Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, CriminalMind said: Let's look at some playoff stats, not the regular season stats when evaluating stars regarding championships You might think you're being clever here, but that sentiment and those situations happen all the time. Case and point: There have been a slew of wild card teams who have barely made the playoffs but gelled and got hot at just the right time to roll through the playoffs and win the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: You're right I forgot about the pick 6. But my point was that was a deficit that could not be overcome without an elite QB. Yes, the defense played well in the second half, but they couldn't make those points up without the QB. Correction: without the offense. #QBwinz We all saw what happened to Brady in the playoffs the year before when NE's o-line struggled; they couldn't get the job done nor could Brady do it all by himself. It's why they brought back the great Dante Scarnecchia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Carmen Cygni said: Correction: without the offense. #QBwinz We all saw what happened to Brady in the playoffs the year before when NE's o-line struggled; they couldn't get the job done nor could Brady do it all by himself. It's why they brought back the great Dante Scarnecchia. Yea, the offense, but not just any QB could engineer that comeback, it takes a special one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 24 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: Every game, every play even, is situational and it's reasons vary greatly. So trying to make sense of total yards given up, yards given upper pass or run, etc. by mere statistics is essentially irrelevant without a proper chart breakdown of the each and every game. A unit also doesn't have to been even remotely "memorable" to be properly effective in concerns to the most important aspect of the game which is the results of the scoreboard. But you can measure efficiency for a unit via every single play they are put in on the field and chart the results of those situations in comparison to a league average baseline. Which is what DVOA does. I'm just saying, I don't see how DVOA is silly, but just using points per game given up for a defense as a measure for the quality of a unit isn't. Yeah you don't have to be memorable to get results. I'm just saying that defense was just average in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 For reference this also isn't just some saying thrown around for simpleton barstool talk, it was said by one of the best coaches to ever grace the sport of football - Bear Bryant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 41 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: It changes nothing. I explained and clarified that thought process within my first few posts. It's also, in a way, built in to the adage itself. An offense can carry a team through out the regular season, but when push comes to shove and you're facing the best teams of the year in the playoffs, it's the defense that must rise to the occasion to acquire the Lombardi. Were Flacco and Eli elite QBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Yin-Yang said: Were Flacco and Eli elite QBs? No, though they did play exceptional well at times during their respective teams SB runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 The Broncos are my 2nd rooting interest team and I am here as living proof to tell you..... ....absolutely defense wins championships. The 2013 Seahawks insane defense crushed the most statistically dominant offense of all time in the SB to win a title and 2 years later the 2015 Broncos defense laid absolute waste to offenses with Rodgers, Cam, Brady, Rivers and Roethlisberger at the helm to win a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: But you can measure efficiency for a unit via every single play they are put in on the field and chart the results of those situations in comparison to a league average baseline. Which is what DVOA does. I'm just saying, I don't see how DVOA is silly, but just using points per game given up for a defense as a measure for the quality of a unit isn't. Yeah you don't have to be memorable to get results. I'm just saying that defense was just average in my opinion. And yet, you'll still never understand the situation or reasoning behind the plays or game. Nor have a grasp on the actual game itself. If you're going to dive into DVOA, you also need an in-depth analysis and tape breakdown of the game itself. It's useless alone. Just more undefined data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Carmen Cygni said: And yet, you'll still never understand the situation or reasoning behind the plays or game. Nor have a grasp on the actual game itself. If you're going to dive into DVOA, you also need an in-depth analysis and tape breakdown of the game itself. It's useless alone. Just more undefined data. Not saying it's perfect, or that it can predict someone's thinking on the sidelines. I am saying it's a more productive way to chronicle results from a team or a unit's efficiency than just looking at point total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2006 Colts defensive stand in the playoffs was...eh... 2012 Ravens defense sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: No, though they did play exceptional well at times during their respective teams SB runs. Then it would be safe to say that unexceptional defenses raised their level of play during those SB runs as well? I think we’re on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, PapaShogun said: 2006 Colts defensive stand in the playoffs was...eh... Noted in post #12. They allowed a meager 16 pts/g in their playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Then it would be safe to say that unexceptional defenses raised their level of play during those SB runs as well? I think we’re on the same page. Possibly. I have never stated that all SB's are won by elite defenses. I've stuck to the adage and simply implied that top-notch defensive play is needed to win championships and they can also do so without leading offensive play. I've rarely witnessed the situation vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: Noted in post #12. They allowed a meager 16 pts/g in their playoff run. Yeah, but I don't just look at points per game against whomever in a 4 game stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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