DC Movie Universe

[MacReady]

17 minutes ago, devils1854 said:

Reeves said over and over that this is year two for Batman. We are assuming he's pretty young. Maybe they want a leaner Batman, or maybe his body isnt finished yet just like the home made suit and modified muscle car.

I honestly don’t see Pattinson EVER being as big as Batman should be.  

[August4th]

sucks it got pushed back to October, 2021 because of covid, but The Batman does look like ideal film to see in the fall.

[Deadpulse]

5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Not to mention the villains that are 10 times better than anything Marvel could dream of...

I have actually given this a great deal of thought and I have come to a conclusion. Feel free to disagree. 

One of the big reasons Marvel has been so successful in the MCU is that their villains are NOT as memorable or recognizable to the general audience. It has allowed them to take a lot of creative liberties in fitting all the pieces of a connected universe together by taking villains and stretching them into what they needed. Thanos is by far the biggest example. He is so different in the MCU than he is in the comics. His motivation is altruistic, or his warped idea of altruism. In the comics, he just has a hard on for the literal embodiment of death and wishes to appease her to win her heart. The one time fans were upset was the Mandarin, and they are fixing that, but it still serves my point. They changed that villain TOO much, but it goes to show their strategy up to and after that one time has been to flex the villains into a greater narrative. 

Meanwhile a screenshot of Joker gets released and people tear it apart, let alone a character shift. 

The same could hold true with the heroes. Yes, Thor and Iron Man were founding members of the Avengers in the comics, but originally the Avengers was not the ultimate team up. It was more like a defenders level team up. While Avengers did grow in the comics to include A listers, the by far biggest name on the team was Hulk. Even up to the movies Iron Man and Thor were not super popular. It once again allowed the MCU to KICK OFF their crazy plan with low stakes characters that they could mold into what they needed and who fans werent terribly attached to. The only character they had to nail out of the gate was Captain America. That is it. Everyone else was just gravy and easy to get the fans on board with. 

Now apply that to Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.... well those are the three most iconic supes in the world. Its the Luke Skywalker issue in TLJ. People, for their entire lives, have a vision of who these characters are. Deviate from that, even a little, and hell rains down. As poor as the DCU has been, and their decisions since it initially fumbled are not excused here, they have a MUCH more difficult time because they have to nail EVERY character as opposed to just the one. 

[43M]

3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I have actually given this a great deal of thought and I have come to a conclusion. Feel free to disagree. 

One of the big reasons Marvel has been so successful in the MCU is that their villains are NOT as memorable or recognizable to the general audience. It has allowed them to take a lot of creative liberties in fitting all the pieces of a connected universe together by taking villains and stretching them into what they needed. Thanos is by far the biggest example. He is so different in the MCU than he is in the comics. His motivation is altruistic, or his warped idea of altruism. In the comics, he just has a hard on for the literal embodiment of death and wishes to appease her to win her heart. The one time fans were upset was the Mandarin, and they are fixing that, but it still serves my point. They changed that villain TOO much, but it goes to show their strategy up to and after that one time has been to flex the villains into a greater narrative. 

Meanwhile a screenshot of Joker gets released and people tear it apart, let alone a character shift. 

The same could hold true with the heroes. Yes, Thor and Iron Man were founding members of the Avengers in the comics, but originally the Avengers was not the ultimate team up. It was more like a defenders level team up. While Avengers did grow in the comics to include A listers, the by far biggest name on the team was Hulk. Even up to the movies Iron Man and Thor were not super popular. It once again allowed the MCU to KICK OFF their crazy plan with low stakes characters that they could mold into what they needed and who fans werent terribly attached to. The only character they had to nail out of the gate was Captain America. That is it. Everyone else was just gravy and easy to get the fans on board with. 

Now apply that to Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.... well those are the three most iconic supes in the world. Its the Luke Skywalker issue in TLJ. People, for their entire lives, have a vision of who these characters are. Deviate from that, even a little, and hell rains down. As poor as the DCU has been, and their decisions since it initially fumbled are not excused here, they have a MUCH more difficult time because they have to nail EVERY character as opposed to just the one. 

Good post, and I agree with alot.

However, outside of certain characters ( like the Trinity)  I feel like you can take creative liberties with most characters.   As I said...its just a matter of 1)  how different and 2)  how well its done.     

Say what you want about the MCU being able to change some characters up, but they nailed most of them.    RDJ as Stark is as good of a casting choice as you can possibly make.    Remember, we couldve had Tom Cruise as Iron Man.

