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Wide Receivers or lack there of


Mastercheddaar

Anyone Surprised By This?   

7 members have voted

  1. 1. Anyone Surprised By This?

    • Yes! I'm shocked!
      1
    • Not really.
      5
    • Insert Meme of Superman drinking at a bar here.
      1


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8 hours ago, brownie man said:

Lmao your going to postpone judgement on our receivers because they having yet hit year 3

But You'll proclaim Kizer who is a quarterback a bust after 8 games when QB out of any position would take the longest time to develop 

let that sink in 

Agreed 100%. Absolutely horrific logic.

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8 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

I would take Tebow 10 out of 10 times vs Kizer.  Kizer has a stronger arm, he throws a prettier pass, both are inaccurate, Tebow however has leadership out the ying yang, Kizer has zero.  Tebow also processed much faster.

Question: How can you be deemed "inaccurate" but have passes go off of guys, hands, numbers, and facemasks?

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29 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Question: How can you be deemed "inaccurate" but have passes go off of guys, hands, numbers, and facemasks?

Mostly because the passes that do not go off the guys hands, numbers and face masks are no where near the player.  I've watched a lot of Kizer and though our WR's don't help him, he is not consistently accurate.  Unfortunately accuracy doesn't appear to be something you can learn...

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1 minute ago, CBrownsman said:

Mostly because the passes that do not go off the guys hands, numbers and face masks are no where near the player.  I've watched a lot of Kizer and though our WR's don't help him, he is not consistently accurate.  Unfortunately accuracy doesn't appear to be something you can learn...

My point is that I refuse to put it all on Kizer, I know he has plenty of culpability but if the receiver isn't running the correct route, and the coach tells you specifically throw to a spot, and not the actual receiver, and the receiver is not there when the ball arrives, it will appear as Kizer being inaccurate, when a lot of the times, its the receiver's fault. But like I said, Kizer has plenty of culpability, but Kizer is a rookie, those receivers aren't

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7 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

My point is that I refuse to put it all on Kizer, I know he has plenty of culpability but if the receiver isn't running the correct route, and the coach tells you specifically throw to a spot, and not the actual receiver, and the receiver is not there when the ball arrives, it will appear as Kizer being inaccurate, when a lot of the times, its the receiver's fault. But like I said, Kizer has plenty of culpability, but Kizer is a rookie, those receivers aren't

That is true.  Its hard to tell whether those situations are Kizer's fault in seeing a receiver and being inaccurate or if he is being told to throw to a spot on the field and the receiver isn't there.  It is easy to tell however when Njoku is streaking down the field and Kizer overthrows him by 5-10 yards, or on an easy dump to the RB the ball gets thrown at his feet, who's fault that is however. I did notice in the Tennessee and Minnesota games that he was doing a much better job of throwing the ball before the receiver came out of his break as opposed to waiting for them to get open, which I was happy about, I want to see more of that.  Kizer is a rookie and is stupid young, and maybe he will pan out someday, unfortunately I don't believe it will be before we have to make a decision on another QB to replace him, just the downfall of the business I guess.

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1 hour ago, CBrownsman said:

That is true.  Its hard to tell whether those situations are Kizer's fault in seeing a receiver and being inaccurate or if he is being told to throw to a spot on the field and the receiver isn't there.  It is easy to tell however when Njoku is streaking down the field and Kizer overthrows him by 5-10 yards, or on an easy dump to the RB the ball gets thrown at his feet, who's fault that is however. I did notice in the Tennessee and Minnesota games that he was doing a much better job of throwing the ball before the receiver came out of his break as opposed to waiting for them to get open, which I was happy about, I want to see more of that.  Kizer is a rookie and is stupid young, and maybe he will pan out someday, unfortunately I don't believe it will be before we have to make a decision on another QB to replace him, just the downfall of the business I guess.

I can agree with that

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17 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

They are capable, they are competent, and they are absolutely roster worthy.  Moving them creates more holes.  They are good 3 and 4 type of WRs with room to grow. 

Lol,,,,

Ricardo is not competent and he is not capable. Over the two years, he's dropped repeated big catches that could've changed the outcome of the game. Routes are trash as well.

Higgins is not competent and capable b/c he can't separate..

What is the basis by which you state they are competent and capable...what is this evidence that you speak of?

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3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Question: How can you be deemed "inaccurate" but have passes go off of guys, hands, numbers, and facemasks?

