trades involving players just this season and remember Joe Haden?

In Green Bay, the draft picks get forever to prove their worth and they are given every opportunity even if it looks like they can't play.

Sadly, Brett Hundley looks to be just the latest example of this philosophy as McCarthy takes offense at the very thought of going outside the organization at QB.

That is why I point to the failures of TT's picks, because if his draft picks don't pan out there is no plan B other than to look to next year's draft. Again. Well ARod is 35 next season, the time to look to the future ended a few seasons back.

Finally, I never complain about late picks (rounds 5-7), but when picks in rounds 1-4 are being counted on to be key contributors as they most certainly are in Green Bay (like Biegel is right now or Jake Ryan was in 2015 & 2016 and Martinez is now), the picks can and should be criticized if they don't come through.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Your not understanding the argument HZ. My points are as follows:

In GB, under Ted Thompson, his draftees get every possible chance to succeed like nowhere else in the NFL.

He utilizes free agency less often than any other GM in the NFL and it is not even close (though 2017 did see an uptick in activity).

He has not made a single trade of or for a NFL player of consequence in over a decade.

Of course other teams have draft busts. I'd say the Seahawks whom you reference have had even more busts of late than TT has and guess what so has NE.

But unlike in GB, Seattle & NE quickly move on from mediocre to bad draft picks. 

They also utilize all avenues of talent acquisition.

NE has led the NFL in trades for the past many years and signs multiple free agents every season.

And you know what even those stodgy old Steelers have made 3 trades involving players just this season and remember Joe Haden?

In Green Bay, the draft picks get forever to prove their worth and they are given every opportunity even if it looks like they can't play.

Sadly, Brett Hundley looks to be just the latest example of this philosophy as McCarthy takes offense at the very thought of going outside the organization at QB.

That is why I point to the failures of TT's picks, because if his draft picks don't pan out there is no plan B other than to look to next year's draft. Again. Well ARod is 35 next season, the time to look to the future ended a few seasons back.

Finally, I never complain about late picks (rounds 5-7), but when picks in rounds 1-4 are being counted on to be key contributors as they most certainly are in Green Bay (like Biegel is right now or Jake Ryan was in 2015 & 2016 and Martinez is now), the picks can and should be criticized if they don't come through.

 

How do you know Ted is drafting busts?  We've seen some of our players move on to other teams and perform just fine so I'm beginning to suspect the fly in the ointment is the coaching staff and not necessarily the GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TransientTexan said:

ROFL, you of all people... that's quite a bit of projection on your part. you are the epitome of emotional knee-jerks 

The difference between the two of us is that I can make fun of myself when it comes to that and that I can acknowledge I'm a rough person to deal with.  All you do is complain and have emotional knee-jerk reactions and get angry.  If I was the way I am without a hint of irony, tongue-in-cheek arrogance or self-deprecation, I'd be intolerable.  As it is, I'm only 80% intolerable.  Maybe 85%.  You're always angry without any of those things.  So maybe lighten up once in a while. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

All you do is complain and have emotional knee-jerk reactions and get angry. 

Lol most ppl on this forum complain a heckuva lot more than I do. Providing rational deconstructions of poor logic is not complaining. My posts are like the opposite of knee-jerk. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TransientTexan said:

Lol most ppl on this forum complain a heckuva lot more than I do. Providing rational deconstructions of poor logic is not complaining. My posts are like the opposite of knee-jerk. 

You're right, they're not knee-jerk, they're just 100% bad attitude.  Lighten up.  Back to the point, we have been getting healthier and worse at the same time.  You can't blame injuries for our team being the worst team in football without Rodgers because we had all of our starters back last night and we've looked worse than ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're right, they're not knee-jerk, they're just 100% bad attitude.  Lighten up.  Back to the point, we have been getting healthier and worse at the same time.  You can't blame injuries for our team being the worst team in football without Rodgers because we had all of our starters back last night and we've looked worse than ever. 

I think “bad attitude” is when certain members flood these boards with exaggerated negativity about the team on a regular basis because they want to throw a tantrum. Calling out such people isn’t “bad attitude”.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TheOnlyThing said:

Your not understanding the argument HZ.

You're referencing the Seahawks and Patriots.  The Seahawks are about to have no money, no defense and no draft picks.  They've got this year and next year before they're rebuilding.  If you don't believe me... Sherman, Thomas, Brown, Avril, Wright, Clark... All free agents.  Bennett will be 33 then.  They're also going to have Graham, Joekel, Richardson and more to re-sign this year.  Free agency and trades are a dangerous game. 

Let's not pretend like the Patriots are more talented than we are.  The Patriots have no talent on defense, but the best head coach and probably best defensive coordinator in the league.

Our defense would be a top 10 scoring defense with Belichick and Patricia as coaches right now. 

I'm understanding your argument, but you're not understanding the heart of what I'm getting at.  Go through every other team and find a better ratio of hits/misses in the second-fourth round of the draft than we've had or stop complaining about 2nd-4th round picks.  We've been better than literally every other team in the second-fourth rounds since Thompson got here, so complaining about his 5 really bad picks in those rounds is just petulant whining.  Take out this year's draft:

Martinez, Lowry, Montgomery, Ryan, Adams, Rodgers, Lacy, Bakhtiari, Tretter, Franklin, Hayward, Daniels, Cobb, House, Neal, Burnett, Lang, Nelson, FInley, Sitton, Jones, Barbre, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz, Collins, Murphy.  You're not going to find that kind of track record in those rounds anywhere else, so stop complaining about those picks "busting." 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TransientTexan said:

I think “bad attitude” is when certain members flood these boards with exaggerated negativity about the team on a regular basis because they want to throw a tantrum. Calling out such people isn’t “bad attitude”.

