Where does Baker Mayfield get traded to and how much does he go for? !Poll!

[CP3MVP]

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

He hasnt been traded already because the rest of the league is trying to smoke out the Browns to lower his trade value. Its been reported multiple teams are interested, they just are trying to force the Browns to eat some of his salary.

 Im not even talking about a 1st. The Lions could probably get it done for a conditional 3rd that turns into a 2nd if he meets X criteria.

How do you explain the other QBs getting traded?

 

if teams thought baker was that good he would’ve been traded already regardless of his salary which is very cheap for 2022 for a starting QB

Edited April 4, 2022 by CP3MVP

[Forge]

4 hours ago, brownie man said:

I’d love a Lions fan’s opinion on this

 

Yo I just had a thought

what if in a trade to Detroit the browns picked up all of Bakers contract and traded him for pick 32?

I really think that could potentially make sense. Baker gets back with Dorsey, and they can have him come in and compete with Goff but not have to pay him. 
 

We take a L on the contract but we also get a first rounder back. If they don’t go QB at two I’d definitely take Baker over the QBs that’ll be left. And they don’t have to pay him. Is this an unreasonable thought?

Dorsey isn't in charge in Detroit, Brad Holmes is. 

Brad Holmes comes from the Rams where he was in charge of college scouting when the Rams chose.... Jared Goff 

[Forge]

5 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its about upside. Thats one thing Baker still has that Goff doesnt. Goff has already shown who he is and what he can/cant do. There is still a level of intrigue to Baker where its easy to make a argument for him not being at his ceiling.

That might be something Dorsey (who drafted him) and a Detroit fanbase could make a play on. At least it will give their fanbase a nice jolt of optimism.

That's a hard sell. Why does he have more upside? What is it that people think that he may be able to do but hasn't shown yet as opposed to Goff? How much upside are we talking? Do people still think that Baker has top 7 QB upside?  Or are we talking 10-12 type upside? I wouldn't be shocked if Baker stabilized in terms being that 10-13 range, but that just doesn't strike me as great either. 

Baker has never had a season as good as Goff has had. Context aside, nothing Baker has done is as good as Goff's 17/18, objectively. So doesn't that make the known ceiling of Goff better than Mayfield's? 

Baker is also like 6 months younger than Goff. He's had 4 years. After year 4 with Goff, a lot of the bloom had come off the rose and there were already arguments about him and his long term future...and again, there's an argument to be made that he had shown more at that point than Baker has. Baker isn't being unduly criticized or anything after year 4...this isn't new territory and Goff went through similar. 

Why does Baker give them a jolt of optimism over Goff ? I don't get that at all. What's exciting about Baker?  They are basically comparable level quarterbacks and as I mentioned, Holmes helped draft Goff, so I imagine that holds more sway than Dorsey. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

Why does Baker give them a jolt of optimism over Goff ? I don't get that at all. What's exciting about Baker?  They are basically comparable level quarterbacks and as I mentioned, Holmes helped draft Goff, so I imagine that holds more sway than Dorsey. 

I don't think most think much at all about Baker. I think some who watch Baker see an elite arm and average athleticism which Goff doesn't have. That would be the upside. His system has always pretty much been a poor one for him too. Hue was bad. Kitchens was bad. 2021 Stefanski was bad (see Kitchens).

 

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

How do you explain the other QBs getting traded?

 

if teams thought baker was that good he would’ve been traded already regardless of his salary which is very cheap for 2022 for a starting QB

I think the whole 'we want a adult' comment nuked his trade value. If both sides kept their mouths shut ala Matt Ryan it would have probably happened for him,.

[Thomas5737]

34 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I think the whole 'we want a adult' comment nuked his trade value. If both sides kept their mouths shut ala Matt Ryan it would have probably happened for him,.

Well the Browns deny ever making that comment and Baker hasn't said anything that I know of.

I think some teams just don't want to do business with the Browns and there was already a small market for a still injured QB coming off of a rough season who is making 18 million on an expiring contract.

[candyman93]

Fowler says it’s a waiting game

 

 

[Jameson_Neat]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:35 PM, brownie man said:

I’d love a Lions fan’s opinion on this

 

Yo I just had a thought

what if in a trade to Detroit the browns picked up all of Bakers contract and traded him for pick 32?

I really think that could potentially make sense. Baker gets back with Dorsey, and they can have him come in and compete with Goff but not have to pay him. 
 

We take a L on the contract but we also get a first rounder back. If they don’t go QB at two I’d definitely take Baker over the QBs that’ll be left. And they don’t have to pay him. Is this an unreasonable thought?

This trade would be awful for the Lions and bad enough I just might burn all Lions' gear in my possession.

 

 

[thrILL!]

22 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think some who watch Baker see an elite arm.

Who??  Stevie Wonder??

[Thomas5737]

2 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Who??  Stevie Wonder??

His arm is elite. Well, it wasn't after he got hurt last year but it was still better than 80% of the starters. Only Josh Allen has ever measured a stronger arm at the combine. I'm not saying he is the 2nd strongest, but as far as zip he is up there.

He is also very accurate. (He wasn't after getting hurt last year)

He has flaws, but it isn't arm related.

 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, thrILL! said:

Who??  Stevie Wonder??

I mean, he does have a cannon. I dont think his arm is elite because I don't think that he has other components of what I would consider "an elite arm", but he does have a rocket. 

[MWil23]

10 hours ago, Forge said:

I mean, he does have a cannon. I dont think his arm is elite because I don't think that he has other components of what I would consider "an elite arm", but he does have a rocket. 

