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Around the NFL - 2022 edition


Forge

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16 hours ago, Forge said:

The Washington / niner game is going to end up being a big one for both teams

They have a pretty easy schedule the rest of the way as well. Dallas and 49ers the only heavy hitters left. 4 of their remaining 6 games are at home. Chase Young's return is on the horizon too. 

Really annoying that the 49ers at this point haven't broken away with as weak as the NFC is this year. 

Edited by TecmoSuperJoe
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Davis Mills and Zach Wilson both relegated to the bench... ive seen enough of Mills to know he will stick around the league as a backup for a very long time. 

But I haven't seen much of the Jets this year. Has he shown enough for another team to send any real trade comp & have him compete for a starting job?

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5 hours ago, adamq said:

Davis Mills and Zach Wilson both relegated to the bench... ive seen enough of Mills to know he will stick around the league as a backup for a very long time. 

But I haven't seen much of the Jets this year. Has he shown enough for another team to send any real trade comp & have him compete for a starting job?

Honestly hard to say. I mean, I think he has shown less than Darnold at this point and we have seen how that has turned out. But Darnold also got a pretty damn good return all things considered lol 

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

Honestly hard to say. I mean, I think he has shown less than Darnold at this point and we have seen how that has turned out. But Darnold also got a pretty damn good return all things considered lol 

There was always the gamble with Wilson, being basically a one year wonder@BYU. But throwing ability and arm talent was just too enticing to pass up in a sense. The book is still yet to be written though. He's young enough and inexperienced enough for this to be just a bump in the road. This will prove if he wants to be great bad enough. He has to put in the work behind the scenes and mature. He's officially been put on notice. The honeymoon's over. From here on out his play will dictate his value, not his potential. The critique will look and feel different coming from that angle. And he'll have to grin and bare it.

It'd be premature to look to move him at this juncture. You have to see how the offense looks under White to really start to entertain if he's still not looked at as 'the future', still.

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Zach Wilson has problems reading the coverages, going through reads, and using his feet.  His feet are the number one issue, they are highly inconsistent, and he bails far too often before he throws.  He needs to learn his keys before he can be put back onto the field.  I would give him a red shirt, and hope he can learn the offense and settle into the pocket.  

 

He was playing so consistently poor he left the Jets no choice, they had to make a move.

 

One year wonders in College can be risky, but they are not always bad.  Joe Burrow and Cam Newton were two good ones, hopefully Trey Lance ends up on the good side of that list.

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2 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

There was always the gamble with Wilson, being basically a one year wonder@BYU. But throwing ability and arm talent was just too enticing to pass up in a sense. The book is still yet to be written though. He's young enough and inexperienced enough for this to be just a bump in the road. This will prove if he wants to be great bad enough. He has to put in the work behind the scenes and mature. He's officially been put on notice. The honeymoon's over. From here on out his play will dictate his value, not his potential. The critique will look and feel different coming from that angle. And he'll have to grin and bare it.

It'd be premature to look to move him at this juncture. You have to see how the offense looks under White to really start to entertain if he's still not looked at as 'the future', still.

I don't know...with some guys 20 games is kind of all it takes. I'd be reticent to throw in the towel, but wouldn't be at all shocked if he's really just that bad. The fact that he's shown what appears to be 0 progress and growth is problematic. It's honestly difficult to look back and find a game that i would coin "good". 

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54 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't know...with some guys 20 games is kind of all it takes. I'd be reticent to throw in the towel, but wouldn't be at all shocked if he's really just that bad. The fact that he's shown what appears to be 0 progress and growth is problematic. It's honestly difficult to look back and find a game that i would coin "good". 

Yeah. He’s been so, so bad when not in quick game and throwing to his first read. His footwork is a mess. The last year at BYU, he had tremendous protection and settled and showed off that arm, but you get him in a place without dominant protection and he just doesn’t feel comfortable and tries to bail out the back and throw off his back foot sidearm all of the time. He’s got the Baker Mayfield syndrome on that front. Also at BYU, they had a lot of automatic checks to fades and back shoulder fades down the sidelines. In that way, he’s like Russell Wilson or Kyler Murray where they’re capable of these pretty crazy things down the sidelines and can run an offense with a lot of checks to those sort of plays, but you have to neuter your offense’s ability to attack the whole field in order to take advantage of the things that they do and avoid the things that they don’t. The Jets have done zero catering to Wilson’s preferences on this front. They don’t have a Deandre Hopkins or Davante Adams that loves that sort of game. They don’t throw those sorts of routes as checks at the line. 

