Jump to content
RamRod

General Season Talk

Recommended Posts

I think the fake punt that Fassel called against the Cardinals kick him out of Sean favor. I never saw Sean so mad after anyone like this in the sideline...

i don't know  what to think of these departure. Is this the beginning of the end for Mcvay ? I hope i'm wrong but it looks like he's becoming a dictator for the team.

He hired Wade for his defense experience and he always said that he wanted to focus on the offensive side. Now it looks like he wants to control the defense too and if Barry is hired i don't think Barry has enough experience to hold back Mcvay on this side. Same thing for ST. 

I don't see these move as positive for the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rams are interested in bring in kevin o'connell as oc but we have zero chance he will join the rams,
because he will take the oc job in cleveland under josh mcdaniels.

i'm not sure but this would be sean's first miss and getting a "no".
the wunderkind kinda lost his touch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Flounch said:

I think the fake punt that Fassel called against the Cardinals kick him out of Sean favor. I never saw Sean so mad after anyone like this in the sideline...

i don't know  what to think of these departure. Is this the beginning of the end for Mcvay ? I hope i'm wrong but it looks like he's becoming a dictator for the team.

He hired Wade for his defense experience and he always said that he wanted to focus on the offensive side. Now it looks like he wants to control the defense too and if Barry is hired i don't think Barry has enough experience to hold back Mcvay on this side. Same thing for ST. 

I don't see these move as positive for the future.

 

He hired Wade to run the defense and learn from him. 

He has learned and now wants to take over. We are seeing the progression of a young coach. This is a positive; not him becoming a dictator. 

Losing Bones was not good, I'll agree there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

He hired Wade to run the defense and learn from him. 

He has learned and now wants to take over. We are seeing the progression of a young coach. This is a positive; not him becoming a dictator. 

Losing Bones was not good, I'll agree there. 

Counterpoint, not so much to you, but to people bemoaning McVay taking a heavier hand in the defense before he even does.  If he does this, even Sean knows he presses up on a saturation point wherein he shouldn't/won't saddle himself with more responsibility than he can handle.  There's a reason why despite coordinators coming and going for the past 20ish years the schemes of Belichick's teams haven't really changed all that much.  Different playcallers, some tweaks here and there, but ultimately variations on the same themes.

Sean becoming more a thematic figurehead (a coaching CEO as it were) if it results in him giving over some of the offensive play-calling wouldn't be a terrible thing - and that may be something he's come to realize, just not be the best at verbalizing, over the past season when he says, "He needs to do better."

Losing Bones isn't great, I agree.  But I don't feel like the plays that Bones was calling in terms of fakes, coverages, etc. were something so novel that they're exclusively his.  When it comes to special teams plays there are only so many ways you can skin a cat so to speak.  He was a fantastic culture guy, absolutely.  But, barring us bringing in someone who goes to bat for last-to-make-a-roster-types who lack technical soundness in terms of their tackling and processing, he's not irreplaceable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This means nothing, but fun to speculate... Natrez Patrick posted a pic on IG saying "Let's build" and Dante Fowler commented "We just getting started".

Again, it means nothing and its 2020 type of reporting meaning a comment on IG, but it's a blip of insight that Fowler's initial reaction is to think he's there with his teammates next season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

This means nothing, but fun to speculate... Natrez Patrick posted a pic on IG saying "Let's build" and Dante Fowler commented "We just getting started".

Again, it means nothing and its 2020 type of reporting meaning a comment on IG, but it's a blip of insight that Fowler's initial reaction is to think he's there with his teammates next season. 

Real talk even though I’m not a huge Dante fan. He certainly is a big peace and would love to keep him. there are games where he’s unstoppable and games where you forget he’s playing. But he does always find a way to make a play when we need it most

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

This means nothing, but fun to speculate... Natrez Patrick posted a pic on IG saying "Let's build" and Dante Fowler commented "We just getting started".

Again, it means nothing and its 2020 type of reporting meaning a comment on IG, but it's a blip of insight that Fowler's initial reaction is to think he's there with his teammates next season. 

