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1 hour ago, Kiltman said:

Seems like it, anything DCEU potentially getting chopped.

They’ll never have a better time to do it with the Flashpoint coming.

Im not even 100% sure Flashpoint will be released.   Beyond everything with Ezra, the movie supposedly takes the DCEU in a direction that I guarantee it wont be going in with Gunn and Safran.

So unless they massively reshoot it, I won't be shocked if its completely scrapped.

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54 minutes ago, 43M said:

Im not even 100% sure Flashpoint will be released.   Beyond everything with Ezra, the movie supposedly takes the DCEU in a direction that I guarantee it wont be going in with Gunn and Safran.

So unless they massively reshoot it, I won't be shocked if its completely scrapped.

I’d assume it ends with him speeding back to “his universe”. So they could just do a quick reshoot from there and call it a day.

Could just get the new flash actor and do it with him too.

Or yeah they could just chuck it all out. But they can’t write them all off for taxes like Batgirl…can they?

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11 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

It’s happening!

 

Its not..... yet

Nothing that has been "reported" says anything about actually scrapping anything other than the current treatment of Wonder Woman 3.

Everything beyond that has been complete conjecture.

 

I have been with you, this needs to happen. But at the same time, are they really going to toss Dwayne Johnson to the side? Are they going to give up Gadot (the largest female superhero weve seen to date)? And are you going to turn your back on Cavil again when he supposedly gave up on another massive franchise (in part) to come back for Superman?

Affleck is basically already out, Miller is persona-non-grata, and Mamoa is usually down for whatever do I dont think you have to worry about him. But the other 3, and their drawing power is something you cant just ignore.

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17 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

drawing power is something you cant just ignore

In general, I agree with this premise.  However, I think with Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman, it's not a necessity.  Whatever you do with casting, i'd be doing a HARD reboot of the DCEU.  The only one I would maybe keep is Cavill, and that only if you have a loooooooong commitment, like 10 years and 5-8 appearances in the DCEU.  When the MCU started, RDJ was a mid level star recently coming back after major tarnishing, Hemsworth was essentially a nobody, Evans was a low to mid level star.  Ed Norton was their big pull, and he was one and out.  You don't need megastars to launch a mega franchise when the characters themselves are this kind of star power.  Boot Miller, give up on Gadot, recast Mamoa into another role (or even let him go), and I think you don't need Dwayne Johnson for a successful franchise.  Rip the band aid off, HARD reboot, and do it right from the ground up.

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Agreed. If you're going to reboot, then you have to commit to a full reboot. Don't half-*** it.

Maybe the report just means they don't like the current pitch for Wonder Woman 3. The rest is just speculation. We'll know a lot more next week after the meeting.

Edited by seminoles1
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27 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Whatever you do with casting, i'd be doing a HARD reboot of the DCEU. 

To start, I completely agree with all of this, just throwing out a stream of thoughts it prompted.

8 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

However, I think with Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman, it's not a necessity.

I dont think you can definitely say this about anyone other than Batman. Which has been proven, and continues to do so, hence why the Reeves series will continue on its own. Gadot is the only real measure for a Wonder Woman (Linda Carter just cant be appropriately compared) and we haven't seen overwhelming support for other female superhero franchises. And you are probably correct about Superman, Returns was a Top 5 movie of the year, but the pick of Kal-El is so important and you already have the perfect guy

27 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

The only one I would maybe keep is Cavill, and that only if you have a loooooooong commitment, like 10 years and 5-8 appearances in the DCEU.

100% Its Superman, he should be everywhere in your universe. He should start it, and he should make appearances in all the major films (where it makes sense) They have halfassedly done that already, but its just one of the many screw ups in the current DCEU.

31 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

When the MCU started, RDJ was a mid level star recently coming back after major tarnishing, Hemsworth was essentially a nobody, Evans was a low to mid level star.  Ed Norton was their big pull, and he was one and out.  You don't need megastars to launch a mega franchise when the characters themselves are this kind of star power.

Yes, they got very lucky that they hit on all of them other than Norton. BUT at the same time didnt the DCEU already do this and nail it? Cavil wasnt much before MoS, his biggest headline was as a runner up to the next James Bond. And Gadot was really just the Fast franchise. In this scenario Affleck is your Norton, and you should just recast, JUST like the MCU did.

42 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Boot Miller, give up on Gadot, recast Mamoa into another role (or even let him go), and I think you don't need Dwayne Johnson for a successful franchise.  Rip the band aid off, HARD reboot, and do it right from the ground up.

No one will argue to drop Miller, I would actually suggest maybe even dropping The Flash completely for a minute to give everyone a palate cleanser

The WW thing could be so delicate, Id be very weary of moving off Gadot, she has a Massive following as Princess Dianna

I shared the same sentiment on Mamoa, Id actually flip him and make him one of you first fun Villains, would clear out any confusion right away. Havent really thought of who you'd use, but he could be the Loki of your universe, keep him as another throughline

And you are completely right, you dont need Dwayne at all, but once you have him its hard to walk away from that cash cow. Hes the one who should have been Lobo, hed be perfect for it, not whatever they did with Black Adam.