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58 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't know...with some guys 20 games is kind of all it takes. I'd be reticent to throw in the towel, but wouldn't be at all shocked if he's really just that bad. The fact that he's shown what appears to be 0 progress and growth is problematic. It's honestly difficult to look back and find a game that i would coin "good". 

I can see that. But it also took awhile for the light to come on in college as well. I think that kind of pattern shouldn't be overlooked when it comes to assessing the enbs and flows of young QBs with short college resumes.

He was kind of a sandlot, off schedule guy in college. It takes those guys alot longer to find their way in a structured, pro style offense where mechanics, footwork and timing are downright critical for success. I think they'd be crazy to think he's shown all he can be at this point.  

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8 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I can see that. But it also took awhile for the light to come on in college as well. I think that kind of pattern shouldn't be overlooked when it comes to assessing the enbs and flows of young QBs with short college resumes.

He was kind of a sandlot, off schedule guy in college. It takes those guys alot longer to find their way in a structured, pro style offense where mechanics, footwork and timing are downright critical for success. I think they'd be crazy to think he's shown all he can be at this point.  

I do think that it’s funny that the Shanahan offense proliferation happened at the same time that everyone wanted the next Josh Allen or Patty Mahomes or Lamar Jackson. And for good reason - those guys are awesome and can stretch defenses past their breaking points on their own. You can build whole offenses out of their abilities. But the point of these Shanahan offenses is to do more with less physically. They allow you to take guys that point and click (especially over the middle of the field) and make them super efficient. So there’s a bunch of teams now with Last Action Hero quarterbacks that don’t really do the point and click as well (including our own young quarterback) who really haven’t jived with the systems that they’ve ended up in. Now, some teams figured it out. The Bears finally understood that Justin Fields is more Lamar Jackson than Matt Ryan and restructured their offense around him. 

I also think that right as the desire for those big armed extra physically gifted guys got to their highest after those guys shredded existing schemes with off schedule plays and deep shots, defenses adjusted to clamp down super hard on downfield passing with all of the Fangio classics - Palms, quarters, cover 6. Even a lot of old school Tampa 2. You can still get a couple shots downfield, but it requires more patience than Mahomes shredding all of the Seattle cover three clones in 2018. And now all of these physically gifted deep ball guys are having to operate a lot like Jimmy G most of the time. The rookies and sophomores have had a miserable time of it. A lot like they did in the past when there was a lot of 2 high safety stuff in the NFL. Patience takes some time and experience. 

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9 minutes ago, JIllg said:

I do think that it’s funny that the Shanahan offense proliferation happened at the same time that everyone wanted the next Josh Allen or Patty Mahomes or Lamar Jackson. And for good reason - those guys are awesome and can stretch defenses past their breaking points on their own. You can build whole offenses out of their abilities. But the point of these Shanahan offenses is to do more with less physically. They allow you to take guys that point and click (especially over the middle of the field) and make them super efficient. So there’s a bunch of teams now with Last Action Hero quarterbacks that don’t really do the point and click as well (including our own young quarterback) who really haven’t jived with the systems that they’ve ended up in. Now, some teams figured it out. The Bears finally understood that Justin Fields is more Lamar Jackson than Matt Ryan and restructured their offense around him. 

I also think that right as the desire for those big armed extra physically gifted guys got to their highest after those guys shredded existing schemes with off schedule plays and deep shots, defenses adjusted to clamp down super hard on downfield passing with all of the Fangio classics - Palms, quarters, cover 6. Even a lot of old school Tampa 2. You can still get a couple shots downfield, but it requires more patience than Mahomes shredding all of the Seattle cover three clones in 2018. And now all of these physically gifted deep ball guys are having to operate a lot like Jimmy G most of the time. The rookies and sophomores have had a miserable time of it. A lot like they did in the past when there was a lot of 2 high safety stuff in the NFL. Patience takes some time and experience. 

Also, at the same time, there are so many Shanahan-y offenses that the teams that still run the OG staples of regular outside zone and leak and sail and yankee are pretty darn screwed because everyone practices their butts off against those things all of the time and because defenses have had 5 years now to get wise. We don’t run those regular staples hardly at all any more (especially with Jimmy G because we hesitate to run play action with Jimmy G very often; Jimmy is just better when getting to see the defense throughout the play and when the defense is spread out. We ran a lot of those staples with Lance, whom the coaching staff trusted more to read the defense after turning his back to it, but less to pick apart a spread out defense on straight dropbacks). If we want to go outside zone, it’s a toss to get outside of 6 man line surfaces. We mix in power and pin and pull and have a GT RPO as one of our main staples. Heck, we run leak so little these days that the defense overcommitted to the front side of the play super hard and Kittle was open by 5+ yards and took it to the house. 

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