Ultimately, my biggest question with regard to Fowler is fit into the new scheme - and that's tough to gauge since no one but Staley can say what that scheme is right now (we can make assumptions that he'll run something akin to what Fangio does, but none of us other than the one NCAA D2 fan from another sub who came in to comment on the hire, know for certain what his tendencies are as an out-and-out DC).

Fowler's lack of quality run-defense works against him if we're talking a Fangio type system because that prioritizes versatility at all positions not named NT, the same way Wade prioritized versatility with the safety position.  Which OLB is the SOLB is determined based upon which side the opposing TE lines up, and that guy is expected to chip/jam the TE at the line and be able to drop off into short zone to cover that TE.  I don't feel great about Fowler doing that, but I don't think he's a liability (for his likely cost though you want someone that's more than "not a liability").  Also, both LB's need to be highly dependable to make consistent open field tackles of RB's in space, because two of the three downed DL are being tasked primarily with commanding double-teams in order to free up the LB's to make those plays.  Fowler has arguably improved in this department since coming over from Jacksonville, but has he improved enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The LBC said:

Ultimately, my biggest question with regard to Fowler is fit into the new scheme - and that's tough to gauge since no one but Staley can say what that scheme is right now (we can make assumptions that he'll run something akin to what Fangio does, but none of us other than the one NCAA D2 fan from another sub who came in to comment on the hire, know for certain what his tendencies are as an out-and-out DC).

Fowler's lack of quality run-defense works against him if we're talking a Fangio type system because that prioritizes versatility at all positions not named NT, the same way Wade prioritized versatility with the safety position.  Which OLB is the SOLB is determined based upon which side the opposing TE lines up, and that guy is expected to chip/jam the TE at the line and be able to drop off into short zone to cover that TE.  I don't feel great about Fowler doing that, but I don't think he's a liability (for his likely cost though you want someone that's more than "not a liability").  Also, both LB's need to be highly dependable to make consistent open field tackles of RB's in space, because two of the three downed DL are being tasked primarily with commanding double-teams in order to free up the LB's to make those plays.  Fowler has arguably improved in this department since coming over from Jacksonville, but has he improved enough?

What about DE in a 4-3.. I know you said he runs a weird 2 something. But I’ve seen Mack rush standing up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The LBC said:

Ultimately, my biggest question with regard to Fowler is fit into the new scheme - and that's tough to gauge since no one but Staley can say what that scheme is right now (we can make assumptions that he'll run something akin to what Fangio does, but none of us other than the one NCAA D2 fan from another sub who came in to comment on the hire, know for certain what his tendencies are as an out-and-out DC).

Fowler's lack of quality run-defense works against him if we're talking a Fangio type system because that prioritizes versatility at all positions not named NT, the same way Wade prioritized versatility with the safety position.  Which OLB is the SOLB is determined based upon which side the opposing TE lines up, and that guy is expected to chip/jam the TE at the line and be able to drop off into short zone to cover that TE.  I don't feel great about Fowler doing that, but I don't think he's a liability (for his likely cost though you want someone that's more than "not a liability").  Also, both LB's need to be highly dependable to make consistent open field tackles of RB's in space, because two of the three downed DL are being tasked primarily with commanding double-teams in order to free up the LB's to make those plays.  Fowler has arguably improved in this department since coming over from Jacksonville, but has he improved enough?

Clearly you have a good grasp on the scheme conceptually, so I won't debate you there. But if this coach has worked with Khalil Mack/Leonard Floyd and Von Miller/ Bradley Chubb and needs his positions to be versatile, it sounds like we need another OLB opposite Fowler. So letting Fowler walk is not something I'm in favor of. Now, can Oko be that guy? I think possibly. Ebukam could kick inside, I want no part of Clay Matthews if his responsibilities need to expand outside of pass rushing. Jachai Polite? Great project, but nothing to count on.

