redsoxsuck05 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, playmaker8267 said: I said he was selfish, which I stand by. Again, I never said he deserved to die. When you, as an amateur pilot, fly your toy plane that recklessly and foolishly, you are in that moment prioritizing that thrill over everything else. If he were an active player and we found out he was flying his toy plane like that, we would have ripped him. Don't treat him differently because he bet his life and lost. What Jose did was infinitely worse, but no, I would not mock and and welcome his death. That's what this radio schmuck did and that's why this thread blew up. Tell me why it's okay to just agree to disagree with this guy and respect his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker8267 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said: I certainly wouldn't be ripping a man who died in an accident. You'd be ripping him if he came away unscathed. There's no reason to treat him differently for performing the same irresponsible, reckless actions and getting a different result, even death. I feel sick for the people who loved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker8267 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, redsoxsuck05 said: What Jose did was infinitely worse, but no, I would not mock and and welcome his death. That's what this radio schmuck did and that's why this thread blew up. Tell me why it's okay to just agree to disagree with this guy and respect his opinion. I agree with you that what Fernandez did was worse. Felger wasn't welcoming his death. He said it angered him that Halladay would risk putting his family in that position they're in now. He mocked his death because that's how colossally stupid it was for Halladay to fly that plane the way he did. I personally wouldn't have used the tone Felger did, but when you do what Halladay did, you open yourself up to it. The fact you don't believe in agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions says a lot. It must be exhausting going through life like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 For the last time, if he had survived than a bunch of us would call him stupid and reckless. We would not be creepy sociopaths and say that he should have died! And yes, death does make things more tragic and depressing. Of course whether he dies or not in a reckless activity makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker8267 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Don't treat him differently because he died. It's the same action, different result. It's hypocritical to eviscerate him had he lived but act like he never did anything wrong because he died. Opine based on the action, not the result. It's like suspending a linebacker for a clean hit because the receiver was injured on the play. Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, playmaker8267 said: I agree with you that what Fernandez did was worse. Felger wasn't welcoming his death. He said it angered him that Halladay would risk putting his family in that position they're in now. He mocked his death because that's how colossally stupid it was for Halladay to fly that plane the way he did. I personally wouldn't have used the tone Felger did, but when you do what Halladay did, you open yourself up to it. The fact you don't believe in agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions says a lot. It must be exhausting going through life like that. I sure as hell will not dignify opinions I find offensive and sociopathic for the sake of "agreeing to disagree." If someone says "I believe that Jews like you are scumbag leeches and should be exterminated" then I will not pretend to respect their differences in opinion and defend their honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker8267 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It's just picking your battles. I don't often engage in this kind of thing on FF, but I chose to tonight. If I responded in outrage to every opinion I disagreed with, I'd never have time for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 RIP to a legend. Very tragic. I wish he would of been more careful though. He was getting to confident and to comfortable in that plane. Looked like he was even taking selfies and videos at some points. His wife also apparently fought him very hard against it. Look, I understand a man should be able to do what he loves. But when you have two tiny kids, anything as risky as that goes straight out the window. Especially the showboating/over confidence stuff... Can't change what has happened though. RIP to a great guy and I hope his family can recover. I can only imagine the pain. Can't think about it more than a few seconds. My heart goes out to his wife and boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, playmaker8267 said: I agree with you that what Fernandez did was worse. Felger wasn't welcoming his death. He said it angered him that Halladay would risk putting his family in that position they're in now. He mocked his death because that's how colossally stupid it was for Halladay to fly that plane the way he did. I personally wouldn't have used the tone Felger did, but when you do what Halladay did, you open yourself up to it. The fact you don't believe in agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions says a lot. It must be exhausting going through life like that. Yeah, he kinda was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, playmaker8267 said: Don't treat him differently because he died. It's the same action, different result. It's hypocritical to eviscerate him had he lived but act like he never did anything wrong because he died. Opine based on the action, not the result. It's like suspending a linebacker for a clean hit because the receiver was injured on the play. Makes no sense. Being stupid and reckless does not preclude sympathy for DEATH. How is this not clear to you by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyers0909 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Who the **** are these two clowns to talk about his death like this? Regardless