Do you know enough to give up on Deshone Kizer?

[bruceb]

5 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

I know enough to know that we have to proceed with decisions as if Deshone Kizer is not the franchise QB.

This is what it boils down to.

Even if he is "lights out" for real here on out, our 1st pick has to be the best available QB.

[pscottdai]

I voted more time but am referring to the rest of this season.

[DizzyDean]

1 hour ago, brooks1957 said:

He is only TWENTY ONE years old. When he matures as a human, his game will follow

at 21, a person's cognitive processing speeds should be at their absolute peak.  He is not going to learn to process any faster.  Of course he can learn new things, lots of them, but the rate at which he processes will not significantly improve.  So......

[roger murdock]

I am not certain he's not the one. I am 100% certain he cannot be our starter next season if we want to even think about winning games. We need a starter for the next 2-3 years and it cannot be Kizer. He can maybe develop and play eventually, it wouldn't surprise me at all but right now he is not one of the 32 best QBs in the NFL. He might not be one of the 60 best QBs in the NFL. He needs to sit and develop and learn. Hes not even close right now and anyone who thinks he is must be kidding themselves.

If I had to guess I'd say in five years these are his odds outcomes:

10% chance good-great starter

20% chance decent starter

30% chance decent to good backup.

40% chance to be fighting for a spot in the league or out of the NFL entirely

[brooks1957]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Hopefully. But if there's a top QB prospect for us to draft next year, I don't think I'd be willing to pass on him on the off chance that Kizer becomes a legitimate franchise QB.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

Even if we think that Kizer is developing nicely, you go get the best QB available.

[DizzyDean]

I think the sit and develop ship has sailed, that is where he was coming out, and he should not have been drafted before round 5 at the earliest.

 

We instead threw him to the wolves and I think he is pretty much completely ruined now.

 

Also, a comment that he made post McCarron debacle has really stuck to me and draws my ire.  He said something like, the attempted trade sends a message to step up his game.... really?  He is a starting QB in the NFL, the effort should have already been at 1000%, not a single ounce more to give.  That statement tells me that the effort has not been where it needs to be at all with him.

[Kiwibrown]

13 minutes ago, DizzyDean said:

I think the sit and develop ship has sailed, that is where he was coming out, and he should not have been drafted before round 5 at the earliest.

 

We instead threw him to the wolves and I think he is pretty much completely ruined now.

 

Also, a comment that he made post McCarron debacle has really stuck to me and draws my ire.  He said something like, the attempted trade sends a message to step up his game.... really?  He is a starting QB in the NFL, the effort should have already been at 1000%, not a single ounce more to give.  That statement tells me that the effort has not been where it needs to be at all with him.

I don't think he has been cruising. It is athlete talk. they always have to frame their mind in unrealisic, positive terms. 

I would be more worried if he believed he was a bust and the worst QB in the league. A QB like that can't play like that. 

[DizzyDean]

1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

I don't think he has been cruising. It is athlete talk. they always have to frame their mind in unrealisic, positive terms. 

I would be more worried if he believed he was a bust and the worst QB in the league. A QB like that can't play like that. 

He is not a dumb kid.  Fairly certain that he does know he is a bust and the worst QB in the league thus far.  He just can't say it.

[Dogbite]

2 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

at 21, a person's cognitive processing speeds should be at their absolute peak.  He is not going to learn to process any faster.  Of course he can learn new things, lots of them, but the rate at which he processes will not significantly improve.  So......

This might be the absolute dumbest comment I have read on here. And I hated the Kizer pick and still do and say we are better off moving forward with a new QB. I wouldn't even be opposed to dumping him for a 4th or 5th round pick to a coach who thinks he can fix him. The human brain doesn't even come close to its physical peak at 21. Hell I wish it did. My athletic career would have gone so much better if I were able to see things as quickly at 21 as I did later in life when I took up coaching in my early 30s. Even then when I first started coaching what I was seeing and how quickly I was seeing things greatly improved from my 1st year to years 4, 5 and 6.

 

I do not believe Kizer is ever going to be worth a darn but it won't be because his cognitive processing has already reached its peak.

[H2ThaIzzo]

10 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

It’s really the other way around.  You can’t hold our WRs accountable for Kizer.

if Kizer had remained about the same as he was coming out of the preseason I would have a more wait and see perspective.  He has not.  He has regressed at an alarming rate, even for a project.  The kid just doesn’t have it mentally, and has horrible accuracy to go along with it.

