skywindO2 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 Cowboys draft board leak... Cine at 13! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ares Caesar Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 4 hours ago, skywindO2 said: Cowboys draft board leak... Cine at 13! Saw this while I was scrolling through Reddit and thought it was interesting. I think the most tangible takeaway from this is that it gives some credence to the Vikings feeling strongly about Cine as a "teens" value and that when he reached them at 32, rather than take a trade for the 32nd pick to potentially pick him at 34 instead, they must've felt that they had to take Cine at that point and the risk of not doing so was too great. Personally I'm more than willing to believe Cine was likely a highly rated player on many teams big boards and most likely slipped due to positional value and team needs compared to overall prospect rankings which may have had Cine above other players that were selected before him. Ultimately none of this really matters in the long run if he doesnt pan out as a very good player, but again I think the relevance is just in providing some reasoning to the Vikings intentions for taking Cine at 32 rather than moving back and taking at 34 (or later). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 13 hours ago, skywindO2 said: Cowboys draft board leak... Cine at 13! It basically corroborates exactly what KAM said in that they had Cine in the teens as well...and the only reason Cine was available at the end of the first was because of positional value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, swede700 said: It basically corroborates exactly what KAM said in that they had Cine in the teens as well...and the only reason Cine was available at the end of the first was because of positional value. I think we need to start thinking differently about safety and positional value. I think any position that overtly impacts the passing game is going to be a valuable position. In the box safeties, run stuffers, are not inherently valuable as their skill is a dime a dozen. Safeties that can either play slot coverage, or play deep coverage, are extremely valuable. look at this: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-using-pro-adjusted-wins-above-average-to-examine-positional-value-in-the-nfl-draft Position 2020 WAR QB 53.3 CB 26.9 S 25.3 WR 21.0 LB 9.86 EDGE 7.46 T 6.00 TE 5.37 G 4.89 DI 4.31 HB 2.99 C 2.53 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Great article here by Nick Olson on what Lewis Cine brings to the table. Includes gifs and all. I think Nick Olson and Matt Fries from the Kindred Skols podcast are two very talented content producers of Vikings related material so check them out if you guys wish. https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-vikings-news/what-lewis-cine-brings-to-the-vikings-defense/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidvikingfan Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 I've been looking into how the Fangio system that we will be running works and it makes the Cine pick even better. I'm really looking forward to how impactful Cine is going to be from the safety position. Hopefully a more athletic Justin Simmons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 hours ago, viking said: I've been looking into how the Fangio system that we will be running works and it makes the Cine pick even better. I'm really looking forward to how impactful Cine is going to be from the safety position. Hopefully a more athletic Justin Simmons. Lewis Cine's two best most impactful games of his career both came against Alabama in the SEC title and in the National Title. He had some big time hits in the run game, solid aggressive tackling and impressive deflections. Came down hill aggressively and filled the gap well despite not being a really big player. Is listed at 200 pounds but my guess is he played at 190 more often at Georgia. He arrived on the ball carrier quickly especially against Bama because Bama decided to block up the big guys first, Quay Walker, Travon Walker, Dean, Tindall, Davis etc. His lack of elite ball skills and coverage is a concern, he can cover well back to the QB but his ball awareness is not very impressive. Was in good position in coverage at times but did not always find the football, also I feel his play greatly was benefited by that great Georgia defense and all that was around him. His versatility is nice but to me no way is he in good in coverage as Daxton Hill the safety taken before him who could legit play CB, not sure Cine could play CB. Georgia was an attacking defense constantly pressuring the QB and getting to the QB, it made playing on the back end much easier because that front 7 was so great even without Adam Anderson in there. Cine could do ok for the Vikings if Z. Smith is healthy all year and dominating along with Hunter and if the NT can be a dominating force not sure Tomlinson is a NT type but could be better than he was last year out of position as a 4/3 DT. Harrison Smith though I honestly like him more roaming around and being around the line of scrimmage, and since Cine is probably better downhill that back deep in coverage that could be a problem. But maybe Harrison at his age wants to be back deep more but will see, sure they can mix it up and both can do it potentially. Will be interesting how Cine looks, because to me again two of the last games he ever played in college were his best against Bama, he did not always make that kind of impact throughout his entire college football career. Also helps he