Cavill as Supes, Affleck as Batman and Gadot as WW all turned out to be awesome casting choices...all of them had what it took to play the characters, but the writing held them back.    Batman was made into a killing machine and Superman was too mopey and dark.   However, Affleck and Cavill were not the issues.   You can take liberties, but those were too different from what they are supposed to be.

And I feel like they could easily take similar liberties with Darkseid and Brainiac like they did with Thanos.    

[MacReady]

Y'all need to just shut up and agree with me so we can actually get a legitimate buildup to Justice League.

[Deadpulse]

20 minutes ago, 43M said:

Good post, and I agree with alot.

However, outside of certain characters ( like the Trinity)  I feel like you can take creative liberties with most characters.   As I said...its just a matter of 1)  how different and 2)  how well its done.     

Say what you want about the MCU being able to change some characters up, but they nailed most of them.    RDJ as Stark is as good of a casting choice as you can possibly make.    Remember, we couldve had Tom Cruise as Iron Man.

Cavill as Supes, Affleck as Batman and Gadot as WW all turned out to be awesome casting choices...all of them had what it took to play the characters, but the writing held them back.    Batman was made into a killing machine and Superman was too mopey and dark.   However, Affleck and Cavill were not the issues.   You can take liberties, but those were too different from what they are supposed to be.

And I feel like they could easily take similar liberties with Darkseid and Brainiac like they did with Thanos.    

I dont think you realize how much they changed Iron Man in the movies. His comic character prior to was an unlikable drunk. RDJ completely redefined the characterization. It was a bigger shift that Superman being mopey and dark IMO. 

 

I think the ideal kick off flick is Martian Manhunter. He is a character that is known, but not well known. He is a character that can easily be linked to both Superman and Batman. Supes because they are both aliens and Bats because he is a cop. Have this character be your glue guy for the entire thing. Introduce Green Lantern next. Have the Lantern Corp investigate reports of an illegal martian on earth only to run into a different threat that gets him killed. Maybe even have Sinestro lure him there to assassinate him by proxy by Amon Sur or something. Then Hal gets the ring, meets up with J'onn and defeats Sur. After that, introduce Hawkgirl. She is technically a Thanagarian and it could connect easily with the story already in place. 

Without going further I think its clear how I see the most successful start to a DC connect cinematic universe would be... start small. 

[August4th]

 

[MacReady]

9 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I dont think you realize how much they changed Iron Man in the movies. His comic character prior to was an unlikable drunk. RDJ completely redefined the characterization. It was a bigger shift that Superman being mopey and dark IMO. 

 

I think the ideal kick off flick is Martian Manhunter. He is a character that is known, but not well known. He is a character that can easily be linked to both Superman and Batman. Supes because they are both aliens and Bats because he is a cop. Have this character be your glue guy for the entire thing. Introduce Green Lantern next. Have the Lantern Corp investigate reports of an illegal martian on earth only to run into a different threat that gets him killed. Maybe even have Sinestro lure him there to assassinate him by proxy by Amon Sur or something. Then Hal gets the ring, meets up with J'onn and defeats Sur. After that, introduce Hawkgirl. She is technically a Thanagarian and it could connect easily with the story already in place. 

Without going further I think its clear how I see the most successful start to a DC connect cinematic universe would be... start small. 

I think you have to have Superman exist at the start of it.  Don’t even have to cast him until the third movie or so, but I don’t see how Superman can just suddenly appear.  Also have Batman early in his time as Batman at the start even if he’s not quite Batman yet.

[Deadpulse]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

I think you have to have Superman exist at the start of it.  Don’t even have to cast him until the third movie or so, but I don’t see how Superman can just suddenly appear.  Also have Batman early in his time as Batman at the start even if he’s not quite Batman yet.

I dont disagree with that, have them exist and clues that they exist without them being seen initially. However, I think ideally you have Supes operating small time as Superboy and have Martian Manhunter convince him he could be more. 

 

Meanwhile you bring Batman in at the last minute IMO. He'd be the most resistant to playing with others. 

[MacReady]

5 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Meanwhile you bring Batman in at the last minute IMO. He'd be the most resistant to playing with others. 

And that right there is why I desperately want to see a DCU team up movie.  Couple years ago I was sick and had nothing to watch so I watched a bunch of DC cartoon movies.  Watched one where Batman had a contingency plan for each member of the Justice League who was more powerful than him in case they went rogue.  Someone got the plans and used them.  Just that dynamic of Batman not being able to do certain things alone or needing to work with them is what I really want to see.  
 