I think a darkhorse could be Natrez Patrick. A full offseason under his belt and I think he has the talent/athleticism to start in this league. If not, maybe a Vic Beasley will come cheap on one year prove it deal. Doubt Von Miller would become a cap casualty, but you really never know given his down year and a commitment to Chubb. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

Clearly you have a good grasp on the scheme conceptually, so I won't debate you there. But if this coach has worked with Khalil Mack/Leonard Floyd and Von Miller/ Bradley Chubb and needs his positions to be versatile, it sounds like we need another OLB opposite Fowler. So letting Fowler walk is not something I'm in favor of. Now, can Oko be that guy? I think possibly. Ebukam could kick inside, I want no part of Clay Matthews if his responsibilities need to expand outside of pass rushing. Jachai Polite? Great project, but nothing to count on.

I think a darkhorse could be Natrez Patrick. A full offseason under his belt and I think he has the talent/athleticism to start in this league. If not, maybe a Vic Beasley will come cheap on one year prove it deal. Doubt Von Miller would become a cap casualty, but you really never know given his down year and a commitment to Chubb. 

Letting Fowler walk if/when he can only do one of the things the new coordinator demands of the position versus paying him $18m+ (the franchise tag amount alone)  is the smarter move.  All those guy you listed, with the possible exception of Floyd, were more proven run defenders than Fowler and, with the exception of Chubb, were more proven pass-defenders.  I know he's not popular because people think he's overpaid, but Clay has more experience doing what would be asked of an OLB in a Fangio system than Fowler does, and - for the moment at least - he's a sunk-cost.  Would we likely need another OLB moving forward?  Very likely... even if Natrez Patrick comes good... largely because if he hasn't found the consistency to scratch his ceiling by now, there's little chance Fowler hits it.  Honestly, Littleton has more value to the scheme if slightly overpaid than Fowler does, because of the premium put on having ultra-athletic ILB's who can blitz and cover RB's.  Ahmad Brooks functioned fine as an edge guy in this system, which gives me faith that at least one of Patrick or Ebukam can.  Polite is an outside shot, but one all the same and we're likely to take another late round flier on a length/athleticism upside guy that (now that Barry's presumably gone to USC) we might actually have to kind of coach in place to coach up and develop.

One thing I'm supremely confident in though is that pass-rushers (even ones who previously had 1st round hype that didn't pan out) won't come cheap unless they're coming off of a season-ending injury.  The sheer demand on the market will inflate their value artificially.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Letting Fowler walk if/when he can only do one of the things the new coordinator demands of the position versus paying him $18m+ (the franchise tag amount alone)  is the smarter move.  All those guy you listed, with the possible exception of Floyd, were more proven run defenders than Fowler and, with the exception of Chubb, were more proven pass-defenders.  I know he's not popular because people think he's overpaid, but Clay has more experience doing what would be asked of an OLB in a Fangio system than Fowler does, and - for the moment at least - he's a sunk-cost.  Would we likely need another OLB moving forward?  Very likely... even if Natrez Patrick comes good... largely because if he hasn't found the consistency to scratch his ceiling by now, there's little chance Fowler hits it.  Honestly, Littleton has more value to the scheme if slightly overpaid than Fowler does, because of the premium put on having ultra-athletic ILB's who can blitz and cover RB's.  Ahmad Brooks functioned fine as an edge guy in this system, which gives me faith that at least one of Patrick or Ebukam can.  Polite is an outside shot, but one all the same and we're likely to take another late round flier on a length/athleticism upside guy that (now that Barry's presumably gone to USC) we might actually have to kind of coach in place to coach up and develop.

One thing I'm supremely confident in though is that pass-rushers (even ones who previously had 1st round hype that didn't pan out) won't come cheap unless they're coming off of a season-ending injury.  The sheer demand on the market will inflate their value artificially.

Fowler played quality run D this year. I think we'll likely tag him. Won't be surprised if tag and trade him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, The LBC said:

he's a sunk-cost

Hes not a sunk cost, the majority of his contract left is non-guarenteed money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Hes not a sunk cost, the majority of his contract left is non-guarenteed money

I meant it more in the respect that he's under contract, Fowler isn't.  I just don't want people looking at what the Packers did last season (swapping out both edge rushers in the same offseason and having it hit the ground running with a high level of success) and thinking that it's more rule than exception to the rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×