For seemingly the 1000 th time.  There have been some drops that are not on Kizer.  Therese are not used in determining that he is inaccurate.  What is, is over throwing WRs by 15 yards when they are wide open, what is are so many completions to wide open WRs that would have been huge run after catch gains with decent ball placement, but instead he either threw them into immediate tackles, to the ground to make the catch, or led them out of bounds.  These are what makes him horribly innacurate.  The drops are not.

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24 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Lol,,,,

Ricardo is not competent and he is not capable. Over the two years, he's dropped repeated big catches that could've changed the outcome of the game. Routes are trash as well.

Higgins is not competent and capable b/c he can't separate..

What is the basis by which you state they are competent and capable...what is this evidence that you speak of?

Quite simple, I have seen both players make multiple plays with trash qb play.  With adequate qb play, and a real wr1, I have no doubt hat they would be just fine at their roles.  Also you do realize that your description of Louis are the same things that folks said about Terrell Owens for his entire career right?

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2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

My point is that I refuse to put it all on Kizer, I know he has plenty of culpability but if the receiver isn't running the correct route, and the coach tells you specifically throw to a spot, and not the actual receiver, and the receiver is not there when the ball arrives, it will appear as Kizer being inaccurate, when a lot of the times, its the receiver's fault. But like I said, Kizer has plenty of culpability, but Kizer is a rookie, those receivers aren't

If this were the case, logic would say that both kessler and hogan would have the same accuracy issues would it not?  Well they don’t.  They are not good, but they are far more accurate than Kizer.  Next cop out or excuse for Kizer for me to dump all over please?

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22 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

@Mind Character My point being these WRs would look a LOT different (better) if they didnt have the 35th best QB in the NFL throwing them the ball. Kizer does nothing to help out the current WRs. Give these WRs a top 15 QB who can actually hit them on target coming out of breaks in the hands and complete the wide open passes and you would view them different.

Kizer misses SOOOOOOO many WRs its not even funny when they are wide open. Even when he hits a WR, the ball is rarely in a easily catchable spot. They all have to reach behind them to get it, jump to get it and dive to catch everything completely negating any/all YAC ability anybody might have.

We have no idea how good these WRs are because the QB throwing them the ball is garbage and doesnt consistently put anybody in position to excel.

WRs dont make the QB better, the QB makes the WRs better as I cited with numerous examples with Demaryius Thomas, Emmanual Sanders, DeAndre Hopkins, TY Hilton, Donte Moncreif, Antonio Brown.

Look how good Willie Snead and Taylor Gabriel look with Brees and Ryan throwing them the ball. In Cleveland they were both cut and looked like trash. Amazing what happens to a WR when the QB can actually get them the ball and hit them in the hands in stride on timing routes.

WRs don't make the QB better???? LOL....are u serious?

That logic flows from a false binary/dichotomy of thought: That is, Either 1.)WRs make QBs better, OR 2) QBs make WRs....choose one....only one can be true...

It's a dynamic relationship...and the truth is..GASP...They make each other better and rely on one another...

It is also possible to say that "if our QB play was better our WR play would be better" AND "our WRs are not competent nor are they capable so we need an overhaul"....

It's a false binary/dichotomy to think it's either 1. The bad offensive play is the QBs fault or 2. the WRs fault...not both.

There's responsibility all around.

The question is based on those players' individual performances, flashes of ability in college and the pros, are these players worthy of a roster spot or can they actually be impact players.

We have seen flashes from Kizer as well as garbage...we have seen consistent garbage from Ricardo, Britt, & Higgins.

If you disagree, I'd advise you to watch the all22 and see how the WRs truly run into the DBs,don't know how to run a route into open space, blatantly telegraph their breaks, run routes in the same are incorrectly, not coming back to the ball, giving up on the play and not following scramble rules, etc....

I'm not even talking about what happens when the ball comes their way...which is really bad drops.

We have an idea of how good the WRs are. Dropping the ball is not something that improves over time especially when these WRs have had these problems their whole career.

Willie Snead and Gabriel were not trash. Gabriel had a big breakout season with great catches followed by an inconsistent, injury plagued season.

Snead never got an opportunity and was a misevaluation...That year he came out I had him as the 12th best WR and the draft and many scouting outlets had him as a sleeper b/c of his long arms, big hands, and fantastic jump ball ability, as well as competitive fire.

Ricardo and Higgins did not have any of those qualities coming out in college. Ricardo was an explosive athlete whose hands were so bad they considered switching him to CB. He was a projection.