of what you think about how he passed, what does this accomplish? He was an incredible baseball player and by every account an even better person, and this idiot feels the need to go on the air and absolutely bash Roy Halladay without having ever known the guy. This guy claims to feel bad for his family but now he's got this audio out there, for Roy's children to readily hear, about what an idiot and POS their dad was. **** this guy, it's disgusting this is actually a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I was going to jump in and condemn the people going after Halladay until I saw the video. He was being a jackarse. He was probably a fine person, and I was shocked by his death (one of the best pitchers on my childhood), but he deserves condemnation for his actions. Anyone who has ever flown a plane (or knows anything about aviation in general) knows that what he was doing wasn't just dangerous for him, it was dangerous for anyone around him. Halladay put more than just his life at risk there. And if he really was doing this for multiple days, it's hard to feel sympathy for him (but I do feel sympathy for his family). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: I was going to jump in and condemn the people going after Halladay until I saw the video. He was being a jackarse. He was probably a fine person, and I was shocked by his death (one of the best pitchers on my childhood), but he deserves condemnation for his actions. Anyone who has ever flown a plane (or knows anything about aviation in general) knows that what he was doing wasn't just dangerous for him, it was dangerous for anyone around him. Halladay put more than just his life at risk there. And if he really was doing this for multiple days, it's hard to feel sympathy for him (but I do feel sympathy for his family). Maybe you are watching a different video. From the video I'm watching he is flying away from people / property and out over the open water in an aircraft that is specifically designed to be flown at low altitudes and to skim the surface of a body of water. Let's not pretend he is doing this in a Cessna 172. Google Icon A5. Half the pictures are either of the plane skimming water or floating. They are marketing it as a 'sports car' or 'jet ski' in the sky. He didn't come up with this idea on his own. The plane is clearly being designed and marketed in a way that is irresponsible, in hindsight, but I can 100% see how someone could think using it the way he did was appropriate. You can argue a husband and father shouldn't be participating in such a risky hobby to begin with but let's wait for the NTSB investigation before we say he was being a jackass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, mission27 said: Maybe you are watching a different video. From the video I'm watching he is flying away from people / property and out over the open water in an aircraft that is specifically designed to be flown at low altitudes and to skim the surface of a body of water. Let's not pretend he is doing this in a Cessna 172. Google Icon A5. Half the pictures are either of the plane skimming water or floating. They are marketing it as a 'sports car' or 'jet ski' in the sky. He didn't come up with this idea on his own. The plane is clearly being designed and marketed in a way that is irresponsible, in hindsight, but I can 100% see how someone could think using it the way he did was appropriate. You can argue a husband and father shouldn't be participating in such a risky hobby to begin with but let's wait for the NTSB investigation before we say he was being a jackass. Nope, it's pretty clear we watched the same video. How much do you know about aviation or flying planes? Because one of the first things you're taught is to be consistent and deliberate with your altitude. You're a hazard to every other small plane in the sky when you fly like that. Collision avoidance in small planes is based on sight and knowledge of where other planes are (for the most part). When a pilot is acting like that, he's putting himself and every other small plane in the sky at risk of a collision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, jrry32 said: Nope, it's pretty clear we watched the same video. How much do you know about aviation or flying planes? Because one of the first things you're taught is to be consistent and deliberate with your altitude. You're a hazard to every other small plane in the sky when you fly like that. Collision avoidance in small planes is based on sight and knowledge of where other planes are (for the most part). When a pilot is acting like that, he's putting himself and every other small plane in the sky at risk of a collision. I fly a couple of times of a month. No, I would never do anything like what Roy did here, mainly because I fly a ****ty little Cessna over densely populated areas. It looks like, even at his highest, he was flying at only a few hundred feet. Unless he is in the vicinity of an airport I would argue there is a very low likelihood of any other aircraft in the area at the altitudes he was flying at. Was he pushing the bounds of what is acceptable? Yes. But in context I don't think what he was doing was grossly irresponsible at least from the perspective of putting others at risk. The A5 is specifically designed to takeoff, land, skim, and fly at low altitude over open water and for high agility maneuvers. In the grand scheme of things he picked a fairly appropriate place to do what the aircraft he was given was designed to do. We will see what comes of the NTSB investigation but, bad judgement or not on Roy's part, I think a lot of the blame needs to be placed on Icon. They clearly gave Roy a sweetheart deal to endorse this thing and handed an inexperienced pilot a death trap with very little training. And that really just goes to their entire marketing strategy. They are designing and marketing this to be something that inexperienced pilots can own at low cost and fly as if they are trained stunt pilots. That's never going to end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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