Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Yeah, but I don't just look at points per game against whomever in a 4 game stretch. Cool story. Though, for example, the '07 Giant's defense doesn't give a rip about you overlooking their 4 game postseason accomplishments and the Lombardi trophy they earned because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Yes. Not even the GOAT Tom Brady has won a Super Bowl without a top 10 scoring defense. Neither has Rodgers, neither has Favre. It's no wonder the #1 scoring defense is undefeated against the #1 scoring offense in all six Super Bowl matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 50 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Yes. Not even the GOAT Tom Brady has won a Super Bowl without a top 10 scoring defense. Neither has Rodgers, neither has Favre. It's no wonder the #1 scoring defense is undefeated against the #1 scoring offense in all six Super Bowl matchups. 6-1 to be exact. SB XXIV is the lone exception here as the #1 offense of the 49ers beat the #1 defense of the Broncos 55-10. But also of importance is that the 49ers were the #3 defense in points against as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 43 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: Cool story. Though, for example, the '07 Giant's defense doesn't give a rip about you overlooking their 4 game postseason accomplishments and the Lombardi trophy they earned because of it. Thanks, what to hear it again? And what do the 2007 Giants have to do with the 2006 Colts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: And what do the 2007 Giants have to do with the 2006 Colts? The '07 Giants are a mirror example of a defense that played very well in their 4 game postseason stretch, allowing only 16 pts/g (just like the '06 Colts), to win a championship in spite of lackluster regular season play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: It was another example of a defense that played well in a 4 game postseason stretch, allowing only 16 pts/g, to win a championship despite lackluster regular season play. Except the opponents were completely different. The 2006 Colts defense in the regular season (awful) and postseason (average) played completely different opponents with a different team. Their run was a lot easier come playoff time compared with who the Giants faced a year later in their quest. You can say the Colts stepped against their Chiefs, Ravens, and the Bears (not the Patriots), but I don't think who they played was that big of a deal for the defense. Again, points per game regardless of scenario is just a very narrow way to view a team's success. And this doesn't mean they didn't earn the Lombardi trophy. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Except the opponents were completely different. The 2006 Colts defense in the regular season (awful) and postseason (average) played completely different opponents with a different team. Their run was a lot easier come playoff time compared with who the Giants faced a year later in their quest. Again, points per game regardless of scenario is just a very narrow way to view a team's success. Wait, they didn't play the exact same teams from the following year? I mean, no ****, buddy. A team doesn't control who they play, they can only control how they play. Points allowed, although simplistic, is still an accurate assessment of a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: And this doesn't mean they didn't earn the Lombardi trophy. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. OK, then try and stay on topic as that is the premise of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: Wait, they didn't play the exact same teams from the following year? I mean, no ****, buddy. A team doesn't control who they play, they can only control how they play. Points allowed, although simplistic, is still an accurate assessment of a defense. Lol u mad? Now use your detective skills to deduce that since not all variables are the same, the substance of their success shouldn't be held to one same variable a.k.a. points per game. Yeah teams can't control who they play. Okay and? They still have the power to play down their competition, play up to their competition, or just completely destroy their competition. You might as well say a team that averages 12 wins a season is just as good as any other team in NFL history that has had a 12 win season regardless of competition. Oh and I'm not your buddy, pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: OK, then try and stay on topic as that is the premise of this thread. Dafuq? You're the one that brought up the strawman notion that my statement somehow diminished the accomplishment of a team winning the Lombardi. Which isn't the case at all. Yeah, done with you haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Lol u mad? Now use your detective skills to deduce that since not all variables are the same, the substance of their success shouldn't be held to one same variable a.k.a. points per game. Yeah teams can't control who they play. Okay and? They still have the power to play down their competition, play up to their competition, or just completely destroy their competition. You might as well say a team that averages 12 wins a season is just as good as any other team in NFL history that has had a 12 win season regardless of competition. I would agree. A win's a win in the NFL. It's "any given Sunday" for a reason. Every squad has the talent and capabilities to win. Every year, every team, every game, and those game-time situations are truly incomparable and greatly dependent on that specific matchup. So yes, a 12 win team in any given year is sufficiently proportional to any other 12 win team through out the NFL's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlong Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 7 hours ago, PapaShogun said: You should look into DVOA. The Patriots may have ranked 6th in points allowed in 2001, but their defensive DVOA was 19th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, everlong said: So is cheating Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Carmen Cygni said: You might think you're being clever here, but that sentiment and those situations happen all the time. Case and point: There have been a slew of wild card teams who have barely made the playoffs but gelled and got hot at just the right time to roll through the playoffs and win the SB. I totally agree, which is why you need playoff stats to see if good\gelled defenses played good\bad to win a chip. If a horrible regular session defense win a championship, but did it by playing lights out defense in 4 playoff games, is it fair to continue calling them horrible? I don't think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 There's three ways to win a Super Bowl. 1. A great QB with a competent defense. Depending on how consistent the QB is from year to a year it is the most consistent model and can last the career of the QB. 2. All time great defense with a poor/average QB but a couple of X factors on offense than can make something happen once or twice a game. Usually only sustainable for two years. 3. Stacked all around team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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