I don’t actually like superheroes or comic books.  At all.  Never read one in my life.  But I ****ing love Batman, and I want Batman to exist over 20 years of superhero movies.  
 

I love the MCU not because it’s good.  I think every single movie is merely okay.  But the continuity of it and the production quality makes it something I love.  The character interaction, etc.

I’d be fine if it was Batman and his rogues gallery from Reeves and Pattinson if it lasted 20 years, but without support and more world building it won’t.

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Couple years ago I was sick and had nothing to watch so I watched a bunch of DC cartoon movies.  Watched one where Batman had a contingency plan for each member of the Justice League who was more powerful than him in case they went rogue.  Someone got the plans and used them.  Just that dynamic of Batman not being able to do certain things alone or needing to work with them is what I really want to see.  

I know exactly which one you are referring to. If you are ever sick again, god forbid, I recommend this one if you havent seen it. 

It's the perfect formation of the League IMO, live action or animated. 

[Canadian Saint]

I'm so hyped for this Batman movie, it's a ridiculous. I love the tone in the trailer and Reeves' panel also added to that. Having a Batman movie surrounding the corruption in Gotham, which will make Gotham the focus rather than a backdrop is an awesome idea. Also serves as an origin story for a bunch of characters, as Reeves said none of the villains have established aliases, so Selina Kyle isn't Catwoman etc., in this movie. This also gave me a little bit of Hush vibes tbh.

[seminoles1]

44 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

And that right there is why I desperately want to see a DCU team up movie.  Couple years ago I was sick and had nothing to watch so I watched a bunch of DC cartoon movies.  Watched one where Batman had a contingency plan for each member of the Justice League who was more powerful than him in case they went rogue.  Someone got the plans and used them.  Just that dynamic of Batman not being able to do certain things alone or needing to work with them is what I really want to see.

Justice League: Doom. I just watched it again on HBO Max a couple weeks ago; it's based on The Tower of Babel comic book. Great movie.

Slow buildup would be awesome, but it's very possible to do it without. "Justice League" the series jumped right in and it was fantastic. Obviously that was a different medium though, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

[seminoles1]

Surprised at the lack of talk around the other tidbits! I'll start with the big ones:

1. All the trailers were great (though I really don't know why Snyder chose that freaking version of "Hallelujah" again). The CGI for the Snyder Cut probably won't be as good as you'd expect because of the circumstances, but I can get over it.

2. The Flash definitely time travels in the Snyder Cut. I'm guessing the Justice League loses the initial fight to Steppenwolf and die or something. I can't imagine Snyder was able to pull off getting Lois Lane's murder by Darkseid into the movie.

3. Snyder did everything he could to distinguish his cut from the Whedon cut. As we've all discussed on here, we know the general plot will remain roughly the same. However, it's hard to deny A LOT of the journeys, characters, and developments along the way will be very different after seeing the teaser and everything Snyder had already confirmed.

4. I kind of wish they had stuck with Cheetah not fully transforming in this movie.

5. The Batman...holy hell. That was outstanding. I'll be there opening weekend.

6. Dr. Fate! Hawkman! Cyclone! We already knew Atom Smasher, but hell yeah! Black Adam coming in hard!

7. Patrick Wilson confirmed for Aquaman 2. Meh, he was fine I guess.

8. Gotham PD, the show set in the universe with The Batman, confirmed to take place during year 1 of Batman's career. Good choice IMO.

[43M]

50 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I know exactly which one you are referring to. If you are ever sick again, god forbid, I recommend this one if you havent seen it. 

It's the perfect formation of the League IMO, live action or animated. 

I didnt care for that movie.   Green Lantern and Wonder Woman were so annoying in that movie.

The one Outpost was referring to was Doom, which was a far superior movie IMO.

I also dont really agree at all with your assessement of how to release the movies, especially if youre trying to maximize profit.   Most people dont have a clue who Martian Manhunter is.   Not to say it couldnt work, but its not the best option.

Once again....the order the movies are released in, while there should be a strategy isnt the biggest issue.   Its how they are done.    

Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern was supposed to be the beginning of the new universe, but it was so bad they just tossed it in the trash, and decided to go in a darker, more grounded direction with Man of Steel.

Both couldve worked....but the first movie really sets the tone.    I liked Man of Steel, but it wasnt the best starting point.   Then they decided to rush everything, and thats a big reason the DCEU is trainwreck it is today.

Bottom line....Batman and Superman could be just fine as starting movies IF DONE RIGHT.   I wouldnt start off as some relatively obscure character like Manhunter.