runs this blazing 40 time as well, say his 40 was in the 4.6 range, no way he is a 1st round pick. Justin Simmons, well he was a baller in college with outstanding ball skills and production in terms of getting his hands on the football, Cine not sure he is that type of playmaker but will see. And Simmons ran a 4.6 40, similar to Kyle Hamilton and clearly that has not hurt him in the NFL. But being on the best defense in the country helps and winning the National Title helps as well, will be curious how all these Georgia defenders do in the NFL. All of these dudes all peaked at the same time, Travon Walker, Jordan Davis, Wyatt, Tindall, Dean, Cine, Quay Walker etc all had career years all at the same exact time. Will be interesting what Georgia looks like next year, sure the secondary has proven players and should be good but that front seven, I seriously doubt they can be that great all over again with so many guys gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 6 hours ago, viking said: I've been looking into how the Fangio system that we will be running works and it makes the Cine pick even better. I'm really looking forward to how impactful Cine is going to be from the safety position. Hopefully a more athletic Justin Simmons. I enjoyed listening to Luke Braun’s assessment of his fit in this defense: basically we will have two safeties who will always start the play lined up deep, so since we want/need a safety to help stop the outside runs which gashed us last year, we need a safety with elite downfield trigger speed: that’s Cine. Still hate the trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) On 7/1/2022 at 4:40 PM, Duluther said: I enjoyed listening to Luke Braun’s assessment of his fit in this defense: basically we will have two safeties who will always start the play lined up deep, so since we want/need a safety to help stop the outside runs which gashed us last year, we need a safety with elite downfield trigger speed: that’s Cine. Still hate the trade. A little bit more value on the trade and I couldn't complain at all, but trading down with a division rival and handing them the best WR in the draft needs to be a haul. Hard to argue with drafting two first round talents in the secondary though Edited July 4, 2022 by viking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, viking said: A little bit more value on the trade and I couldn't complain at all, but trading down with a division rival and handing them the best WR in the draft needs to be a haul. Hard to argue with drafting two first round talents in the secondary though I'm shocked we didn't go for future compensation from Detroit. Or if we did I didn't see anything suggesting it. Edited July 4, 2022 by SteelKing728 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 I'm still flummoxed by people getting caught up in the compensation...after all, Jameson Williams could be an injury bust just like the last guy Detroit took when the Vikings traded with them...Jahvid Best. Who knows...and in the end, Williams may be a fine WR, but I'm not sure he'd go in the top 5 WRs of the 2020 Draft...and maybe even not last year as well. In a draft that had few elite players (who were all long gone by 12), but a lot of good ones, I'll take 4 picks in the top 70, especially when there has been a clear lack of depth on the team. In this case, Detroit and Green Bay got 2 WRs...who both may eventually end up being good...but I can't imagine either one is ever going to be JJ and I'm fairly confident that neither one will be much of a factor this year. I think we're going to get more out of Cine and Booth in the next 2 years than Detroit or GB will get out of them...and that'll be a change from what we've seen in the past few years with our rookies. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 On 7/5/2022 at 8:31 AM, swede700 said: I'm still flummoxed by people getting caught up in the compensation...after all, Jameson Williams could be an injury bust just like the last guy Detroit took when the Vikings traded with them...Jahvid Best. Who knows...and in the end, Williams may be a fine WR, but I'm not sure he'd go in the top 5 WRs of the 2020 Draft...and maybe even not last year as well. In a draft that had few elite players (who were all long gone by 12), but a lot of good ones, I'll take 4 picks in the top 70, especially when there has been a clear lack of depth on the team. In this case, Detroit and Green Bay got 2 WRs...who both may eventually end up being good...but I can't imagine either one is ever going to be JJ and I'm fairly confident that neither one will be much of a factor this year. I think we're going to get more out of Cine and Booth in the next 2 years than Detroit or GB will get out of them...and that'll be a change from what we've seen in the past few years with our rookies. I have no clue where you are coming from, Jameson Williams put up better numbers in that one year on Bama than Ruggs ever did or Jeudy, and if you just look at what he did last year he is a better prospect in terms of upside than both, especially considering his size and speed. And to say he would not have been picked over Jalen Reagor in the 2020 draft? Yeah right. Oh and he did that with a new QB who has never played in college football before, a bad OL and a pretty suspect 2nd option at WR for Bama. Sure that allowed him to get the ball more but considering the big play ability he showed the dude could be a great pro. But if you want to play the what if he gets injured card, Lewis Cine could easily get hurt, he is a very thin safety with a thin build in his upper and lower body, if