I can always spot lazy "NFL Experts" from a mile away because of their takes on Baker's arm (I'm looking at you Chris Simms. You're more insufferable than your father and that's saying something). Chris Simms once said Baker had "below average to average velocity". That's absurd.

Don't get me wrong, the ammunition is there. Do the "compare" on Pro Football reference between Baker and Dalton and it's eerie.

						TOTALS Passing															Rushing					Receiving
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Andy Dalton	2011	2021	108	152	77-69-2	3122	5018	62.2	35279	226	87.0	86	135	320	2065	7.0	6.72	6.22	5.93	438	1411	22	3.2	25	3	11	1	3.7	18
2	Baker Mayfield	2018	2021	45	60	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	87.8	89	56	134	889	7.3	6.99	6.43	6.10	158	571	5	3.6	35	1	17	0	17.0	6

Per Game

				Passing							Rushing
Rk	Player	From	To	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	Yds	Att	Yds	TD
1	Andy Dalton	2011	2021	20.5	33.0	232.1	1.5	0.9	2.1	13.6	2.9	9.3	0.1
2	Baker Mayfield	2018	2021	19.8	32.1	235.4	1.5	0.9	2.2	14.8	2.6	9.5	0.1

 But let's be honest, it's not arm strength/the ability to fit the ball into tight windows. It's:

*Turnovers (most INT in the league since 2018)

*Completion %

*Pocket awareness/sloppy footwork

*4th Quarter metrics

*Straight drop back without playaction metrics

*Pressure metrics (he's terrible vs. pressure, which is something I said with him coming out after watching the entire Georgia game his Heisman year)

 

In all honesty, I think Baker Mayfield is better in the NFL 20 years ago than he is now, where turnovers for QB's were more of the norm, completion % wasn't as big of a deal, and almost everyone played in some level of high % playaction attack offense. In a vertical passing system heavily predicated off of a running game, he's probably a good QB somewhere in the "aging Favre gunslinger" tier.

In today's spread it out NFL system, he's in over his head.

[mtmmike]

On 4/4/2022 at 5:10 PM, Forge said:

That's a hard sell. Why does he have more upside? What is it that people think that he may be able to do but hasn't shown yet as opposed to Goff? How much upside are we talking? Do people still think that Baker has top 7 QB upside?  Or are we talking 10-12 type upside? I wouldn't be shocked if Baker stabilized in terms being that 10-13 range, but that just doesn't strike me as great either. 

Baker has never had a season as good as Goff has had. Context aside, nothing Baker has done is as good as Goff's 17/18, objectively. So doesn't that make the known ceiling of Goff better than Mayfield's? 

Baker is also like 6 months younger than Goff. He's had 4 years. After year 4 with Goff, a lot of the bloom had come off the rose and there were already arguments about him and his long term future...and again, there's an argument to be made that he had shown more at that point than Baker has. Baker isn't being unduly criticized or anything after year 4...this isn't new territory and Goff went through similar. 

Why does Baker give them a jolt of optimism over Goff ? I don't get that at all. What's exciting about Baker?  They are basically comparable level quarterbacks and as I mentioned, Holmes helped draft Goff, so I imagine that holds more sway than Dorsey. 

Mayfield  has 22 completions in a row.

Question did the Mayfield last year have anywhere close to that.

 

[mtmmike]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I can always spot lazy "NFL Experts" from a mile away because of their takes on Baker's arm (I'm looking at you Chris Simms. You're more insufferable than your father and that's saying something). Chris Simms once said Baker had "below average to average velocity". That's absurd.

Don't get me wrong, the ammunition is there. Do the "compare" on Pro Football reference between Baker and Dalton and it's eerie.

						TOTALS Passing															Rushing					Receiving
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Andy Dalton	2011	2021	108	152	77-69-2	3122	5018	62.2	35279	226	87.0	86	135	320	2065	7.0	6.72	6.22	5.93	438	1411	22	3.2	25	3	11	1	3.7	18
2	Baker Mayfield	2018	2021	45	60	29-30-0	1185	1924	61.6	14125	92	87.8	89	56	134	889	7.3	6.99	6.43	6.10	158	571	5	3.6	35	1	17	0	17.0	6

Per Game

				Passing							Rushing
Rk	Player	From	To	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	Yds	Att	Yds	TD
1	Andy Dalton	2011	2021	20.5	33.0	232.1	1.5	0.9	2.1	13.6	2.9	9.3	0.1
2	Baker Mayfield	2018	2021	19.8	32.1	235.4	1.5	0.9	2.2	14.8	2.6	9.5	0.1

 But let's be honest, it's not arm strength/the ability to fit the ball into tight windows. It's:

*Turnovers (most INT in the league since 2018)

*Completion %

*Pocket awareness/sloppy footwork

*4th Quarter metrics

*Straight drop back without playaction metrics

*Pressure metrics (he's terrible vs. pressure, which is something I said with him coming out after watching the entire Georgia game his Heisman year)

 

In all honesty, I think Baker Mayfield is better in the NFL 20 years ago than he is now, where turnovers for QB's were more of the norm, completion % wasn't as big of a deal, and almost everyone played in some level of high % playaction attack offense. In a vertical passing system heavily predicated off of a running game, he's probably a good QB somewhere in the "aging Favre gunslinger" tier.

In today's spread it out NFL system, he's in over his head.

Ok yes or no 

If the Browns only win 10 games next year are you leading the charge to get rid of deshaun sense he only averaged 8 wins a year .

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, mtmmike said:

Ok yes or no 

If the Browns only win 10 games next year are you leading the charge to get rid of deshaun sense he only averaged 8 wins a year .

Mike, I didn't want DeShaun for infinitely more important reasons than football. However, from a purely football only standpoint, Watson is infinitely better than Baker Mayfield.