I actually agree with you 100%. He looked so poised in the preseason. Even in the game where he didn't have a high completion rate, he didn't look fazed at all. He was a 3rd down conversion machine. His deep ball was being thrown accurately, where guys could actually catch it. He was decisive in getting the ball out. Some of the complaints we have had have been our receivers don't get open. I mean, sure, thats part of the issue. But you have to make throws to give them a chance to make a contested play. Some of the routes being run require him to get the ball out fast, it's not about the guy being wide open, but about the preciseness of the timing of the route and throw. The TE screen we all can't stand, it's not a great play first off, but when the QB throws behind the TE, it takes away any chance at actually getting positive yardage. 

 

I question play calling at some point every weekend, no denying. However, lets not pretend that we are getting to the redzone every week and receivers are dropping passes in the end zone. Our red zone offense has been brutal because our QB doesn't throw accurately in the red zone. Our vertical passing game hasn't worked because Kizer has overthrown nearly every deep ball thrown. Kizer needs to step up a lot the last half of the season or it won't matter, we will be drafting someone high or signing a guy to be our starting QB. 

[DizzyDean]

1 hour ago, Dogbite said:

This might be the absolute dumbest comment I have read on here. And I hated the Kizer pick and still do and say we are better off moving forward with a new QB. I wouldn't even be opposed to dumping him for a 4th or 5th round pick to a coach who thinks he can fix him. The human brain doesn't even come close to its physical peak at 21. Hell I wish it did. My athletic career would have gone so much better if I were able to see things as quickly at 21 as I did later in life when I took up coaching in my early 30s. Even then when I first started coaching what I was seeing and how quickly I was seeing things greatly improved from my 1st year to years 4, 5 and 6.

 

I do not believe Kizer is ever going to be worth a darn but it won't be because his cognitive processing has already reached its peak.

Thats a good point, if you completely ignore neuroscience.  

http://www.basicknowledge101.com/subjects/brain.html

[Dogbite]

7 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

Thats a good point, if you completely ignore neuroscience.  

http://www.basicknowledge101.com/subjects/brain.html

 

Yeah I am going to ignore it. I have been around along time and have seen far too many examples of the longer someone is in something the faster they process what they are seeing. Science has been a huge contradiction my entire life. When I was in grade school the earth was only 1 million years old the 50 years later it is somehow 65 million years old. I cannot think of anything off the top of my head right now by there are hundred of examples of science saying this is true....just kidding we were wrong but this is true now.......wait we were wrong that time too but believe us this is true this time.

I have lived it and I have seen others live it especially in the football world. Especially in football you see things happen much faster once you're in it 4-5 years.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, Dogbite said:

 

Yeah I am going to ignore it. I have been around along time and have seen far too many examples of the longer someone is in something the faster they process what they are seeing. Science has been a huge contradiction my entire life. When I was in grade school the earth was only 1 million years old the 50 years later it is somehow 65 million years old. I cannot think of anything off the top of my head right now by there are hundred of examples of science saying this is true....just kidding we were wrong but this is true now.......wait we were wrong that time too but believe us this is true this time.

I have lived it and I have seen others live it especially in the football world. Especially in football you see things happen much faster once you're in it 4-5 years.

In general, I think what you are referring to is called "Wisdom"

[Mastercheddaar]

His inaccurate passing is only exposed more so because of his lack of WR talent. Maybe if he had a reliable WR, some of his flaws would not be as exposed. Also it sucks when he does get it to the WR and they drop it. Either way, I wasn't thrilled when we selected him. I wanted one of the CB/S available at the time. I gave him a try, but a lot of you are correct. We have sailed the develop him into something boat and it promptly sunk in the harbor. Unless he does a complete 180 in the next 8 games, I say we move on. Sign a vet, keep Kessler and draft the best QB in the draft. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[DizzyDean]

5 hours ago, Dogbite said:

 

Yeah I am going to ignore it. I have been around along time and have seen far too many examples of the longer someone is in something the faster they process what they are seeing. Science has been a huge contradiction my entire life. When I was in grade school the earth was only 1 million years old the 50 years later it is somehow 65 million years old. I cannot think of anything off the top of my head right now by there are hundred of examples of science saying this is true....just kidding we were wrong but this is true now.......wait we were wrong that time too but believe us this is true this time.

I have lived it and I have seen others live it especially in the football world. Especially in football you see things happen much faster once you're in it 4-5 years.

Oh lord another flat earther.