My negativity is not negative and depending on how long you've been here, you'd know that I've been one of the most optimistic people here literally every year but this year, and the only time I've been here this year is after Aaron went down for what looks like the season.  You're damn right I'm going to be negative in such a negative year.  Everybody dislikes the dozen or so people here who ONLY post negative things.  Were you around when "WaterCaptain" was here and found a way to complain about AJ Hawk in an Aaron Rodgers appreciation thread?  Nobody likes that, but we kept our bad attitudes directed those people, not everybody who posts a negative viewpoint.  If you want to go after the people who say they want us to get blown out, go for it and I won't stop you.  But don't be so angry at people who bring up legitimate points. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Pugger said:

How do you know Ted is drafting busts?  We've seen some of our players move on to other teams and perform just fine so I'm beginning to suspect the fly in the ointment is the coaching staff and not necessarily the GM.

Whoa whoa - yes a number of players have moved on to other teams but they were very good in Green Bay and TT just let them go. Casey Heyward was very good in GB, so was Michah Hyde. TJ Lang and Josh Sitton were very good in Green Bay and JC Tretter most of us figured was a future starter.  Instead, TT spent big money on the constantly injured Bryan  Bulaga and the just ok Randall Cobb and Clay Mathews. You might even want to admit the coaching staff has done remarkably well considering the talent TT allows to walk away each and every year. Green Bay continues to have a personnel problem not a coaching problem. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

My negativity is not negative and depending on how long you've been here, you'd know that I've been one of the most optimistic people here literally every year but this year, and the only time I've been here this year is after Aaron went down for what looks like the season. 

Wasn't necessarily referring to you. 

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

we kept our bad attitudes directed those people, not everybody who posts a negative viewpoint

I don't aim anything at "everybody who posts a negative viewpoint". There are plenty of people on this board that have posted critiques without any objections from me. All it takes is posting in a reasoned and respectful manner and demonstrating honest efforts to control for different variables that might artificially influence the data. If people would rather make Mr.Spacely-esque posts and seek out anecdotes that support their own hypothesis instead of making a proper study to rule out flaws in their own hypothesis, I think it is fair to contest them and request for them to demonstrate how they have controlled for other variables in their analysis, including standard deviation which needs sample size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am only half kidding when I say this: everyone's talking about bringing in Kap, how about kicking the wheels on Johnny Football? I don't think I have heard his name mentioned once. Sounds like the guy is doing better, think I heard he got engaged even. Clearly has talent. Only NFL team that ever gave him a chance was the dumpster fire Browns. We have seen how many quarterbacks they've gone through. At least Manziel made them competitive. Green Bay's locker room is the only other locker room outside of New England that could keep him under check. Who knows, he's only 25 years old, could turn into a multi-year back up. Could be looking at Favre 2.0. MM started with Favre, end with Johnny. At this juncture what do we have to lose? We are already a laughing stock. He had a lot more "quarterback" talent/potential than Hundley coming out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TransientTexan said:

All it takes is posting in a reasoned and respectful manner and demonstrating honest efforts to control for different variables that might artificially influence the data.

You mean kinda like somebody saying, "Name one starter other than Rodgers who missed last night?"  Because that's what I did and you responded crankily with a proverbial stick up your butt. 

Quote

 

If people would rather make Mr.Spacely-esque posts and seek out anecdotes that support their own hypothesis instead of making a proper study to rule out flaws in their own hypothesis, I think it is fair to contest them and request for them to demonstrate how they have controlled for other variables in their analysis, including standard deviation which needs sample size.

 

Since this is clearly directed at me having a problem with DVOA statistics, I don't care.  Your stance is that the right statistics tell the story.  My stance is that points allowed at the end of the season tell the story.  When the season is on the line in a playoff hunt for the Super Bowl, you can take your standard deviation and be comfortable with your coach and defensive coordinator having adhered to those principles and being held accountable by those standards, but I want my head coach and coach to be held accountable for points allowed because at the end, the only statistic that matters is points.  Games aren't won or lost by looking at which team passed for the most yards or most yards per attempt, games are recorded by points against points, and in 4 seasons, "good" or "average" DVOA defenses have allowed 37, 45, 44 and 45 points.  They've also failed to come up with a single stop in overtime in Aaron's entire career except for once.  Against the Bengals a week after they fired their offensive coordinator. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, gizmo2012 said:

Whoa whoa - yes a number of players have moved on to other teams but they were very good in Green Bay and TT just let them go. Casey Heyward was very good in GB, so was Michah Hyde. TJ Lang and Josh Sitton were very good in Green Bay and JC Tretter most of us figured was a future starter.  Instead, TT spent big money on the constantly injured Bryan  Bulaga and the just ok Randall Cobb and Clay Mathews. You might even want to admit the coaching staff has done remarkably well considering the talent TT allows to walk away each and every year. Green Bay continues to have a personnel problem not a coaching problem. 

If I recall most had no issues letting Hyde go at that price.   We replaced Sitton with Taylor and I still think Detroit overpaid Lang.  I'm glad for Tretter, it seems like he's played in every game for Cleveland.  But when he was with us he was hurt most of the time.  I'm sorry we let Peppers leave.  We could use his pass rushing skills.  But to say we don't have a coaching problem - especially on the defensive side of the ball - is very surprising to me and I'm sure to a lot of other people around here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You mean kinda like somebody saying, "Name one starter other than Rodgers who missed last night?" 

not really. the sentiment in my statement is similar to yours. 

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Since this is clearly directed at me having a problem with DVOA statistics

No, actually my variable/deviation statement has nothing to do with the DVOA discussion and I was not even thinking of you when I mentioned it. But if the shoe fits...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...