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I strongly disagree that you should build a shared movie universe with Superman being your Ironman central character guy. Superman can easily solve any problem because he’s so powerful. The reason Ironman worked so well was because he was both A) just a regular human with no inherent super powers, and B) all of his gadgets can help the other characters in a story accomplish their goal.  DCs best character for this role would be Batman not Superman. They honestly should shelve Superman till many years down the road. That way the bad guys will have scaled up to Superman sized threats. 

Edited by MKnight82
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I agree with @MKnight82.

Superman should not be your focal character.  Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but now, he should essentially be the Thor of the DCEU.

Batman is the easy choice, and its not even close.   He is by far the most popular, has by far the best rogues gallery of any superhero aside from maybe Spiderman, and is the only one not OP as hell.

The next most logical IMO would be Green Lantern or Flash, but theyd have to be done the right way.

Im sticking with Batman though.   Makes too much sense.  In comparison to MCU, they should treat the characters like this (in terms of priority of focus...)

Batman = Iron Man

Superman = Thor

Wonder Woman = Captain America

Green Lantern = Captain Marvel (but earlier appearance)

Flash = Spider Man 

Green Arrow = Hawkeye

Martian Manhunter = Vision (maybe slightly more focus)

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6 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Agreed. If you're going to reboot, then you have to commit to a full reboot. Don't half-*** it.

Maybe the report just means they don't like the current pitch for Wonder Woman 3. The rest is just speculation. We'll know a lot more next week after the meeting.

Apparently they tossed Patty Jenkins, but a third one isn’t 100% cancelled. Probably just going to tap the breaks and find new creative.

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18 minutes ago, 43M said:

I agree with @MKnight82.

Superman should not be your focal character.  Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but now, he should essentially be the Thor of the DCEU.

Batman is the easy choice, and its not even close.   He is by far the most popular, has by far the best rogues gallery of any superhero aside from maybe Spiderman, and is the only one not OP as hell.

The next most logical IMO would be Green Lantern or Flash, but theyd have to be done the right way.

Im sticking with Batman though.   Makes too much sense.  In comparison to MCU, they should treat the characters like this (in terms of priority of focus...)

Batman = Iron Man

Superman = Thor

Wonder Woman = Captain America

Green Lantern = Captain Marvel (but earlier appearance)

Flash = Spider Man 

Green Arrow = Hawkeye

Martian Manhunter = Vision (maybe slightly more focus)

I’d say even make Green Lantern = Hulk + GotG, because if they do it right we get Lantern Corps. With one of them coming to Earth for event stuff (Hulk)

It’s tough because really they should do like two phases of no Justice League. Let them all do their thing and then come together. Do team ups and stuff, but I sorta dislike how much the rest of the DC Universe hampers their more focused parts of the universe. Like Batman and Green Lantern would do way better to mostly be separate.

Just a personal feeling, if Batman is as overly involved as Ironman out the gate it’s going to be disappointing. Unless they are just saying 

  • Barry came back to reset universe to the point he left. So it’s like 2025, but all the events of the universe are different. Similar to the DC Rebirth reset. Can reuse some actors and change others, totally reshape things
  • You are starting people further on their path. For instance with Batman you go year 10-14 Bats, Grayson is Robin. Barbara is involved. Many of the villains are set up.
  • We skip the origins

I think the benefits of doing this is you get to that second generation that has a lot of good more relatable characters in it quickly. DC can barely do 1 phase, let alone get to the point Marvel is at with Legacy characters and more younger heroes stepping in. Starting on 2nd base would do them well. I’d be far more into seeing Raven explored than more than half the Justice League. Overall they could also separate themselves to committing to JLDark and the supernatural as a core thing. Marvel is dabbling but seems to be on the fringe.

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3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I’d say even make Green Lantern = Hulk + GotG, because if they do it right we get Lantern Corps. With one of them coming to Earth for event stuff (Hulk)

It’s tough because really they should do like two phases of no Justice League. Let them all do their thing and then come together. Do team ups and stuff, but I sorta dislike how much the rest of the DC Universe hampers their more focused parts of the universe. Like Batman and Green Lantern would do way better to mostly be separate.

Just a personal feeling, if Batman is as overly involved as Ironman out the gate it’s going to be disappointing. Unless they are just saying 

  • Barry came back to reset universe to the point he left. So it’s like 2025, but all the events of the universe are different. Similar to the DC Rebirth reset. Can reuse some actors and change others, totally reshape things
  • You are starting people further on their path. For instance with Batman you go year 10-14 Bats, Grayson is Robin. Barbara is involved. Many of the villains are set up.
  • We skip the origins

I think the benefits of doing this is you get to that second generation that has a lot of good more relatable characters in it quickly. DC can barely do 1 phase, let alone get to the point Marvel is at with Legacy characters and more younger heroes stepping in. Starting on 2nd base would do them well. I’d be far more into seeing Raven explored than more than half the Justice League. Overall they could also separate themselves to committing to JLDark and the supernatural as a core thing. Marvel is dabbling but seems to be on the fringe.