he keeps being a big hitter, dude could hurt himself honestly on those hits. As for getting more out of Cine or Booth, sure that could happen but Booth dropped because of injury issues so to assume he will be good to go forever, not sure that is the case. Just like Jameson, Andrew Booth did not run at all, did not workout at the combine and did not workout at his pro day thus the fall. But sure it might not be a big deal but I could see both of those receivers playing very well against the Vikings over the next few years. Watson absolutely, because Green Bay needed an athletic WR to stretch the field and he is exactly what they needed, they basically got every other position set and only needed a WR and it does seem odd to just trade away a pick in order for them to get exactly what they want and for Detroit to get exactly what they want ontop of already getting Hutchinson earlier. Last time I checked Detroit had awful WR play last year.... Sure it might be fine but does seem very odd to do such a thing with TWO division rivals, and both provide a deep threat ability no one else on either roster Detroit or Green Bay provide, to say that will not matter well it does matter it matters greatly. Sure they might not always get the ball but if they show and threat that big play ability that completely changes how teams can defend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 If Williams still had the injury, he wouldn't have been taken before Ruggs or Jeudy. Reagor, iffy, certainly. But he's not an other-worldly talent. He has long speed, certainly, but he's going to need develop more than just long speed to be a top-shelf WR. He also needs to develop physically and who knows how far behind he will be in that capacity with the injury. Christian Watson, though, you like him a lot more than I do. I've never liked his game. I think, at best, he's Sidney Rice...and I was never a fan of Sidney Rice (I've made that fairly clear here in the past). Sidney Rice was never a #1 type of receiver and neither will Watson be. At best, he'll be a good #2, and that's not what the Packers need now. They need someone Rodgers can rely on, and I don't think Watson is that guy. It could be that I just wasn't overly impressed with this entire WR class. I would have been fine if the Vikings had taken Williams, but that would have been a luxury pick. But, am I upset that they allowed Detroit to? Absolutely not. He isn't going to be a factor until Halloween and I don't view him as a difference-maker. He would have been fine on the opposite of JJ for the next few years, but that's what he is going to be for me. Unlike Watson, he'll be a good #2 out of the gate, with the potential to be a good #1, but I don't view him as an elite talent. And I don't think he will be with Goff throwing to him. I could be surprised, but until Detroit proves that they can develop talent, I won't put my faith in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 4 hours ago, swede700 said: If Williams still had the injury, he wouldn't have been taken before Ruggs or Jeudy. Reagor, iffy, certainly. But he's not an other-worldly talent. He has long speed, certainly, but he's going to need develop more than just long speed to be a top-shelf WR. He also needs to develop physically and who knows how far behind he will be in that capacity with the injury. Christian Watson, though, you like him a lot more than I do. I've never liked his game. I think, at best, he's Sidney Rice...and I was never a fan of Sidney Rice (I've made that fairly clear here in the past). Sidney Rice was never a #1 type of receiver and neither will Watson be. At best, he'll be a good #2, and that's not what the Packers need now. They need someone Rodgers can rely on, and I don't think Watson is that guy. It could be that I just wasn't overly impressed with this entire WR class. I would have been fine if the Vikings had taken Williams, but that would have been a luxury pick. But, am I upset that they allowed Detroit to? Absolutely not. He isn't going to be a factor until Halloween and I don't view him as a difference-maker. He would have been fine on the opposite of JJ for the next few years, but that's what he is going to be for me. Unlike Watson, he'll be a good #2 out of the gate, with the potential to be a good #1, but I don't view him as an elite talent. And I don't think he will be with Goff throwing to him. I could be surprised, but until Detroit proves that they can develop talent, I won't put my faith in it. Obviously you just dislike Williams and Watson was WR prospects coming out thus you undervalue what they potentially could bring to Detroit and Green Bay because you do not like either one to begin with. That is fine. Fact is very few guys run that fast and are that tall, Watson is a legit 6-4 and ran a blazing 4.36 40 with a 38.5" vertical jump, very few receivers in the NFL are that tall and that fast and clearly he will be hard to cover and I say again he gives Green Bay what they need, a deep threat WR which they do not have at the moment. Same with the Lions, Williams is not as tall but has long arms and good size for a WR and is probably even faster than Watson is my bet when healthy. Speed kills and I just feel both will do more than fine, and the Vikings sure do not face them weekly but they will face them all total 4 times a year for the next 3-4 year. Just seems very odd, to trade with two division rivals in the same freaking draft giving them the same player in a way that plays the same position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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