Higgins...was a steady WR who ran great routes and dominated bad DBs but the question always was could he separate at the next level. If he couldn't, he would be JAG...that has been proven to be true.

They are 5th and 6th receivers at best and there is a reason why Higgins was cut from a group that was already deficient.

Snead and Gabriel were on a different level and comparing them doesn't have a basis based on their college film evaluation (not just mine but real scouting experts) as well as their pro play to this point

 

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2 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

Quite simple, I have seen both players make multiple plays with trash qb play.  With adequate qb play, and a read wr1, I have no doubt hat they would be just fine at their rolls.  Also you do realize that your description of Louis are the same things that folks said about Terrell Owens for his entire career right?

So, Ricardo Louis is TO now...lol.

Terrelle Owens had production and big catches at Chattanooga AND 8 TDs and 14 TDs his 2nd and 3rd year in the league. He also made big jump ball plays his rookie year.

Here's what you miss: The description I've made about Ricardo Louis has also been said about numerous other players that remained garbage not just the Hall of famer you bring up.

No, I remember TO's career well and he never dropped the ball like this in SF. He dropped the ball some AND made big catches on the ball..

The only thing Ricardo has in similarity with TO is that they are big and strong athletes...in terms of receiving skills (the ability to catch the ball and get open primarily) they are in different universes at the same point in their development.

QB play plays a role in both their successes/struggles but in Louis' case he never has possessed the ability to consistently catch the ball and run routes to get open...never...and to this point he has yet to show that when he was giving opportunities in the titans game last year with Kessler or repeated games of drops and bad routes this year.

He's made a few good plays but they are few and far between.

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2 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

Quite simple, I have seen both players make multiple plays with trash qb play.  With adequate qb play, and a real wr1, I have no doubt hat they would be just fine at their roles.  Also you do realize that your description of Louis are the same things that folks said about Terrell Owens for his entire career right?

Wow, TO you say? What big catches has Louis had, hell, what touchdowns has Louis had in his career. You want to critique everyone else, explain.

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5 hours ago, Mind Character said:

So, Ricardo Louis is TO now...lol.

Terrelle Owens had production and big catches at Chattanooga AND 8 TDs and 14 TDs his 2nd and 3rd year in the league. He also made big jump ball plays his rookie year.

Here's what you miss: The description I've made about Ricardo Louis has also been said about numerous other players that remained garbage not just the Hall of famer you bring up.

No, I remember TO's career well and he never dropped the ball like this in SF. He dropped the ball some AND made big catches on the ball..

The only thing Ricardo has in similarity with TO is that they are big and strong athletes...in terms of receiving skills (the ability to catch the ball and get open primarily) they are in different universes at the same point in their development.

QB play plays a role in both their successes/struggles but in Louis' case he never has possessed the ability to consistently catch the ball and run routes to get open...never...and to this point he has yet to show that when he was giving opportunities in the titans game last year with Kessler or repeated games of drops and bad routes this year.

He's made a few good plays but they are few and far between.

One, I never said Louis was TO, I simply made the observation that the criticisms you heap upon him were also heaped upon TO for the duration of his career.  I actually said Louis would be a very good 3 or 4 WR.  That said, TO always had good QB play, something Louis has never had.  Believe it or not, that makes a difference.  Louis has flashed the ability to make big plays.  Really you can't expect anything more than flashes with the worst QB play in the league.  Bring in QB play and see if those flashes are more frequent.

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Up until now, I have firmly been on the Ricardo Louis bandwagon. My reasoning was that he had only switched to WR while at Auburn, and with time, he would mature into a competent NFL WR. I mean, c'mon - 6*4" and 215 with speed - you can justify some on the job training.

I put up with the drops he had throughout this season, chalking it up to growing into the position. But the time has come to sever my ties of support for Ricardo. I seriously question if he ever will "get it".

Today's debacle was the final straw.He was in the wrong formation, and when Kizer stopped to correct him - he still ended up in the wrong formation. That forced Kizer to have to burn a time out - late in the first half. That ended up being a VERY expensive timeout - as we all know what happened at the end of the first half.

And true he was interfered with and no call - but I would think a second year receiver would know how to fight for the ball better - and give the ref no option but to call the penalty.

But the cherry on top was the last series of the came. True, he got jammed on the route - but he gave up on it, and that GAVE Detroit the interception and the game.

Officially moving on from Ricardo.

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