For the record, if they aren't doing a hard reset, I like the idea of reshooting much of Flash and having everything change except a few things.

Id keep Mamoa, Cavill and Levi.

Recast Miller (for obvious reasons), Affleck (need someone younger) and Gadot (very limited acting ability and WW84 completely ruined her and Jenkins IMO).

And please freaking recast a proper Lex Luther and Lois Lane.    

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59 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I’d say even make Green Lantern = Hulk + GotG, because if they do it right we get Lantern Corps. With one of them coming to Earth for event stuff (Hulk)

It’s tough because really they should do like two phases of no Justice League. Let them all do their thing and then come together. Do team ups and stuff, but I sorta dislike how much the rest of the DC Universe hampers their more focused parts of the universe. Like Batman and Green Lantern would do way better to mostly be separate.

Just a personal feeling, if Batman is as overly involved as Ironman out the gate it’s going to be disappointing. Unless they are just saying 

  • Barry came back to reset universe to the point he left. So it’s like 2025, but all the events of the universe are different. Similar to the DC Rebirth reset. Can reuse some actors and change others, totally reshape things
  • You are starting people further on their path. For instance with Batman you go year 10-14 Bats, Grayson is Robin. Barbara is involved. Many of the villains are set up.
  • We skip the origins

I think the benefits of doing this is you get to that second generation that has a lot of good more relatable characters in it quickly. DC can barely do 1 phase, let alone get to the point Marvel is at with Legacy characters and more younger heroes stepping in. Starting on 2nd base would do them well. I’d be far more into seeing Raven explored than more than half the Justice League. Overall they could also separate themselves to committing to JLDark and the supernatural as a core thing. Marvel is dabbling but seems to be on the fringe.

I agree with most of this. But you're going to lose the larger general audience. I know several people who went to see Joker thinking it was a Batman movie. They were utterly disappointed, especially the ones who took kids, and refuse to go back to see DC. Yes, they're dumb for not looking into it before taking kids. But for those who went kid free, they tend to try and avoid spoilers and do no research prior.

As much as I think that we could skip the origins, most can't. It's crazy how much I've had to explain to some people when watching past DC stuff. "Why is Robins suit on display and why are there bullet holes?" "Why is Batman so angry and killing people?" "Who is the machine guy with the red eye?"... etc.

Primary characters like Batman have had their origin story told enough times in the last 10-15 years that I think we can skip them. But the last time characters like Grayson, Barbara, etc were on screen has been somewhere around 25-30 years ago. And you even said Grayson is Robin. Do you really think that enough people will know about Todd, Drake, etc? Their story should be told on screen imo. Just need to find actors willing to sign on for the long haul.

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1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

I agree with most of this. But you're going to lose the larger general audience. I know several people who went to see Joker thinking it was a Batman movie. They were utterly disappointed, especially the ones who took kids, and refuse to go back to see DC. Yes, they're dumb for not looking into it before taking kids. But for those who went kid free, they tend to try and avoid spoilers and do no research prior.

As much as I think that we could skip the origins, most can't. It's crazy how much I've had to explain to some people when watching past DC stuff. "Why is Robins suit on display and why are there bullet holes?" "Why is Batman so angry and killing people?" "Who is the machine guy with the red eye?"... etc.

Primary characters like Batman have had their origin story told enough times in the last 10-15 years that I think we can skip them. But the last time characters like Grayson, Barbara, etc were on screen has been somewhere around 25-30 years ago. And you even said Grayson is Robin. Do you really think that enough people will know about Todd, Drake, etc? Their story should be told on screen imo. Just need to find actors willing to sign on for the long haul.

I agree with you in that origin stories are important when setting up a character in a long term universe. Cap's character arc means very little if we don't see his origin story in the MCU. Tony's motivations throughout through creating Vision have nothing concrete to hold them up. While, yes, generally, we know the origins of these characters a good planner would do them in a way that sets up the character arcs over the course of many movies. 

That being sad, for the sake of humanity

1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

I know several people who went to see Joker thinking it was a Batman movie. They were utterly disappointed, especially the ones who took kids, and refuse to go back to see DC.

This CANNOT me any kind of significant portion of the viewing audience. The movie was rated R FFS. If movies have to sink that low to cater to audiences then we should close up shop. Movies are over, pack it in, we will never get a good one again. 

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23 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This CANNOT me any kind of significant portion of the viewing audience. The movie was rated R FFS. If movies have to sink that low to cater to audiences then we should close up shop. Movies are over, pack it in, we will never get a good one again. 

Oh I laughed hard when I got told that story. He still receives ridicule for it. At the same time though, Joker was really the first of its kind in that it didn't include any heroes at all. His wife refuses to see DC but he's still in. That also means that the wife won't take the kids to a DC movie though. Plus, Suicide Squad and Peacemaker didn't really help for her seeing DC as kid friendly -- which I personally love.

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